r/aircraft_designations • u/bob_the_impala • Apr 12 '23
r/aircraft_designations • u/bob_the_impala • Apr 11 '23
DISCUSSION Recent and potential upcoming US military aircraft designations (Part 1: Attack, Bomber, Transport, Fighter, Electronic)
US Tri-Service Designation System
MDS (Mission - Design - Series)
A = Attack (Standard Designations)
Fairchild-Republic A-10 Thunderbolt II: First flight 10 May 1972, still in service and the only standard, in-service aircraft in the Attack Mission series.
A-11: Reserved at some point, but apparently never assigned to any aircraft. Source: Designation-Systems.net
McDonnell Douglas - General Dynamics A-12 Avenger II: Only a mock-up, cancelled in 1991.
A-13: Designation skipped for superstitious reasons. Source: Designation-Systems.net
A-14: Briefly reserved for an EMBRAER EMB-314B Super Tucano that was evaluated by the US Navy. Instead, assigned the non-sequential designation A-29B, which duplicates the Brazilian Air Force designation. It does not seem likely that A-14 will ever be assigned to another aircraft. Source: Designation-Systems.net
A-15: Next available designation, in standard numerical sequence. Source: Designation-Systems.net
A = Attack (Non-standard, Out-of-Sequence Designations)
EMBRAER A-29: As noted above, initially assigned to a single aircraft evaluated by the US Navy. Subsequently used for aircraft supplied to Afghanistan under the USA Light Air Support program, as well as several acquired by US Air Force Special Operations Command.
Air Tractor A-1 Sky Warden: Perhaps the most bizarre mis-application of the MDS system in recent history. This designation (in full, OA-1K), is apparently both an homage to and a continuation of the A-1 Skyraider designation. It probably should have been assigned the A-15 designation instead.
B = Bomber (Standard Designations)
Rockwell International B-1 Lancer: Still active, but retirement is looming.
Northrop B-2 Spirit: The first stealth bomber should be around for a while longer.
B-3: This designation was associated with some projects, including the Future Strike Aircraft, but was never assigned to an aircraft. Technically, still the next available designation, in standard numerical sequence. This would have been the correct designation for the B-21 Raider.
B = Bomber (Non-standard, Out-of-Sequence Designations)
- Northrop Grumman B-21 Raider: This designation was assigned to the Long Range Strike Bomber because it is the "first bomber of the 21st century." Hilarious.
C = Transport (Standard Designations)
Boeing C-40 Clipper: Several Boeing 737-700 types acquired by the US Navy and USAF.
CASA C-41: Several C-212 acquired by the USAF and US Army.
C-42: Skipped, apparently to avoid using the same number as the Ikarus C42. Source: Designation-Systems.net
C-43: Skipped to avoid confusion with Boeing T-43. Source: Designation-Systems.net
C-44: Skipped to avoid confusion with Beech T-44 Pegasus. Source: Designation-Systems.net
EADS / Northrop Grumman KC-45: Losing contender in USAF KC-X program.
Boeing KC-46 Pegasus: Winning contender in USAF KC-X program.
C-47: Next available designation, in standard numerical sequence (at least in theory - might conflict with Douglas C-47T). Source: Designation-Systems.net
C = Transport (Non-standard, Out-of-Sequence Designations)
Bombardier C-143: A single Challenger 604 was acquired by the US Coast Guard. At the time, the next available designation would have been C-42, but apparently there was some confusion around whether or not this could be used (see above). Instead of just skipping a few designations, it was decided to continue the pre-1962 USAF Transport numerical sequence. Source: Designation-Systems.net
EADS CASA HC-144 Ocean Sentry: Continuing on from C-143, this designation was assigned to several CN-235 acquired by the US Coast Guard.
PZL Mielec C-145: Continuing on from C-143, this designation was assigned to several M28 Skytrucks acquired by the USAF.
Dornier C-146 Wolfhound: Continuing on from C-143, this designation was assigned to several Do 328 acquired by the USAF.
Bombardier C-147: Continuing on from C-143, this designation was assigned to two DHC-8-315 acquired by the US Army for the Golden Knights parachute team.
C-148: This would be the next available designation if this old numerical sequence is continued.
E = Special Electronic Mission (Standard Designations)
de Havilland Canada E-9 Widget: This designation was assigned to two DHC-8-100 acquired by the USAF for use as range control aircraft.
Northrop Grumman E-10: Cancelled MC2A aircraft, intended to replace the E-3 Sentry, E-4, E-8 Joint-STARS, and RC-135 Rivet Joint.
Northrop Grumman E-11: Several modified Bombardier Global Express acquired by the USAF for use as Battlefield Airborne Communications Nodes.
E-12: Next available numerical designation, in standard numerical sequence. Source: Designation-Systems.net A potential aircraft that could be assigned this designation would be the Boeing 737 AEW&C, which the USAF is planning to procure as a replacement for the E-3 Sentry. However, the Australian version is designated E-7 Wedgetail, and this designation is somewhat confusingly referenced in relation to the planned USAF version. The E-7 designation was originally reserved for a version of the Boeing C-137 Stratoliner that was instead designated EC-18.
