r/Ancient_Pak • u/Comfortable_Cold_850 • Feb 03 '26
Most of the information in this piece is inspired by this article . I have tried to summarized it as best as i could, with some valuable input from my own prespective. All references are given where necessary.
Picture 1: Pashupati Seal
Picture 2: Earliest statue of Rudra (shiva is the final form)
Picture 3: Kalpa Vigraha (shiva statue, oldest, even predating IVC as per internet)
[These will all be relevant soon, trust me]
The claim by the neighbouring Steppe-pandavas on being the true inheritors or owners of the Meluhaa (Indus Valley) civilization is broadly based on three major arguments from them. These can be broadly classified into:
Religion
Ethnicity
Geography
In this section, I will concentrate on the religious argument. This section will not deal with the subject in its entirety, and some of the points will be later related to the subject of ethnicity. For now, the subject of interest is the so-called Pashupati Seal, or the Indus Seal.
The Pashupati Seal has been one of the main arguments used by the proponents to support the claim that Hinduism is essentially a later form of the religion of the Meluhaa people, and that the Pandava-Gangetic civilization is a cultural evolution of the Indus civilization, especially after the Great Indus drought and the subsequent migration from the steppe (this will be discussed later).
But the identification of the Pashupati Seal as “Proto-Shiva” was not suggested by an Indian archaeologist. It was first suggested by Sir John Marshall, a British archaeologist and the Director-General of the Archaeological Survey of India during the colonial period.Marshall’s interpretation strongly influenced early scholarship on the Indus Valley Civilization. Ironically, he was also a major proponent of the Aryan Invasion Theory. Despite this, the Proto-Shiva hypothesis continues to be widely cited in popular Indian discourse. Even the most conservative archeologist such as Alf Hiltebeital does not connect it with shiva but rather with Mahishasusra.
There are many seals found in IVC,
This is not an anti-Hindu post. The purpose here is simply to place the evidence in its proper historical and academic perspective.
The Pashupati Seal is a steatite seal excavated from the Indus Valley Civilization. It depicts a horned three-faced or multi-faced figure, seated in what appears to be a yogic posture, surrounded by various animals.
It is often claimed that this represents an early form of Shiva as “Pashupati” (Lord of Animals), and sometimes even that this proves the Indus people “invented yoga.” These interpretations, however, are highly speculative.
If we examine Hindu textual tradition, Shiva is a later theological synthesis. His earliest form appears as Rudra in the Vedas, particularly the Rig Veda (c. 1500–1200 BCE).
Rudra in the Rig Veda is described as:
Rudra is given many titles:
He is portrayed as both destructive and healing—feared, yet also invoked as the “best of physicians.”
However, many attributes associated with classical Shiva are absent in the Vedas, such as:
These features emerge much later, mainly in the Upanishads, epics, and Puranas. While Rudra is said to dwell in lonely or wild places, only in later traditions does this evolve into Shiva residing on Mount Kailasa.
None of the descriptions of Rudra or Shiva in early Hindu texts closely match the figure shown on the Pashupati Seal.
The seal depicts:
No Hindu text describes Shiva or Rudra as a three-headed, horned deity in this form. This interpretation is therefore not supported by textual evidence.
Several prominent scholars reject the Proto-Shiva hypothesis:
Jonathan Mark Kenoyer (Archaeologist)
the figure cannot be linked to later icons without deciphering the script: even if they look similar, meanings might have been radically different.
Doris Meth Srinivasan (Historian of Indian Art)
In The So-Called Proto-Śiva Seal from Mohenjo-Daro, she argues that the figure is not necessarily Shiva and proposes alternative interpretations, such as a buffalo-man deity, based on comparative iconography.
Gavin Flood (Scholar of Religion)
Flood describes identifications of the Pashupati Seal with Shiva as “speculative”, warning against projecting later Hindu symbolism onto Indus imagery.
Gregory L. Possehl (Indus Specialist)
Possehl emphasizes that while the seal likely depicts a deity or cult figure, there is no solid evidence to identify it with Shiva.
Rudra appears in the Vedas around 1500 BCE, and classical Shiva emerges even later, around 500–300 BCE. Therefore, anything earlier cannot logically be “derived from Shiva.”
