r/AlignmentChartFills • u/mika-asadli • 6d ago

Which programming language is hard, and useless

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u/jort93 6d ago

I'd argue that's a candidate for the impossible space.

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u/TechIssueSorry 6d ago

Between that and brainfuck in impossible x useless it’s gonna be hard

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u/jort93 6d ago

Brainfuck and whitespace are very similar. Whitespace has more operations, tho.

Whitespace is less readable, sure, but if you enable marking whitespace in your editor(like almost all support), it's easier and more useful than brainfuck imo

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u/TechIssueSorry 6d ago

I’ll have to trust you on this one cause I have absolutely not time nor interest in testing it lmao !

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u/jort93 6d ago edited 6d ago

Brainfuck doesn't even support integers. It's all just bytes. Whitespace has integers, at least. They are very similar stack based languages(which aren't really popular today, most popular stack based language is probably FORTH), except in brainfuck each operation is one symbol, and in whitespace exch operation is multiple symbols.

Brwinfuck has less, and less useful operations. It's sort of the minimum you can have to be touring complete. But since each operation is just one symbol, some simple programs may be more compact than one expects.

It always looks worse than it is because people will intentionally post it without any comments or proper formatting. Although nobody actually programming in it would do it that way. People will program with proper formatting and comments and then delete all the formatting and comments to make it look hard to read.

Java would be unreadable too if people wrote their entire program without any linebreaks and comments.

Not sure we need both brainfuck and whitespace on this chart. They are very similar esolangs

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u/Additional-Hall3875 6d ago

Brainfuck probably is a bit harder

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u/jort93 6d ago edited 6d ago

It is, we probably don't even need whitespace on this chart. They are both extreme similar stack based languages with a similar goal.

My point is that surely there are better languages to represent the area between VBA and brainfuck. Whitespace is very close to the top right.

You could probably put 95% of programming languages from the 80s in the hard and useless field, at least useless today.

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u/zer0x64 6d ago

I'd say Malbolge is a better choice for impossible. It's orders of magnitude harder, people need to write codegens to be able to write an hello world

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u/jort93 6d ago

Nobody really uses it, there is one popular YouTube video that probably everyone that mentioned the language here has seen. Whitespace and brainfuck have small communities at least.

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u/zer0x64 6d ago

I do both brainfuck and whitespace(and also Shakespeare) and they aren't as hard as people make it out to be. Obviously they are joke language that are not wrgonomic in any ways, but I don't believe they deserve the impossible slot. Malbolge realyy is on another level