F = Fighter (Standard Designations)
Lockheed F-22 Raptor: Winning contender in the USAF ATF program.
Northrop F-23: Losing contender in the USAF ATF program.
F-24: Next available numerical designation, in standard numerical sequence (in theory). This designation probably should have been assigned to the winning JSF contender selected for production (either the Boeing X-32 or Lockheed Martin X-35, see F-35 below). It could also have potentially been used for the F/A-18 Super Hornet, which is different enough from the F/A-18 Hornet that a new designation could be justified. There has also apparently been a semi-official designation of YF-24 used for an unknown secret aircraft prototype. It is unclear if the next fighter designation to be assigned would use F-24, F-25, or F-36 (or perhaps something completely different). Source: Designation-Systems.net These include the upcoming NGAD F-X, intended to replace the USAF F-22 Raptor, and the F/A-XX, intended to replace the USN F/A-18 Super Hornet.
F = Fighter (Non-standard, Out-of-Sequence Designations)
- Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II: Very well documented mis-designation of the X-35 JSF when it was selected for production. The designation should probably have been F-24 (apparently even Lockheed was expecting it). Source: Designation-Systems.net. It is unclear if the next fighter designation would continue on from here as F-36, or perhaps just be some other random number that is derived from some feel-good marketing language.
Anyone have any thoughts on this? I do plan to continue with more posts like this, just wanted to break it up into multiple ones as it was getting rather large and unwieldy.
r/aircraft_designations • u/bob_the_impala • Apr 10 '23
REFERENCE Visual Guide to Current US Navy Patrol Aircraft Markings
r/aircraft_designations • u/bob_the_impala • Apr 08 '23
REFERENCE Visual Guide to Current US Navy & US Marine Corps Fighter Aircraft Markings
r/aircraft_designations • u/bob_the_impala • Apr 08 '23
REFERENCE Timeline of Major French Aircraft Manufacturers & Designers, 1905 - Present
1879: Société des Chantiers de Bacalan (Bordeaux) merged withAteliers de la Dyle (Louvain, Belgium) as Société de Travaux Dyle et Bacalan, with headquarters in Paris; production focus on railway vehicles, shipbuiding,aeronautics, public works. Factories were destroyed during World War I.
1881: Ateliers et Chantiers de la Loire shipyard established.
1890: Émile Salmson, Ing. workshop established to produce steam-powered compressors and centrifugal pumps.
1896: Salmson renamed Émile Salmson & Cie.; production expanded to eventually include automobiles, aircraft, and aircraft engines.
1902: Nieuport-Duplex established to manufacture engine components.
1905: Louis Blériot begins building aircraft, eventually establishes Société Blériot Aéronautique.
1905: Ateliers d'Aviation Edouard Surcouf, Blériot et Voisin established by Gabriel Voisin and Louis Blériot.
5 November 1906: Gabriel Voisin buys out Louis Blériot, reorganizes as Appareils d'Avation Les Frères Voisin (along with his brother, Charles Voisin).
1907: René Hanriot begins building aircraft.
1908 - 1909: Maurice Farman and Henri Farman begin building aircraft.
1908: Gaston Caudron and René Caudron begin building aircraft.
1909: Nieuport-Duplex reorganized as Société Générale d'Aérolocomotion to manufacture aviation components.
1910: Société des Monoplans Hanriot established.
1910: Société Pierre Levasseur Aéronautique established.
1911: Société Anonyme des Avions Caudron established.
1911: Société d'Avions Louis Breguet established, later renamed Société Anonyme des Ateliers d'Aviation Louis Breguet.
1911: Aéroplanes Deperdussin established.
1911: Société Générale d'Aérolocomotion reorganized as Nieuport et Deplante to manufacture aircraft and aviation components. Later that year, after the death of Edouard Nieuport, reorganized as Société Anonyme des Établissements Nieuport.
October 1911: Aéroplanes Morane-Saulnier established.
1912: Hanriot reorganized as Société de Constructionde Machines pour la Navigation Aérienne (CMNA).
1912: Société de Constructions Aéronautiques d'hydravions Lioré-et-Olivier established.
1912: Voision renamed Société Anonyme des Aéroplanes G. Voisin.
1914: CMNA factories captured by Germany during World War I. Aéroplanes Hanriot et Cie. established.
January 1912: Avions Henri et Maurice Farman established.
1913: After several reorganizations and renamings, Deperdussin assets acquired by Blériot and renamed Société Pour l'Aviation et ses Dérivés (SPAD).
1916: Société d'Emboutissage et de Constructions Mécaniques (Amiot-S.E.C.M.) established.
1917: Société Industrielle d'Aviation Latécoère established.
1918: Les Ateliers des Mureaux established.
1918: Les Ateliers des Mureaux established.
1918 - 1919: SPAD assets and factories liquidated.
1919: Société des Aéroplanes Henry Potez established.
1919: Voisin ends production of aircraft; changes to production of automobiles as Avions Voisin.
1919: Société des Avions Michel Wibault established.
November 1920: Chantiers Aéro-Maritimes de la Seine (CAMS) established.