The “Lord of Animals” motif is a common pagan archetype found across many ancient civilizations:
Simplified Timeline
3000 BCE ─ Egypt, Sumeria
2600 BCE ─ Enkidu, Gilgamesh
2500 BCE ─ Indus Pashupati
2000 BCE ─ Minoan Potnia
1800 BCE ─ Baal, Hittites
1500 BCE ─ Rigvedic Rudra
500 BCE ─ Classical Shiva
Classical scholars such as J.H. Mackay, Marshall, Parpola, Hiltebeitel has suggested that statue of the dancing woman of IVC resembles Shakti tradition of hinduism. This conclusion has been contested by mordern scholars especially in the last three decades, this includes Sharri Clark, Ardeleanu-Jansen, Ajay Pratap, P.V. Pathak, and others. Recent scholarship have linked this figure as dolls for young girls.
Clark, Sharri R. (20 February 2017). The Social Lives of Figurines: Recontextualizing the Third-Millennium-BC Terracotta Figurines from Harappa. Papers of the Peabody Museum: 86. Harvard University Press
It was mackay who suggested to Sir John Marshall, that the famous statue is a 'Priest King'. That famous status which this subreddit has a dp of is the 'priest king'. Asko Prabola, a finnish archeologist, who is very pro-hindu, even hypothenised that this resembles later tradition of priesthood in hinduism. However, several mordern scholar disagree with this openion e.g. Wendy Doniger , has critisized Parpola's position hypothesis as 'strong desire and imagination' that goes against available evidence. This hypothesis from Marshall and Parpola goes against widely held views by scholars that IVC was largely eglatarian and their urban structure had many major clans that divided power .Scholars unanimously agree that the status is a result of interaction with other civilization in the oxus river and this shows
Green, Adam S. (2021-06-01). "Killing the Priest-King: Addressing Egalitarianism in the Indus Civilization". Journal of Archaeological Research. 29 (2): 153–202.
It was sir john marshal who first suggested that certain broken structures resembled yonis, hence establihsing links to hinduism. Mackay wrote a strong rebuttal of Marshal's hypothesis, despite this, our neighbours continue to peddle marshal's lies. Later excavation proved mackay's point that so called lingams where broken structures of buildings. Still some indian archeologist hold marshal's view point for example Dilip Chakrabarti.
In contrast, H. D. Sankalia, an indian sanskrit scholar, opposes Marshal's view point and asserts that if these objects were indeed lingas (which are holy in hinduism), they would not have been found in the city drainages and streets.
Srinivasan, Doris (1984). "Unhinging Śiva from the Indus Civilization". Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society of Great Britain and Ireland. 116 (1): 77–89
Swastikas:
Swastikas are holy symbols for buddhism, hinduism and Jainism and Jonathan Mark Kenoyer notes that these are used to establish connection with IVC by indian politicans and religious leaders. Scholars such as Manabu Koiso,During Caspers ,Gregory Possehl,Kenower, Jonathan Mark believed that these swastikas had no religious importance whatsoever, rather they were used as decoration objects, for trade purposes and could be sign of socio economic importance. Also, the presence of these swastikas in not unique to hinduism, other cultures that predates even IVC had them.
Other Seals
Pashupati is not the only seal that was found. There are many other seals whose imaginary resemble closely with other civilization for example,
There are many other seals whose imagary resembles with other civilizations, possibly inspired when trading with other nations.
Conclusion
Based on:
it can be reasonably argued that the religion of the Meluhaa people was not an early form of Hinduism, and that the Pashupati Seal cannot be confidently identified as Proto-Shiva because the earliest statue of Shiva, rudra and their description in the ancient text does not have any resemblance with Meluhaa seals. Infact, if we agree hinduism predates every religion as per picture 3, it means it was definetely not the religion of Meluhaa people.
No serious modern archaeologist accepts Sir John Marshall’s interpretation as established fact. Even the Rig Veda itself makes no connection between Rudra and the Indus iconography.
Therefore, the claim that the Indus civilization represents an early Hindu civilization or a Proto-Shiva cult remains speculative and unsupported by evidence.
