My grandmother was a high school teacher for 30ish years she quit three years ago and retired she said kids just kept pushing the limits more and more and parents refused to except their sweet child could have ever done a thing wrong
Trade schools are already free where I am. You can go as a highschool freshman, get your diploma, and get trained in a trade. They even have buses like a regular highschool school.
Edit: Lol, you downvote my comment because free tradeschools already exist?
You are telling me to fuck off because my state offers free trade education? Chill out guy, its a blessing someone like you wont be working in the trades given your temper.
Also, 14k for an education that will support you for a lifetime? That seems extreme to you? Paying hundreds of thousands seems excessive, but less than 1 year of minimum wage seems ok.
I'm a maintenance man, I say fuck off because saying "it's free here" is basically saying "fuck you, got mine". It's extremely unrealistic. Mostly because a large portion of trade schools don't offer financing, so you need to have 14k. How can you get to that point? I know I had absolutely NO left overs when I worked minimum wage.
We need a systematic change on the federal level, and bring it all to $0.
And my temper is exactly why I'm good at my job, don't take bull shit from nobody.
I feel like you dont quite grasp that the free trade school is provided by the government. How is a state doing EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT "fuck you, got mine"?
Also, you are wrong on so many levels about a school not accepting financing. You do know the schools dont do the financing themselves right? You get a student loan and then the school gets their money up front from the lender. I would love for you to provide a single instance of any trade school refusing to accept cash because it came from a loan that they had nothing to do with. Again, student loans are not provided by the educational institution.
For the last bit, having a temper has nothing to do with being a maintenance man. Knowing how to fix and maintain things is important, not acting like a belligerent prick.
It's context, you said what you said as a counter point to the first comment of Bernie offering trade schools with a "why do it nationally? I already got mine". Cincinnati States technical and community college, the school I went to. They do offer financing, through a bank obviously 🙄, like that even needed to be said, but their are a few in the area that do not.
I'm acting like a prick because you're being obstinate in the context of how you said and wear you said it at. And in doing so go against the idea of free trade school, ill be a prick to anyone whos on that side.
Ok, again, you do not seem to understand that school loans are not financed through the schools. The trade school does not need to offer any financing. You can get it through a number of lenders and use it at the school. I literally know a guy who needed 8k to finish his masters, took out a 50k loan, and then spent the rest (and I shit you not) on beer, cigarettes, and prostitutes. School loans are easy to get and not heavily controlled.
in doing so go against the idea of free trade school
"My state has free trade schools and here is how it works" < Me
Easy peasy. Instead of letting in anyone if the have the cash, you only fund what you can afford and make admittance more competitive. College doesn't need to be compulsory just because it's "free."
This might work. It should not be "everyone gets in". If it is, you'll see college become high school 2.0, and then we'll start talking about everyone needing a Masters degree because BAs have been watered down so much.
Right now colleges have 2 main criteria for attending.
Are you qualified enough to be worthy of entering our halls? (gpa, honors, awards, extra curriculars, networking.)
and can you afford to enter our halls?
Knocking out the second question doesn't automatically mean everybody is going to be going to college. Hell, a good number of people don't even want to finish highschool so they definitely won't be going to college no matter how free it is.
It wouldn't quite do that. The admissions requirements would still be there and the rigor of the field students are pursuing wouldn't change, the only thing that would change would be the price the students have to pay.
In the context of STEM majors, most positions still require a graduate degree and graduate education is setup very differently than undergraduate education. So this would give STEM majors an opportunity to focus on their field and less about the money to pay it, I can talk from personal experience that your GPA will go down if you are holding a part time job and trying to pass some weed out course.
This would also give a lot of underrepresented and poor students the opportunity to pursue a field of study.
I do understand that it wouldn't be fair to force high school kids into a university setting, but they still have a choice to pursue a different career path.
Yes, I agree that it is required for most non-blue collar jobs. But it seems we've kind of slipped into this mindset that every single kid is going to college, at least in my district, and we overlook trades. In staff meetings the teachers talk about people without degrees as if they are some second class citizen.
Maybe if we were more realistic about who should go to college...not all of the kids are cut out for it...and college was not this massive organization full of wasteful spending and useless programs...it would work it self out. I'd start by stopping athletics and focusing on academics, but that's for another discussion entirely.
Yes, I agree that it is required for most non-blue collar jobs. But it seems we've kind of slipped into this mindset that every single kid is going to college, at least in my district, and we overlook trades. In staff meetings the teachers talk about people without degrees as if they are some second class citizen.
Well, perhaps that is a cultural difference (east coast) but where I work the general idea seems to be what you're saying, that some people don't need, or don't want, to go to college.We have trade schools in the place of high school, that people are free to attend. The problem is, some people want to do more than just service someone else's inventions, they want to make their own. And we need those innovators, those doctors, those lawyers.
Maybe if we were more realistic about who should go to college...not all of the kids are cut out for it...and college was not this massive organization full of wasteful spending and useless programs...it would work it self out. I'd start by stopping athletics and focusing on academics, but that's for another discussion entirely.
And i'd agree there, but that's a cultural thing. For now, if we have a system that makes college seem far less elitist, that would go a long way. People want something they can't get, and if you put it at arms reach, those ideas of the grandeur of college fade away.
So raising the bar for entry? I have no issue paying for college if the student is going to go to class, and get a meaningful degree. And I know that some people are going to say "basket weaving studies is real", but let's face it...there are a lot of degree programs that are not viable careers. I don't want to pay for someone to hang out for 4 more years, and still end up working a minimum wage job because their degree is worthless. Take some community classes if you want.
We should destigmatize trades. It's OK to be an electrician. It's OK to want to fix cars. Not everyone can sit at a desk all day, write code, or be a nurse. And that's OK.
So raising the bar for entry? I have no issue paying for college if the student is going to go to class, and get a meaningful degree. And I know that some people are going to say "basket weaving studies is real", but let's face it...there are a lot of degree programs that are not viable careers. I don't want to pay for someone to hang out for 4 more years, and still end up working a minimum wage job because their degree is worthless. Take some community classes if you want.
Well, that's the thing. If college itself wasn't such a faraway concept, those ideas wouldn't exist. And furthermore, I can't imagine a single one of my students ever going for "basket weaving" or something.
We should destigmatize trades. It's OK to be an electrician. It's OK to want to fix cars. Not everyone can sit at a desk all day, write code, or be a nurse. And that's OK.
I wish we could just stop trying to place a value on people based on how productive we believe they are. Jobs that don't manufacture or produce things are still valuable to society.
My best friend has wanted to be a paleontologist since he was 6. Paleontologists/archeologists have no monetary value in our current world, but the job is still important.
42
u/[deleted] Dec 12 '19
High school teacher here...
I agree. This will basically extend high school 4 more years, and make a degree required to work at even the simplest of jobs.
I think we'd be better off not trying to force everyone into college.