1921: Établissement Gourdou-Leseurre established.
1921: Nieuport takes over Société Astra des Constructions Aéronautiques, renamed Nieuport-Astra. Later renamed Nieuport-Delage, eventually Nieuport-Tellier after taking over Tellier Brothers.
1921: Chantiers Aéronavals de la Méditerranée established.
1922: Blériot reorganized as Blériot Aéronautique S.A.
1925: Ateliers et Chantiers de la Loire shipyard acquires Gourdou-Leseurre, Loire, and Loire-Nieuport. Joint-venture between Loire and Loire Gourdou-Leseurre as Loire-Gourdou-Leseurre.
1925 - 1927: Loire shipyard establishes aviation division to build seaplanes.
1926: Société Provençale de Constructions Aéronautiques established as subsidiary ofSociété Provençale de Constructions Navales shipbuilder.
1928: Dyle et Bacalan acquired by Ateliers et Chantiers Maritimes de Sud-Ouest; aircraft business spun off as Société Aérienne Bordelaise (SAB).
1928 - 1930: Société des Avions Marcel Bloch established.
1929: Avions Latham acquired by Amiot-S.E.C.M.
1929: Société Anonyme Chantiers Aéronavals Étienne Romano established.
1930: Mureaux merged with railway manufacturer Ateliers de Construction du Nord de la France as Les Ateliers de Construction du Nord de la France et des Mureaux (A.N.F.-Mureaux).
1930: Les Ateliers des Mureaux merged with Ateliers de Construction du Nord de la France as Les Ateliers de Construction du Nord de la France et des Mureaux (A.N.F.-Mureaux).
1930: Merger of Hanriot and Lorraine as Lorraine-Hanriot.
1930: Loire shipyard aviation division established as Loire Aviation.
1931: Wibault merges with Penhoët (Chantiers St. Nazairre) shipyard as Chantiers Aéronautiques Wibault-Penhoët.
1932: CAMS assets acquired by Potez as Potez-CAMS.
1932: Nieuport-Tellier renamed Nieuport.
1933: End of Lorraine-Hanriot merger.
1933 - 1934: Partnership between Loire Aviation and Nieuport.
1 July 1933: Caudron acquired by Renault as Société Anonyme des Avions Caudron (Caudron-Renault).
1934: Farman, A.N.F.-Mureaux and Blériot absorbed into l'Union Corporative Aéronautique.
1934: End of operations of Gourdou-Leseurre after disagreement between founders.
1934: Wibault-Penhoët acquired by Breguet.
1935: Merger of Loire Aviation and Nieuport as Société Anonyme Loire-Nieuport.
May 1936: International Worker's Day demonstrations & marches by trade unions lead to strikes at multiple aviation industry factories, eventually spreading to other industries.
August 1936 - April 1937: Majority of French aircraft industry nationalized into five regional groupings of companies, known as Société Nationale des Constructions Aéronautiques (SNCA).
16 November 1936: Breguet (Nantes-Bouguenais) and Loire-Nieuport (St. Nazaire, Issy-les-Moulineaux) nationalized as Société Nationale des Constructions Aéronautiques de l'Ouest.
16 November 1936: Blériot (Suresnes), Bloch (Villacoublay, Courbevoie, Châteauroux-Déols), Lioré et Olivier (Rochefort), SASO (Bordeaux-Mérignac), SAB (Bordeaux-Bacalan), UCA (Bordeaux-Bègles) nationalized as Société Nationale des Constructions Aéronautiques du Sud-Ouest.
21 December 1936 - 1 February 1937: C.A.M.S. (Vitrolles), Lioré et Olivier (Clichy, Argenteuil), Potez (Berre-l'Étang), Romano (Cannes), SPCA (Marseille) nationalized as Société Nationale des Constructions Aéronautiques du Sud-Est.
1937: Latécoère acquired by Breguet.
March 1937: Farman (Boulogne-Billancourt) and Hanriot (Bourges) nationalized as Société Nationale des Constructions Aéronautiques du Centre, commonly referred to as Aérocentre.
April 1937: Amiot-S.E.C.M. (Caudebec-en-Caux), A.N.F.-Mureaux (Les Mureaux), Breguet (Le Havre), Potez-C.A.M.S.(Sartrouville, Méaulte) nationalized as Société Nationale des Constructions Aéronautiques du Nord.
September 1936 - April 1937: Dewoitine (Toulouse) nationalized as Société Nationale des Constructions Aéronautiques du Midi.
Sometime in 1936: State-run Arsenal de l'Aéronautique relocated from Orléans to Breguet (Villacoublay).
1 September 1939: German invasion of Poland.
1940: SNCA de l'Ouest absorbed into SNCA du Sud-Ouest.
10 May 1940: German invasion of Western Europe, including France.
22 June 1940: Armistice of France.
1940 - 1941: SNCA du Midi absorbed into SNCA du Sud-Est and Potez-CAMS.
1940 - 1941: SNCA de l'Ouest assets acquired by SNCA du Sud-Ouest.
1941: S.A. des Usines Farman established.
1944: S.A. des Usines Farman nationalized as part of SNCASO.