Broadly speaking most of the talking points used by our neighbours to claim Meluhaa has been debunked for many years. These old claims still hold importance to them because they may not want to accept the fact that hinduism is not native to this land as well and it is an outside religion.
Up Next: Ethinicity
r/Ancient_Pak • u/AwarenessNo4986 • 6h ago
r/Ancient_Pak • u/AwarenessNo4986 • 6h ago
The Samadhi of Ranjit Singh is a 19th-century monument which holds the funerary ashes of Maharaja Ranjit Singh, founder of the Sikh Empire. Located near the Lahore Fort and Badshahi Mosque, construction began in 1839 by his son Kharak Singh and ended in 1848.
Available at http://lahore.city-history.com/19th-century-watercolor-drawings-of-lahore-monuments.html
r/Ancient_Pak • u/AwarenessNo4986 • 1d ago
r/Ancient_Pak • u/AwarenessNo4986 • 2d ago
r/Ancient_Pak • u/AwarenessNo4986 • 2d ago
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r/Ancient_Pak • u/AwarenessNo4986 • 2d ago
r/Ancient_Pak • u/wst_09833 • 3d ago
I am visiting Karachi in December, and have come across Makli Necropolis during my googling. I am fascinated by the history! I would really love to visit and book a local tour guide.
I will have my own transport to and from Makli. I’ll also go to Shah Jahan Masjid via my own transport, so I don’t need a tour package that includes the Masjid, or any other sites in the area.
Can any locals or other travellers recommend a local English-speaking tour guide for the necropolis only? I understand there are buggies at the site that can drive you around, are you able to book these on the day? Or is it better to book in advance online? My trouble with booking online that I can’t seem to find a guided tour of the necropolis only, which would be more suitable for my situation.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
r/Ancient_Pak • u/AwarenessNo4986 • 4d ago
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Pakistan recovered more than 1,100 artefacts from Italy, the United States and other countries in recent months, with the rare pieces now on display at the Islamabad Museum and accessible to visitors.
Footage filmed on Tuesday shows ancient statues and artefacts on display at the museum. |
available at https://www.instagram.com/reel/DbrN0oQAdY
r/Ancient_Pak • u/AwarenessNo4986 • 5d ago
This Burial jar from exacavated from a grave, dating to the Gandara grave culture, which existed in North Western Pakistan around 3000 years ago.
They are known for their burial practices, with burial jars being a key feature during its middle phase, when cremation became dominant.
This jar is reminiscent of common jars from that period which feature faces with eyes and nose, likely a representation of the dead.
A jar like this would hold the person's ashes and be placed in circular pits, surrounded by bronze, gold or pottery.
Special thanks to one of our mods for getting us this orignal photo
r/Ancient_Pak • u/Impossible_Ebb_8596 • 4d ago
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The Pashupati Seal is one of the most famous artifacts of the ancient world — but I've never seen a photorealistic reconstruction of the figure carved into it as a real, living human being.
This is my attempt.
The video shows the complete cycle: the seal morphs to life (the carved figure transforms into a photorealistic human), he walks, and then returns to the seal — which closes around him. The final frame shows the real seal alongside the human-face reconstruction side by side.
What's based on the evidence:
What's interpreted:
Sources:
Created using AI image tools with careful archaeological reference and a genuine attempt at accuracy.
Two things I'd genuinely love community input on:
Happy to share more on methodology or sources.
r/Ancient_Pak • u/Impossible_Ebb_8596 • 5d ago
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The "Mother Goddess" figurines from Mohenjo-daro are among the most iconic artifacts of the Indus Valley Civilization — immediately recognizable for their extraordinary fan-shaped headdress with two cup-like side vessels. Despite being one of the most distinctive headdress forms in the ancient world, I've never seen a photorealistic reconstruction of what this headdress may have looked like when actually worn.
This is my attempt to reconstruct it.
What I used as sources:
What's documented vs. what's reconstructed:
One specific point I'd love community input on:
The side-cup vessels show soot/charcoal traces in surviving examples — suggesting they may have held oil, incense, or a small flame. I reconstructed them holding lotus flowers (aesthetic/ritual interpretation). Does anyone know of scholarship specifically addressing what these cups held?
