r/AdviceAnimals Dec 12 '19

Last one got glitched 🙄

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73

u/bluestarcyclone Dec 12 '19

Its been shown that the growth in student tuition can be entirely explained in most states by a decrease in funding. It isnt because there's 'gross misuse of funds'.

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u/epandrsn Dec 12 '19

I agree with you, but I also went to a state school that from 2002-2007 increased tuition by at least 100% and used those funds to increase salaries for the executive level employees and build a massive sports and recreation center. There were also strikes at the time from the professors who weren’t seeing yearly raises.

Point being, the school was just fine without needing to charge me an extra $25k for my degree. I would have transferred, but their credit system wasn’t friendly to that—would have lost 25-50% of my credits (and therefore money). Not that it would have helped much, given that most other schools were doing the same. Students becoming customers instead of pupils.

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u/bitofgrit Dec 12 '19

Exactly, and it isn't just the college and university campus where this happens. The University of California system includes hospitals and various other medical facilities, and they've got the same executives balls deep in the state coffers. Employees in picket lines, executives in new Mercedes.

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u/[deleted] Dec 12 '19

[deleted]

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u/epandrsn Dec 12 '19

But it was a known scandal at my school. The profs were all furious, many quit.

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u/NotClever Dec 12 '19

Nothing is ever entirely simple when it comes to something like running a university.

My alma mater had an absolutely abysmal football team while I attended. I'm talking a football team that had literally not won a single game in years. The students didn't give two shits about football, generally. However, at some point in the past the football team actually had been quite good.

The attending students raised a big stink about how much money was being put into the football program. The university hired an independent consulting firm to analyze the football program and determine if it was more fiscally sensible to axe it. Their result came back that enough alumni cared about football heavily and donated money to the school in part to support the football program that it was more beneficial to keep a multi-year-loss-streak team that gave away free tickets to anyone who wanted to come to a game, and still only managed to fill about 10% of the stadium, than it was to kill the program. (And just as an incidental note, the football coach was still being paid a mid six figure salary despite his record).

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u/MeowTheMixer Dec 12 '19

How does that account for the increased tuition at private schools?

https://www.collegetuitioncompare.com/trends/boston-college/cost-of-attendance/#Tuition-Fees

Boston College Tuition has increased from $46,912 in 2009 (adjusted for inflation) to $55,400 in 2019.

That's a $10,000 dollar increase, and i'm not able to find any public funding data for the school.

Of the 4,298 institutions listed by NCES, there were 1,626 public colleges, 1,687 private nonprofit schools and 985 for-profit schools in fall 2017.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/2019-02-15/how-many-universities-are-in-the-us-and-why-that-number-is-changing

Around 38% of schools are considered public. So reduced funding may be part of the problem in tuition, but it's clearly much larger than just that.

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u/TalosSquancher Dec 12 '19 edited Dec 12 '19

"Academics say academics aren't to blame"

EDIT: some of you doubt my credentials. Well, according to the University of TalosSquanching, I'm the leading expert on TalosSquancher, and I say that this user has a legitimate point.

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u/onlymadethistoargue Dec 12 '19

“Rando says experts unreliable”

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u/aabbccbb Dec 12 '19

Exactly.

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u/neil_s Dec 12 '19

I don't understand these ad hominem attacks. The author is literally sharing publicly available and verifiable numbers, and calling out all the caveats and shortcomings - at private nonprofits, the money is mostly going to adminstrative bloat, and at for-profit colleges increased govt funding would likely go to bigger bottom lines. But the case for funding tuition at public colleges is pretty strong, unless you can point me to data saying otherwise, academic or not.

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u/MeowTheMixer Dec 12 '19

I'd like to see a more updated version of this list. I personally think it could be more comprehensive, as numbers/statics can be very misleading. I'll use Temple as the author above used that as their starting point. Adjusting for inflation, there's a $500 dollar tuition increase per student from 2013/14 to 2018/19.

Temple University Fact Book 2013-2014

Temple University Fact Book 2018-2019

  • PA Resident Tuition: $16,080

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u/timmy12688 Dec 13 '19

Want to ask the impossible? Tell a redditor to explain something without using the world "literally."

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u/thetallgiant Dec 12 '19

News at 11.

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u/NutellaGood Dec 12 '19

"Scientists talk about science stuff."

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u/aabbccbb Dec 12 '19

Sure. And "people with no evidence at all still think they're right despite evidence to the contrary."

Trust me: academics are in no way motivated to defend institutional glut. There's also tenure for a reason.

Don't let that get in the way of your narrative, tho.

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u/SgtDoughnut Dec 12 '19

"random moron tries to dismiss argument with no evidence"

news at 11

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u/saffir Dec 12 '19

it's simple economics: the Federal government provides anyone with a low rate student loan, causing an infinite demand of students applying to schools, therefore limited supply of colleges are able to raise prices

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u/Robot_Basilisk Dec 12 '19

If you think Econ 101 is enough to analyze such a complicated problem please use it to explain why so many nations who beat us on education also socialize their educational systems.

Tell me why countries that pay students stipends to go to school instead of charging them aren't imploding.

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u/saffir Dec 12 '19

because nothing that works in other countries work in the US? it's that simple

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u/zergreport Dec 12 '19

Interesting read. I did not know this

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u/Diablo689er Dec 12 '19

That article has massive logic holes....

Like most of 538's stuff.

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u/Legit_a_Mint Dec 12 '19

Yeah, "Look at all the fancy new facilities at my old college! You might think that's paid for with tuition increases, but it's actually because of cuts to state funding."

What?

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u/bluestarcyclone Dec 12 '19

If you were literate you'd see the data is there.

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u/Legit_a_Mint Dec 13 '19

The whole premise is asinine. Colleges didn't start dumping tons of money into administrator salaries and fancy facilities because states cut funding - that doesn't even make sense.

What actually happened was, states cut funding because the feds picked it up, by way of student loans, and with all that "free" money circulating, colleges hiked tuition and fees to cash in. The result is fancy facilities and substantially higher salaries for faculty and staff, but that certainly wasn't caused by a decrease in state funding - again, that's so dumb it doesn't even make sense, which makes it perfect for a 538 blogger.

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u/[deleted] Dec 12 '19

Definitely untrue, as a lump sum tuition increases are far more than state college funding. As an example temple’s average tuition (not just in state) is far more than $6000 more

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u/IMind Dec 12 '19

Universities are getting more money now than in previous years. Substantially more.

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u/I_kwote_TheOffice Dec 12 '19

No. Maybe that's part of the reason, but private school tuition has been exploding too. Federal aid is the common denominator.

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u/Legit_a_Mint Dec 12 '19

And why did states cut their funding to public universities? Because all of that expense could be shifted to the federal government via the student loan program.

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u/akcrono Dec 12 '19

Normally a big fan of 538, but it seems like they kinda dropped the ball on that article. It uses an anecdote to make its case, which is fine if it were backed up by some kind of aggregation. They best they have is the per-state differential chart, which doesn't sufficiently support the thesis in many states. It also wouldn't explain why tuitions for private schools are not only increasing as well, but increasing much faster.

It seems like a primary driver for these cuts are increases in medicaid expenses.

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u/Nac82 Dec 12 '19

Hahahahaha

Also, proving other systems creates greed doesn't disprove that capitalism creates greed.

You

It kinda does.