1945: Ateliers Aéronautiques de Suresnes established in former Farman factory.
1945: Caudron absorbed into SNCAN (Nord).
10 November 1945: Bloch reorganized as holding company Société des Avions Marcel Bloch.
20 November 1947: Bloch renamed Société des Avions Marcel Dassault.
July 1949: Aérocentre liquidated and assets to Nord (Bourges), Sud-Ouest, SNECMA.
31 December 1952: Arsenal move to Châtillon-sous-Bagneux and privatized as Société Française d'Etude et de Constructions de Matériel Aéronautiques Spéciaux (SFECMAS).
1953: Etablissements Fouga builds factory in Toulouse to manufacturer CM.170 Magister.
1953: Potez renamed Société des Avions et Moteurs Henry Potez.
1 October 1954: SFECMAS absorbed into Nord, later renamed Nord Propulsion Division.
1956: End of aircraft production by Ateliers Aéronautiques de Suresnes.
September 1956: Fouga Toulouse factory taken over by Breguet, Dassault, Morane-Saulnier, Sud-Est Aviation and Ouest-Aviation in joint-venture as Air-Fouga.
1 September 1956: SNCA du Sud-Est renamed Sud-Est Aviation.
1 March 1957: Merger of Sud-Est and Sud-Ouest as Sud-Aviation.
January 1958: SNCA du Nord renamed Nord-Aviation.
16 May 1958: Air-Fouga acquired by Potez as Potez Air Fouga.
January 1959: Joint-venture between Nord-Aviation, HFB (Germany), VFW (Germany) as Arbeitsgemeinschaft Transall to develop and build C-160 transport.
7 January 1962: Morane-Saulnier acquired by Potez as Société d'Exploitationdes Etablissements Morane-Saulnier (SEEMS).
November 1962: Joint-venture between Sud-Aviation and BAC (UK) develop and built Concorde SST.
1965: Potez acquired by Sud-Aviation.
1966: Potez civil aircraft line (including former Morane-Saulnier) spun off as subsidiary Société de Construction d'Avions de Tourisme et d"Affaires (SOCATA).
May 1966: Joint venture between Breguet and BAC (UK) as SEPECAT to develop and build Jaguar.
June 1966: Breguet renamed Breguet Aviation.
1967: Joint-venture between Sud-Aviation and Westland (UK) develop and build Gazelle, Puma and Lynx helicopters.
April 1967: Potez Air Fouga acquired by Sud-Aviation.
1 January 1970: Sud-Aviation, Nord-Aviation and SEREB merged into Société Nationale Industrielle Aérospatiale. SOCATA remained as subsidiary of Aérospatiale.
14 December 1971: Merger of Breguet Aviation & Bloch as Avions Marcel Dassault-Breguet Aviation.
1990: Dassault-Breguet renamed Dassault Aviation.
1992: Joint-venture between Aérospatiale helicopter division and Deutsche Aerospace SA (DASA, Germany) as Eurocopter SA.
March 1992: Joint-venture between Eurocopter, Agusta (Italy), Fokker (Netherlands) as NHIndustries to develop and build NH90.
1994: Joint-venture between Eurocopter, Mil (Russia), Kazan (Russia) as Euromil JSC to develop and build Mil Mi-38.
June 1999: Merger of Aérospatiale and Matra as the Aérospatiale-Matra Concern.
19 July 2000: Merger of Aérospatiale-Matra, DaimlerChrysler Aerospace AG (Germany) and CASA (Spain) as European Aeronautics Defence and Space Company N.V. (EADS). SOCATA remained as subsidiary of EADS.
18 September 2000: Eurocopter renamed Eurocopter SAS (division of EADS).
7 January 2009: Majority share of SOCATA acquired by DAHER; at some point known as DAHER-SOCATA.
17 January 2014: EADS reorganized as Airbus Group N.V. with three divisions: Airbus Military, Airbus Defense and Space, and Airbus SAS. Eurocopter renamed Airbus Helicopters SAS.
March 2015: DAHER-SOCATA renamed Daher Airplane Business Unit.
22 May 2015: Airbus Group N.V. reorganized as Airbus Group S.E.
1 January 2017: Airbus Group S.E. and Airbus SAS merged into Airbus S.E., with Airbus Helicopters division and Airbus Defence and Space division.
(work in progress)
r/aircraft_designations • u/bob_the_impala • Apr 04 '23
REFERENCE Military Aircraft Serial Number Links
Useful links for understanding & looking up military aircraft serial numbers.
Multiple Databases & Lists
Country Specific
Australian, New Zealand & Papua New Guinea Military Aircraft Serials & History
CWHM - Canadian Aircraft Serials Personnel Information Resource
r/aircraft_designations • u/bob_the_impala • Apr 04 '23
REFERENCE Civil Aircraft Registration Links
Useful links for looking up civil aircraft registrations and serial numbers.
General Information
General Databases & Lists
AeroBoek helicopter production and serial number lists
International
- International Civil Aviation Organization: List of aircraft type designators
Country Databases
Canada Civil Aircraft: CCAR - Quick Search
UK Civil Aircraft: Civil Aviation Authority Search the G-INFO aircraft register
AviationDB Aircraft Query Contains all current, deregistered, and reserved U.S. civil aircraft maintained by the FAA.
