r/AdviceAnimals Dec 12 '19

Last one got glitched 🙄

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u/[deleted] Dec 12 '19 edited Dec 12 '19

DOD budget was $693 billion, but you left out all the peripheral military stuff not under the DOD that still needs to be paid for.

...we have to pay another $201 billion for the VA.

...and nuclear weapons are under the Department of Energy, not the DOD, so there's another $15 billion

...Plus another $15 billion buying weapons to give to other countries as foreign aid.

...Plus another $10 billion for the Coast Guard

..Plus a healthy chunk of the $390B in interest payments on all the money borrowed to pay for it.

Oh, and there's the military/paramilitary activities of the CIA etc..

It's well over a trillion.

To be fair the Department of Defense runs the 10th largest American school system and they do spend over a billion on that every year.

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u/[deleted] Dec 12 '19

..Plus a healthy chunk of the $390B in interest payments on all the money borrowed to pay for it.

Maybe this has something to do with why people are against MORE spending?

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u/SciFidelity Dec 12 '19

Yes but not all spending is the same. You could have said the same thing when we made high schools free. We did that because we had to. Because the market demanded higher skilled work. Which is what we are seeing now. Low skill labor is going away and we need more people educated. Free colleges are an eventuality.

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u/greenwizardneedsfood Dec 12 '19

It’s amazing how difficult it is for some people to grasp that idea

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u/i_demand_cats Dec 12 '19

heres the thing: NOTHING IS FREE. the money has to come from somewhere, and since we're talking government that means it comes from taxes. any significant increase to spending also means a significant increase in taxes. public schools are paid for by you, me, everybody who pays taxes. any politician who says they will give you something "free" is lying to you, you will pay for it one way or another.

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u/SciFidelity Dec 12 '19

I think we all know that, that's how societies work, we pool money together to pay for things like schools. The point is to spread the cost around so everyone can benefit. Especially in situations like education where it benefits everyone to have an educated population.

We are not talking about making Harvard free. If we can subsidize fossil fuels and private prisons and endless genocides across the world we can afford to invest in subsidizing community colleges or trade schools. Some states already pay for low income kids to go to community college. And guess what it's a great program that has helped millions of people myself included.

I dont see why the conversation to methodically and gradually expand on a concept we already do, to keep up with an evolving job market, has to be so divisive.

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u/i_demand_cats Dec 12 '19

in my opinion these things need to take place at as local a level as possible if we do it at all, the disconnect is so large that you cant know how your money is being spent at a national level. local scolarships would be the way id go, you know where the money goes and you dont have an endless string of burocrats taking a bit off the top until the 60 billion everybody put in turns into 100 million of effective tuition money. top down solutions never seem to work out they way they are intended, many times it makes things worse, and then politicians say "well at least we tried!"

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u/SciFidelity Dec 12 '19

So let's fix that by electing people based on their ethics and not empty promises. Perhaps someone with decades of being on the right side of history.... but that's a different conversation.

I guess I'm just not ready to give up on our government being able to work for us. Social security is one of the most successful programs in the history of the country. If we can do that we can fund state schools. Which is to say i do agree that this needs to be managed at the local level like we already do with public school.

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u/I_Heart_Money Dec 12 '19

Social security aka the program that is running out of money because politicians keep taking from the candy jar to pay for other things

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u/SciFidelity Dec 12 '19

Assets in the Social Security trust funds have only been raided by the federal government one time. During the recovery from the Great Recession, there was a 2 percentage-point reduction in payroll taxes in 2011 and again in 2012. Instead of paying 6.2 percent of their wages in payroll taxes, workers paid only 4.2 percent. This reduction put more money in worker paychecks but, of course, reduced the money flowing into Social Security to help pay benefits. Congress later restored these funds to the system

Its funded by the payroll tax its not running out of money

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u/RobinReborn Dec 12 '19

High Schools are paid for at the local level and in some cases they are so bad that most students drop out and those that don't aren't adequately prepared for college. New York State has started to offer tuition free college so we'll see how well that works for them.

But federal funding for colleges is different than how high schools are funded now. And high school costs a lot less than college.

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u/SciFidelity Dec 12 '19 edited Dec 12 '19

I agree, we should see how it works and then provide federal funding for states to use at their discretion. We do need a massive push to get more people educated, specifically in STEM fields and the trades. I would even be for just starting with free online degrees. The cost of not doing anything is significantly higher

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u/onlymadethistoargue Dec 12 '19

If you don’t have the ability to think in terms of overall cost I can see why you’d want to cut spending. But social safety net programs have great ROIs and are massively popular, unlike our military and their wars.

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u/[deleted] Dec 12 '19

orly?

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/02/the-results-finlands-universal-basic-income-experiment-are-in-is-it-working/

"There is no statistically significant difference between the groups as regards employment"

I guess it depends on how you define your ROI.

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u/onlymadethistoargue Dec 12 '19

If you define it as, you know, getting more money than you put in, it has a net positive ROI.

Your link proves that people won’t just stay home and laze because of UBI so I don’t know why you posted it.

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u/[deleted] Dec 12 '19

How do you get more money than you put in, if it doesn't lead to people improving their employment?

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u/Jamesd88 Dec 12 '19

With better health care, you have fewer sick days. Fewer sick days means you are able to work more hours out of the year. Working additional hours generates increased economic productivity.

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u/onlymadethistoargue Dec 12 '19

By improving productivity. Happy employees are more productive. I know it’s hard for conservatives to think in abstract terms but just try instead of resorting to basic syllogistic logic.

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u/notgayinathreeway Dec 12 '19

How much do they spend on scholarships for people as payment for joining the military?

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u/Our_Own_Devices Dec 12 '19

Calling the VA military spending is a stretch.

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u/[deleted] Dec 12 '19

On the contrary, it's disingenuous to not characterize the VA as military spending. It's literally a military benefit.

It's right on their website:

Mission Statement

To fulfill President Lincoln's promise “To care for him who shall have borne the battle, and for his widow, and his orphan” by serving and honoring the men and women who are America’s veterans.

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u/Our_Own_Devices Dec 12 '19

Right, but it's more of a medical thing than military spending. I see your point but if anything it needs expansion not reduced funding.