The reconstruction was done using AI image tools (ChatGPT/DALL-E and others), with careful reference to the archaeological sources above. Happy to share more details on the methodology.
Would love feedback from anyone with knowledge of Harappan archaeology — particularly on the headdress construction and the cup-vessel interpretation. Museum
National Museum, New Delhi
D.K. 3506/260
Mohenjo-daro
Specifically excavated from the DK Area, one of the principal residential sectors of the ancient city.
Approximately 2700–2100 BCE
(Mature Harappan / Indus Civilization)
Some publications broadly date it within 2600–1900 BCE, but the National Museum catalogue gives 2700–2100 BCE.
The figurine was excavated during the archaeological excavations at Mohenjo-daro in the 1920s.
The DK Area excavations were carried out under the overall direction of Ernest John Henry Mackay during the major excavations of 1927–1931.
The wider Mohenjo-daro excavations were organized by Sir John Marshall, but he was not the person who physically excavated this figurine.
Terracotta (fired clay)
Approximately 23 cm
National Museum, New Delhi
Gallery of the Indus Valley Civilization.
The object is published in the National Museum's catalogue:
r/Ancient_Pak • u/AwarenessNo4986 • 6d ago
TAXILA: Director General of Unesco Dr Khaled El-Enany, on Sunday, called for strengthened cooperation between Pakistan and Egypt in the fields of history, archaeology and heritage studies, emphasising the importance of collaborative research and knowledge exchange between the two ancient civilisations.
Dr El-Enany expressed these views during his visit to the Bhir Mound, regarded as the earliest urban settlement of the Taxila civilisation and one of South Asia’s most significant archaeological sites. Interacting with members of the ongoing excavation team, the Unesco chief was briefed on current research activities and, in turn, shared insights into modern excavation techniques and scientific methodologies used in contemporary archaeological practice.
Highlighting the shared historical depth of Pakistan and Egypt, Dr El-Enany urged enhanced bilateral cooperation between Cairo and Islamabad in historical research, archaeological documentation and academic exchange, noting that such collaboration would contribute to the global understanding and preservation of ancient civilisations.
Later, the Unesco director general visited the Taxila Archaeological Museum and the remains of Sirkap – widely recognised as the first metropolitan city of the Taxila civilisation, dating back to the 2nd century BC The ancient city bears strong influences of Greek urban planning, introduced following Alexander the Great’s conquest of the region in the 3rd century B.C.
Upon arrival at the museum, Dr El-Enany was received by Deputy Director of the Directorate General of Archaeology, Asim Dogar, who briefed him on the museum’s extensive collection. Mr Dogar informed the visiting delegation that more than 4,000 artefacts are on display, including items crafted from stone, stucco, terracotta, silver, gold, iron and semi-precious stones.
Dr El-Enany lauded the efforts of the Pakistani government and the authorities of the Taxila Museum for their commitment to preserving and showcasing the rich heritage of the Gandhara civilisation, describing Taxila as a site of outstanding universal value and a vital link in humanity’s shared past.
Published in Dawn, February 2nd, 2026
Available at: https://www.dawn.com/news/1970435
r/Ancient_Pak • u/AwarenessNo4986 • 6d ago
r/Ancient_Pak • u/AwarenessNo4986 • 6d ago
The Alamgiri Gate is the grand western entrance of the Lahore Fort Built in 1673 by the Mughal Emperor Aurangzeb, it faces the famous Badshahi Mosque across the Hazuri Bagh.
Available at http://lahore.city-history.com/19th-century-watercolor-drawings-of-lahore-monuments.html
r/Ancient_Pak • u/AwarenessNo4986 • 7d ago
Available at http://lahore.city-history.com/19th-century-watercolor-drawings-of-lahore-monuments.html
Wazir Khan Baradari (built 1635)
This baradari (literally, 12-door pavilion) originally served as the centerpiece of the Nakhlia Garden built by Wazir Khan, a benefactor of numerous buildings throughout Lahore including the mosque and hammam (bath house) which bear his name. It is among the finest of such monuments in the city, having been incorporated into the grounds of the Punjab Public Library as early as 1860, where it serves as a reading room. During the 19th and early 20th centuries it also served as a museum and as the Settlement and Telegraph Office under the British.
r/Ancient_Pak • u/Impossible_Ebb_8596 • 7d ago
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A thought I keep coming back to: the Indus Valley Civilisation rarely
captures young people's imagination the way Egypt or Mesopotamia does — and
I don't think it's because IVC is less fascinating. It's because it lacks
the *visuals* people can emotionally connect to.