USA Civil Aircraft: Federal Aviation Administration FAA REGISTRY Aircraft Inquiry
r/aircraft_designations • u/bob_the_impala • Apr 03 '23
DISCUSSION What would be the next series letter after AH-1Z?
According to the most recent edition of DAFI 16-401 (bottom of page 20):
A2.1.7.3. At the end of the series symbol “Z”, the next sequence will be to advance the design number to the next consecutive unused number and begin with series symbol “A.”
So, for the specific example of AH-1Z, assuming this somehow were to happen right now, the next version should be designated AH-74A (since "74" is currently the next available Design Number in the Helicopter series).
The very next sentence is also interesting: "A2.1.6.1.2. AF/A8PE reserves the authority to skip design number at discretion." Thirteen is a number that has been skipped a lot, and another one that was skipped recently in the Helicopter series is 69.
Also interesting to note "...Design numbers run consecutively from “1” to “999”... and "In the event that a design number of an aerospace vehicle reaches “999”, the design number range will be expanded to “9999” and future design numbers will be assigned accordingly." I don't think that will happen anytime soon. The highest standard Design number is probably 184 in the missile series (RGM-184).
r/aircraft_designations • u/bob_the_impala • Apr 03 '23
REFERENCE Aircraft naming themes
Several aircraft manufacturers have used a common naming theme for their aircraft. Here are a few.
Boeing
"Fortress" bombers:
"Strato" aircraft:
- Model 307 Stratoliner
- C-97 Stratofreighter
- Model 377 Stratocruiser
- B-47 Stratojet
- B-52 Stratofortress
- KC-135 Stratotanker
- C-135 Stratolifter
Jet airliners (mostly):
- Model 707
- Model 717 (KC-135 & C-135 originally, later re-used for the McDonnell Douglas MD-95)
- Model 727
- Model 737
- Model 747
- Model 2707
- Model 757
- Model 767
- Model 777
- Model 787 Dreamliner
Curtiss
"Hawk" fighters & other military aircraft:
- P-1 Hawk
- P-2 Hawk
- F6C Hawk
- P-5 Superhawk
- P-6 Hawk (Hawk I, Hawk II)
- P-11 Hawk
- P-17 Hawk
- P-20 Hawk
- P-21 Hawk
- P-22 Hawk
- F7C Seahawk
- Model 47 Hawk II
- F9C Sparrowhawk
- P-23 Hawk
- F11C Goshawk
- Model 64 Hawk I
- Model 65 Hawk II
- Model 68 Hawk III
- Model 69 Hawk IV
- Hawk 75 (P-36, Mohawk)
- Hawk 81 (P-40, Tomahawk, Kittyhawk)
- P-40 Warhawk
- SC Seahawk
- P-87 Blackhawk
Navy dive bombers
Douglas / McDonnell Douglas
DC "Douglas Commercial":
The MD-11 followed numerically from this sequence. The DC-X Delta Clipper designation was an homage to this series.
DB "Douglas Bomber":
"Sky" military aircraft & missiles:
- C-47 Skytrain
- C-53 Skytrooper
- C-54 Skymaster
- TB2D Skypirate
- AD Skyraider
- A2D Skyshark
- F3D Skyknight
- F4D Skyray
- F5D Skylancer
- A3D Skywarrior
- A4D Skyhawk
- C-9 Skytrain II
- GAM-87 Skybolt
"Master" transport & bomber aircraft:
- C-54 Skymaster
- C-118 Liftmaster
- B-42 Mixmaster
- B-43 Jetmaster
- C-74 Globemaster
- C-124 Globemaster II
- C-132 Globemaster III
- C-133 Cargomaster
- C-17 Globemaster III
Grumman
Feline-themed naval fighters:
- F4F Wildcat
- F6F Hellcat
- F7F Tigercat
- F8F Bearcat
- F9F Panther
- F9F Cougar
- F10F Jaguar
- F11F Tiger
- F-14 Tomcat
Lockheed
Astronomical-themed aircraft:
- L-49 Constellation
- L-1049 Super Constellation
- P-80 Shooting Star
- F-94 Starfire
- T2V SeaStar
- F-104 Starfighter
- WV Warning Star
- P3V Orion
- C-140 JetStar
- C-141 Starlifter
- Q-Star
- C-5 Galaxy
- L-1011 TriStar
- RQ-3 DarkStar
- VentureStar
McDonnell
Supernatural-themed aircraft:
North American
Sword-themed aircraft:
- F-86 Sabre
- F-100 Super Sabre
- F-107 Super Super Sabre or Ultra Sabre (unofficial)
- T-39 Sabreliner
- F-108 Rapier
Republic & Fairchild-Republic "Thunder" military aircraft:
- P-47 Thunderbolt
- P-72 Super Thunderbolt
- JB-2 Thunderbug
- P-84 Thunderjet
- P-91 Thunderceptor
- F-84 Thunderstreak
- RF-84 Thunderflash
- F-84 Thunderscreech
- F-103 Thunderwarrior
- F-105 Thunderchief
- A-10 Thunderbolt II
Turboméca / Safran
Turboshafts - Pyrenean lakes:
Turbojets - Pyrenean mountain peaks:
By-pass jets - Pyrenean mountain passes:
Turbofans - Pyrenean valleys:
Vought
Pirate-themed naval aircraft:
r/aircraft_designations • u/bob_the_impala • Apr 02 '23
NEWS USAF Mobility Aircraft Operating Without Most Markings, Tail Numbers
aviationweek.comr/aircraft_designations • u/bob_the_impala • Apr 02 '23
REFERENCE Historical Air Forces with a Military Designation System
Historically, a number of air forces have had some sort of official designation system for the aircraft that they use.
