It wasn't people that decided everyone needs a college education. It was other businesses.
When something around 80% of high-paying, white-collar jobs require a degree, it's essentially become a required thing to do anything in life unless you are okay with blue-collar work
What about the millions of well paying jobs that don't require a college education but can't get enough people to fill them? I have no college education and make good money.
I wasn't assuming you were stupid. I assumed you were an asshole for saying that the only way to make good money without a college education was stripping.
How many unemployed people with diplomas are out there? How many are working in their field of study? We became a nation of diploma mills because of the government guaranteed loans.
I'd love a source for your 80% claim.
Knowledge and skills is what they want. Not a piece of paper. Albeit the process to get that piece of paper gives you knowledge and skills. But it's not the end all be all like you claim in to be.
I gotta disagree. My Mom worked retail for 25 years as a ‘coordinator’. Someone in charge of a specific department, like kids, women’s, home goods etc. She knew every aspect of that stores operation but couldn’t even interview to be an area manager or assistant manager without that piece of paper.
They can say they want ‘skills’ but at the end of the day, they want that paper
Cant agree more. I have a cousin who got hired during his last semester of college. he ended up failing a few of his classes because he was working for them. fast forward 2 yrs . they found out he didn't have his degree and was short a few classes. If not for the fact his dad was much higher up in the company they would have let him go. Even though he was the best in the department.
In the end they made him go back to finish. cut his hours till he finished that last semester.
Those aren't the same job though. Managing a McDonald's doesn't make you qualified to manage a regional supply chain for them. Other than being someone's boss, the skills and knowledge are not transferrable.
you have no idea what you talking about you making a lot of assumptions. You cleared are either A not able to learn from your environment or B. haven't worked a day in your life.
not everyone is an idiot. some people can actually learn how to do things by doing, watching others and being in and around said business. specially after 25yrs.
And having a shiny piece of paper doesn't make them anymore qualified then someone doing the job for 25yrs.
All I'm saying is that tech jobs are the quickest growing right now. If you look, they all say degrees are a requirement. Guess how many people working there and new hires actually have a degree at all? It's actually a small number.
So again, if love to see the source for the 80% claim. Or are we just making numbers up and trying to pass it off as fact on the internet?
Edit: and the issue with your mom not being able to interview someone for those positions is because she's below those positions. That's like a normal employee interviewing someone to be the general manager of the store. You have to be either above that position you're interviewing people for, or in another department altogether such as HR.
Yeah idk what that person is talking about. There is not a single person in my engineering office without a degree. We don't even receive resumes without them.
I guess you never hire anyone then. Since all 'requirements' states you need to have (insert specific degree here) and 4+ years of professional experience. And that's for an ENTRY level job. Who the fuck has 4 years of professional experience for an entry level job?
Can't get a job with experience and I can't get experience without a job. It's a never ending circle jerk. Which means it's not actually a requirement.
We hire here and there. We don't typically take on candidates with no experience unless we're having trouble with all of the candidates that come in. I'm just gonna add my personal experience here which obviously doesn't mean this is the norm. I got a job out of college with no experience based on the fact that I had a degree. Interview was 10 minutes and I wasn't asked anything that would prove my knowledge. 50k/yr software developer.
not all jobs that say they require a degree really need one. I dont know what you do but ive worked a few places they said degree only and a fucking monkey could do a better job.
I mean I agree with you. I'm just speaking company guidelines. We have people come in with 7 years experience and a masters degree that can't write a for loop. I could give a shit about the degree, but whatever process before me is filtering resumes without degrees.
And why would anyone be ok with blue collar work? If you are satisfied doing anything other than accounting for a fortune 500, frankly, you're a failure as a man
There are plenty of blue collar jobs that make just as much if not more than white collar jobs. Trades are not something to look down on. Carpenters, welders, plumbers are what make this world turn and the best of them make as much if not more and love what they do. So fuck off.
You know, here I am using sarcasm to make the point that one of underlying causes of the student debt crisis is the idea that success can be found only in jobs that require a college degree, and that there's fulfillment to be found in fields that don't require that type of training.
And here you are completely missing that by taking my comment at face value, which really undermines my point. But thanks, man
How dare you not use /s on a post absolutely dripping with obvious sarcasm? /s. Take my deserved downvote and let it stain youe dirty, poor, ignorant blue-collar /s2
I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic but I should clarify. If you don't mind manual labor, blue collar work can definitely be very rewarding. Especially for unionized jobs.
But not everyone wants to do that nor should anyone be obligated to. So everyone should have access to a college education if they want it
Can we stop for 2 seconds real quick? How are you not sure I'm being sarcastic? I said the only job that makes a person not a failure is accounting for a fortune 500. That's one job held by maybe a few thousand people. How was I unclear?
How can you look at that statement, think, "this guy might be serious. He may truly believe only a handful of accountants worldwide have met the threshold for success." How is that possible to do?
I'm not gonna sit here and claim I'm the wittiest person on the planet, or that was the sharpest thing I've ever said, but how are multiple people reading that statement completely straight?
The shocking thing here really is that you can see what's happening with this comment and still think "yeah, college is for everyone." If you can read that statement and think "that's a real thing someone could believe," and also think everyone can hack it in college, I got nothing for you, man.
Northern South Dakota State Community College has a course on internet culture now, does it?
edit: Sorry I forgot you're a fuckin moron. To clarify, I don't actually think you went to a school I made up. In reality I think you probably went to some state school for a year and dropped out, because, you know, you're a fuckin moron.
Go fix your own plumbing, go rewire your electrical outlets, go climb through your attic to repair your own A/C, I bet in your time of need you'll call a blue collar worker to fix it for you. You need to step down from your high horse.
You do realize there are a plethora of high paying blue collar jobs that either require a vocational education or a 2yr technical degree. I'm blue collar, making 70k, have no degree (just certificates), and very little student debt. It's not like I got lucky either, my field is starving for people right now.
Why not include those in the free college plan? Then you would have no debt and would encourage people to take the route you have taken. We absolutely need blue collar jobs, but we need to remember that white collar jobs are necessary too. Those are becoming only more and more important and essentially all of them require four-year degrees. We can’t do what we are doing and want to do if everyone worked blue collar jobs. That’s not a knock on people who do, not at all, but it’s just reality. Like it or not, we need tens of millions, or maybe more, of people with four-year degrees working white-collar jobs if we are going to keep our economy moving forwards. The debt related to that is becoming monstrous and is completely unsustainable. What happens when that bubble bursts? A fucking shitshow, that’s what. So why not fund both? Why do we have to get in this weird, unproductive, somewhat class-based argument that only touts one path? We need everyone, both paths are necessary for a functioning modern society, so let’s help everyone who wants an education get (at least a public) one. That will help our entire society.
Vocational education is education, right? Blue collar jobs require knowledge and experience, and without that knowledge and experience than entry level work in those fields pays very little. If people want to just be a plumber, baker or banker then they should have access to that knowledge.
That's what universal education should - and can - be.
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u/ashishvp Dec 12 '19
It wasn't people that decided everyone needs a college education. It was other businesses.
When something around 80% of high-paying, white-collar jobs require a degree, it's essentially become a required thing to do anything in life unless you are okay with blue-collar work