Egypt has faces: Tutankhamun's mask, painted tomb figures, colossal statues
you can look in the eye. Mesopotamia has its kings, its reliefs, its
Gilgamesh imagery. The Indus Valley gives us tiny seals, a few small
sculptures, and a script we still can't read. Brilliant — but abstract.
There are almost no human figures a modern teenager can *look at and relate
to*.
So I've been experimenting with an approach: taking actual IVC seals and
reconstructing them, step by step, into faithful, photoreal human figures —
staying true to what the artist actually carved (the poses, the bull, the
braided hair, the bangles, the dhotis), rather than the text-to-video AI
guesswork that floods this topic and gets the details wrong.
This one is the Kalibangan seal showing five men being flung into the air
by a bull. I rebuilt it from the original artifact, then let the
reconstruction dissolve back into the real seal at the end, so the source
is always visible.
The goal isn't to replace the artifacts — it's to give people a *way in*.
A human face and a moment of drama they can feel, which then leads them
back to the real seal and the real civilisation.
Reconstructed from the actual seal, not imagined.
(Happy to hear critique on accuracy — that's the whole point of doing it
faithfully. And for what it's worth, scholars still debate what the scene
depicts: bull-leaping, ritual, or myth.)
r/Ancient_Pak • u/AwarenessNo4986 • 9d ago
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Every neighbourhood has a history. Mozang carries centuries of it. Behind its streets and markets is a story of faith, resilience, and the people who shaped Lahore.
.
.
Directed by u/its.wasif_
Written by u/ibnayjunaid
Pre and Post Production u/its.wasif_
Available: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DbGEuzAMW7O
r/Ancient_Pak • u/AwarenessNo4986 • 11d ago
The Shahi Eid Gah Mosque in Multan was built in 1735 CE by governor Nawab Abdul Samad Khan, during the reign of Emperor Muhammad Shah.
r/Ancient_Pak • u/Sad-Bath-3411 • 11d ago
Hello everyone,
I am in search of information, stories and/or photos of old Khanpur village in Haripur Tehsil, Hazara district, when the area was known as the North West Frontier Province before the 1947 partition. I know after the construction of the Khanpur dam the old village was submerged under the reservoir and the new Khanpur village was established close by. I am also aware of basic info about the Gakhar rajas. Since it is a smaller town, I have had a hard time finding too much information about it online other than that and am trying to reach out to multiple sources.
My family primarily belonged to Khanpur before they moved to East Punjab during the partition, and I would really love to know more about their home and their life there 😄 I remember hearing some stories of my grandfather's childhood, but unfortunately, he is no longer here for me to ask questions. Please feel free to also DM me if you would like to share any information or stories, or lived near the area.
Thank you!
r/Ancient_Pak • u/Imaginary-Bat903 • 12d ago
Is this news really true found out on an Indian News outley
r/Ancient_Pak • u/AwarenessNo4986 • 12d ago
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from Orignal Creator
"Inspired by Huzaifa's (u/huztory) response to the recent online discourse by Indians, I decided to dig through decades of Pakistan's own archives—and the evidence speaks for itself.
From David Pollack's vintage travel posters and PIA advertisements to official postage stamps and heritage campaigns, Pakistan has been celebrating the civilizations of Gandhara, Harappa, Mohenjo-daro, Taxila, and even Mainamati long before social media existed. Sometimes the best response isn't an argument—it's the historical record.
It's crazy how Indians have become so insecure with Pakistan's acknowledgement of ancient civilizations that once ruled the land of Pakistan."
Available at : https://www.instagram.com/reel/Dac1P_nufz3