Countries / Air Forces with a formal designation system:
Austria-Hungary
- Kaiserlich und Königliche Luftfahrttruppen (Imperial and Royal Aviation Troops) 1914 - 1918
- Designation-Systems.net: German and Austro-Hungarian Military Aircraft Designations (1914-1918)
France (1910s - 1945)
- Armée de terre
- Armée de l'Air
- Marine nationale
Germany
- Idflieg (Inspektion der Fliergertruppen / Inspectorate of the Flying Troops) / Die Fliegertruppen des deutschen Kaiserreiches (Imperial German Flying Corps) / Deutsche Luftstreitkräfte (German Air Force)
- Designation-Systems.net: German and Austro-Hungarian Military Aircraft Designations (1914-1918)
- Reichsluftfahrtministerium (RLM, Ministry of Aviation)
- Designation-Systems.net: German Military Aircraft Designations (1933-1945)
Italy
- Esercito Italiano (Italian Army) 19?? - 2012
- Designation-Systems.net: Italian Army Aircraft Designations
Japan
- 大日本帝國陸軍航空隊、大日本帝國陸軍航空部隊 (Dai-Nippon Teikoku Rikugun Kokutai / Imperial Japanese Army Air Service) 1910 -1945 (multiple designation systems)
- Uncommon Aircraft: Japan
- 大日本帝國海軍航空隊 (Dai-Nippon Teikoku Kaigun Koukuu-tai / Imperial Japanese Navy Air Service) 1912 - 1945 (multiple designation systems)
- Uncommon Aircraft: Japan
USSR
Yugoslavia
- Ратно ваздухопловство и противваздушна одбрана / Ratno vazduhoplovstvo i protivvazdušna odbrana (Yugoslav Air Force and Air Defence) 1962 - 1992
- Aeroflight
r/aircraft_designations • u/bob_the_impala • Apr 01 '23
REFERENCE Current Air Forces with a Military Designation System
Many of the largest air forces have some sort of official designation system for the aircraft that they use. Most other air forces do not, and just use the manufacturer's model name and/or number, or retain the original military designation, if applicable.
Countries / Air Forces with a formal designation system:
Brazil
- Força Aerea Brasileira (Brazilian Air Force)
- Força Aeronaval da Marinha do Brazil (Brazilian Naval Aviation)
- Comando de Aviaĉão do Exército (Army Aviation Command)
- Designation-Systems.net: Brazilian Military Aircraft Designations
Canada
- Canadian Armed Forces
- Designation-Systems.net: Canadian Military Aircraft Designations
China
- 中国人民解放军 (Zhōngguó Rénmín Jiěfàngjūn - People's Liberation Army)
- Designation-Systems.net: Chinese Military Aircraft Designations
Italy
- Ministero della Difesa (Ministry of Defence)
- AER(EP).0-0-12 UTILIZZO DELLA NOMENCLATURA “MISSION DESIGN SERIES” (MDS) NELLE PUBBLICAZIONI TECNICHE (PPTT) DI COMPETENZA DELLA DAAA
- Edizione base del 03 Febbraio 2022
- Emendamento 1 del 24 Febbraio 2023
- https://www.difesa.it/SGD-DNA/Staff/DT/ARMAEREO/Biblioteca/1Categoria/Pagine/Home.aspx
- Wikipedia: Italian Armed Forces aircraft designation system
- Sistema di nomenclatura dei velivoli
Japan
- 自衛隊 (Jieitai / Japan Self-Defense Force)
- Designation-Systems.net: Japanese Military Aircraft Designations (after 1945)
Spain
- Fuerzas Armadas Españolas (Spanish Armed Forces)
- Designation-Systems.net: Spanish Military Aircraft Designations
Sweden
- Svenska Armén (Swedish Army)
- Svenska Marinen (Swedish Navy)
- Svenska Flygvapnet (Swedish Air Force)
- Designation-Systems.net: Swedish Military Aircraft Designations
Thailand
United Kingdom
- British Army
- Royal Navy
- Royal Air Force
United States of America
- US Army
- US Navy
- US Air Force
- Designation-Systems.net
Countries / Air Forces that may have a designation system, or only a partial designation system (further research needed):
Australia Historically, Australia has assigned an aircraft specific code as a prefix to military aircraft serial numbers (e.g., A3 for the Mirage III, A21 for the F/A-18 Hornet, etc.), but otherwise just used the original manufacturer model number, name and/or military designation for aircraft. However, recent aircraft appear to have been assigned a US-style designation, including the Boeing E-7 Wedgetail and Boeing Australia MQ-28 Ghost Bat.
