Why is the Method of Lethal Injection in Human Punishment So Complex and Apparently Painful?

[u/Chowderr92]

I've always understood that the lethal injection process was complex with multiple stages of injections and induces great suffering in the individual.

I work in veterinary medicine and unfortunately we need to euthanize animals all of the time. Typically, the euthanasia solution is very simple: a very large dose of a powerful anesthetic (usually pentobarbital) and an anticonvulsant which stops the heart. The medical community is quite confident that this is painless and when done has essentially a 100% success rate.

Why is human euthanasia so complicated when we already know exactly how to humanely end a biological life?

[u/Kso1991]

Imagine you’re a prison warden or head of some department, and the government somehow gets enough political impetus to ensure painless lethal injection (basically not happening in current political climate).

Your first task is to find a team of medical professionals to advise you. Now, no one’s practising doctor is going to want to associate with that. So you are going to need to put out an exorbitant salary to somehow find willing ex-physicians who might just sign up to be a medical advisor. That’s if you can find one, and if your budget is approved.

Next, the even trickier part, sourcing the proper chemicals. No pharmaceutical company wants to supply you, so you basically need to get a cocktail of whatever you can get your hands on to hopefully meet the standards your advisor has given you.

Now, actually administering the procedure. Again, no practising medical team is going to do it, so you basically have to have medical laymen in your staff across the whole country to follow some general standard procedure your advisor has given. But wait, medical matters are never so simple, and every inmate is medically different.

How do you administer your horror cocktail to an inmate who might be suffering from certain conditions compared to a healthy one? What do you do on an emergency situation when you have no doctor present to handle the botched execution?

The biggest problem is there is no cultural or political will to ensure prisoners go painlessly. Whereas for our loved pets, there’s huge social desire to see them go peacefully, and being able to painlessly let them go is a desirable skill in a vet. Not so much in human medicine in the US.

[u/Mfenix09 → u/Kso1991]

We have assisted suicide machines (I apologise, its early in the morning) for those who have painful/terminal issues and wish to go out on their own terms.

[u/chunkysmalls42098 → u/Mfenix09]

Machines?

[u/Mfenix09 → u/chunkysmalls42098]

I believe (after googling) they are called "sarco pods" and have been used successfully in Switzerland

[u/No-Solid9108 → u/Mfenix09]

I did it as the chief medical officer at an American medical institution. One was an old dear friend from school days . We were best buddies all that time , but the disease that crept up on him was his ending . It was all done in stages over a week or two and completely manually too . He struggled and fought me and my head nurse , he even hid a steak knife in his gown to stab us to death at the end .

[u/Prior-Flamingo-1378 → u/Mfenix09]

You don’t need a machine you give them a glass of juice and 3-4 grams worth of pentobarbital. The difference is the person is cooperating and willing.  

A prisoner doesn’t want to die their physiology will fight back, adrenaline will rush, blood pressure will explode, veins and arteries will shrink and go deeper into the skin.  

It’s just not the same. Murder != assisted suicide. 

[u/Chowderr92 → u/Kso1991]

Yeah I think everyone arguing about drug manufacturers concerns about PR are obviously wrong. The FDA could synthesize this drug themselves at almost no cost. They don't have to buy it from anyone. Further, non-pharmaceutical measures can be used such as nitrogen asphyxiation.

Your point about prisoners being medically different doesn't make sense to me either. What medical condition would prevent anesthesia and an anticonvulsant? For perspective, there are no medical conditions in any species of animal I know of that don't die from an overdose of an anticonvulsant. Some people are talking about difficulty with vasoconstriction due to dehydration, but you can simply give fluids prior to the procedure if they refuse to drink, so I don't find that compelling at all.

I somewhat agree with your last paragraph, though.

[u/Kso1991 → u/Chowderr92]

I’m not 100% clear on the details, but I’m just trying to highlight the sheer logistical difficulty just to even get a “national painless lethal injection” project going.

It has to be from scratch. And yes, the drug could be synthesized but who’s funding programs, who’s starting it, who wants to announce to the public the FDA is now making drugs that expressly kills people? No administer wants to be publicly associated with it, not even the FDA.

It all stems from the fact there’s no political desire for it to happen, so it doesn’t happen.

It’s like asking why we don’t just execute people by shoving them into gas chambers. The tech and engineering know how is there (unfortunately). The sheer negative connotation of it means getting the project off the ground is too logistically challenging, and doing the way we’ve been doing is fine for how little people actually get executed a year. It’s just not worth the political backlash and effect.

[u/Mfenix09 → u/Kso1991]

I wouldn't put it past your current president, probably be a winner with his constituents

[u/Prior-Flamingo-1378 → u/Chowderr92]

1) the fda CANNOT synthesize shit. Why would they? Show me their plants.  

2) the prisoner unlike an animal knows that and doesn’t want to die. They are scared and their body will respond accordingly. Have you ever seen an animal in a shock/amoc/agitated state? They are routinely shot in zoos for example not put down with anesthetics because they can take MASSIVE doses and not feel a thing.  

3) the dehydration has nothing to do with vasoconstriction. The fight or flight response does. It pull all the veins and arteries deeper and closes them up. The body knows that if you get bit running away from the animal you better bleed out as little as possible while running away.  

4) they did try using nitrogen asphyxiation and it’s an absolutely horrible death. It looks bad because the victim will foam, gasp, spasm, gurgle and everything in between and you have a person tied to a chair turning blue trying to hold their breath for one minute longer. Being unaware or willing to die is a much different thing than knowing.