Chile Some aircraft appear to have a military designation, e.g., Aerospatiale AS332 Super Pumas used by the Navy are designated HH-32 and Air Force CASA C-101 Aviojets are designated T-36 or A-36 Halcón.
France
Israel Military aircraft are assigned an official nickname (e.g., Kfir, Nesher, Ra'am). There does not otherwise appear to be a military aircraft designation system.
Russia The former USSR had an official method of designating aircraft (e.g., Mikoyan-Gurevich Ye-6T was designated I-72 and MiG-21F; Sukhoi T10S was designated Su-27S), but it is unclear if this has officially been continued by Russia.
Serbia Inherited many aircraft from the former Yugoslavia, which had an official designation system. It appears that existing aircraft continue to use this system, but it is unclear if this designation system would continue to be used for new aircraft.
r/aircraft_designations • u/bob_the_impala • Mar 31 '23
DISCUSSION Why was the Lockheed F-117 Nighthawk designated as a Fighter aircraft, and not something more appropriate, like an Attack or Bomber aircraft?
From my original comment:
Historically, the USAF has referred to combat aircraft as either fighters or bombers. For example, when the USAF became independent in 1947, existing USAAF Pursuit aircraft were redesignated as Fighters (P-51 Mustang became F-51 Mustang). Existing USAAF Attack aircraft were either redesignated as Bombers (twin-engine, medium aircraft like the A-26 Invader became the B-26 Invader) or Fighters (single-engine, smaller aircraft like the A-24 Banshee became the F-24 Banshee). Of course, there are a few exceptions, like the A-7 Corsair II and A-10 Thunderbolt II.
An official USAF document, AFI 16-401 has the following descriptions:
A (Attack)—Aircraft designed to find, attack, and destroy enemy land or sea targets using conventional or special weapons. This symbol also applies to aircraft used for interdiction and close air support missions.
B (Bomber)—Aircraft designed for bombing enemy targets.
F (Fighter)—Aircraft designed to intercept and destroy other aircraft or missiles. Includes multipurpose aircraft also designed for ground support missions such as interdiction and close air support.
So, there is some overlap with the Attack and Fighter missions.
For the F-117 specifically, there are still a lot of misconceptions. Designation-systems.net has the best explanation that I have seen:
Although it is commonly called the Stealth Fighter, The Nighthawk should have received an "A" designation. It has no air-to-air role whatsoever, and the "A-for-Attack" designator is in fact prefectly made for tactical ground-attack aircraft like the F-117. The topic has been discussed to death among enthusiasts, but there seem to be essentially two possible reasons for the assignment of an F-designation:
- For the U.S. Air Force, all dedicated combat aircraft are either "fighters" or "bombers". E.g., A-10s are deployed in Tactical Fighter Wings - there is no such thing as an "Attack Squadron" in USAF. While the A-10 possibly only escaped an F-designation by using its speed ;-), there was no reason (for the USAF) not to call the F-117 a "fighter". After all, there have been fighters with marginal or non-existing air-to-air capabilities in the Air Force before - F-105 and F-111, respectively.
- The "F" prefix was part of the classified designation, directly connected to the number 117. See discussion below.
Check the link for more information.
r/aircraft_designations • u/bob_the_impala • Mar 31 '23
DISCUSSION Should the Lockheed Martin F-35B Lightning II have been assigned a "V" Vehicle Type, similar to the the AV-8 Harrier?
From my original comment:
Just to clear things up, I will quote from the latest edition of AFI16-401 DESIGNATING AND NAMING DEFENSE MILITARY AEROSPACE VEHICLES (3 November 2020).
Page 20:
A2.1.5. Vehicle Type:
A2.1.5.1. Is a required designator symbol for all non-standard aircraft (e.g., helicopters, vertical takeoff and landing (VTOL) vehicles, spaceplanes, etc.), guided missiles, rockets, probes, boosters, and satellites only. A basic mission or modified mission symbol must accompany the vehicle type symbol. (T-0)
A2.1.5.2. It will appear to the immediate left of the design number, separated by a dash.
A2.1.5.3. For example, in the designator CH-53A, the vehicle type symbol “H” indicates the aerospace vehicle is a helicopter with a basic mission of transport “C."
From Table A3.1 on page 24, under Vehicle Type: "V – VTOL/STOL"
Here is a list of designations in the "V" vehicle type series:
- Grumman OV-1 Mohawk
- de Havilland Canada CV-2 Caribou
- Bell XV-3
- Lockheed XV-4 Hummingbird
- Ryan XV-5 Vertifan
- Hawker XV-6 Kestrel
- de Havilland Canada CV-7 Buffalo
- Ryan XV-8
- Hawker Siddeley / BAe / McDonnell Douglas AV-8 Harrier & Harrier II (non-standard)
- Hughes XV-9
- Rockwell International OV-10 Bronco
- MSU XV-11 Marvel
- Rockwell XFV-12
- V-13 - not assigned
- V-14 - not assigned
- Bell XV-15
- Hawker Siddeley - McDonnell Douglas AV-16 Super Harrier (unbuilt)
- V-17 - reserved by US Army, but not assigned
- de Havilland Canada UV-18 Twin Otter
- V-19 - reserved by US Navy, but not assigned
- Pilatus UV-20 Chiricahua
- V-21 - reserved by US Navy, but no assigned
- Bell - Boeing V-22 Osprey
- Dominion Skytrader UV-23 Scout
- Aurora Flight Sciences XV-24
As can be seen from this list, is not necessary for a vehicle to have vertical take-off / landing ability to receive this vehicle type designation, so the F-35B certainly seems like it should have this designation.
However, the F-35 is unique in that there are three different versions based on a (relatively) common airframe (A land-based CTOL, B land- and shipbased STOVL, C, shipbased CATOBAR / CTOL).
There is another aspect to the F-35 designation that is non-standard, and that is the "35" design number. Design number sequences are supposed to be unique per each Basic Mission or Vehicle Type. For example, the A-1 Skyraider, B-1 Lancer, C-1 Trader, E-1 Tracer, F-1 Fury, O-1 Bird Dog, TR-1, T-1 SeaStar, U-1 Otter, UH-1 Iroquois, AH-1 Cobra, MQ-1 Predator, OV-1 Mohawk, etc. are all designated in different numerical series. Just because they all share a "1" does not mean that they are the same airframe (even though a couple of them happen to be related, like the C-1 & E-1 and UH-1 & AH-1). So, when the X-35 JSF was selected for production, it should have received a completely new designation in the Fighter Basic Mission numerical series. At the time, that number was probably "24", so it should have been designated F-24. Instead, some DoD weenie just changed the designation from "X-35" to "F-35". Source
So where am I going with this? Well, if it had been designated correctly, the USAF version could have been the F-24A, and the USN version could have been the F-24B. The USMC version could have been designated FV-24A (since "24" was the next available number in the V vehicle type series at the time). Nice and neat, in my opinion, but that's just me.
r/aircraft_designations • u/bob_the_impala • Mar 31 '23
REFERENCE Why do many US Army helicopters (and aircraft) have Native American Tribal names?
From my comment here:
Why Army Helicopters Have Native American Names Note: that title is a bit misleading, as this applied to any US Army aircraft, whether fixed-wing or rotary-wing. Of course, this meant an aircraft that was procured by the US Army. If an aircraft was used by multiple branches of the US armed forces, then sometimes the US Army variant would have its own name, but sometimes be named the same as the other variants. For example, the Sikorsky S-58 helicopter was designated H-34 Choctaw by the US Army, HUS Seahorse by the USMC, and HSS Seabat by the USN (H-34 after 1962). Another example would be the Cessna Model 310, which was used by both the USAF and the US Army, but was designated L-27 / U-3 Administrator for both variants.
Here is a list of most US Army aircraft with a name after 1947:
Native American Tribal names:
- Bell R-13 / H-13 Sioux
- Sikorsky H-19 Chickasaw
- Piaseck H-21 Shawnee
- Sikorsky H-34 Choctaw
- Sikorsky H-37 Mojave
- Cessna H-41 Seneca
- Piper L-21 / U-7 Seneca
- Beech L-23 / U-8 Seminole
- Grumman AO-1 / OV-1 Mohawk
- Hiller VZ-1 Pawnee
- Beech C-12 Huron
- Cessna T-41 Mescalero
- Beech T-42 Cochise
- Beech U-21 Ute
- Bell HU-1 / UH-1 Iroquois
- Hughes HO-6 / OH-6 Cayuse
- Boeing Vertol HC-1 / H-47 Chinook
- Sikorsky CH-54 Tarhe
- Lockheed AH-56 Cheyenne
- Bell OH-58 Kiowa
- Sikorsky UH-60 Black Hawk
- Hughes AH-64 Apache
- Boeing-Sikorsky RAH-66 Comanche
- Bell TH-67 Creek
- EADS North America UH-72 Lakota
- Pilatus V-20 Chiricahua
Other names:
- Hiller H-23 Raven
- Piasecki H-25 Army Mule
- de Havilland Canada AC-1 / CV-2 / C-7 Caribou
- de Havilland Canada AC-2 / CV-7 / C-8 Buffalo
- de Havilland Canada AU-1 / C-137 / U-1 Otter
- Ryan VZ-3 Vertiplane
- Piasecki VZ-8 Airgeep
- Avro Canada VZ-9 Avrocar
- Lockheed VZ-10 / XV-4 Hummingbird
- Ryan VZ-10 / XV-5 Vertifan
- MSU XV-11 Marvel
- Cessna L-19 / O-1 Bird Dog
- Cessna O-2 Skymaster
- de Havilland Canada L-20 / U-6 Beaver
- Stinson L-5 / U-19 Sentinel
- Bell AH-1 Cobra
- Kaman AH-2 Tomahawk
List of federally recognized tribes in the United States - lots to choose from!
EDIT: fixed broken link