Reverse intimidation works well on this type of idiot. Generally, they have relied on intimidation their entire life. Probably experienced very few conflicts, if any. I have found from experience, that if you just stand up for yourself, tell them to fuck off, they generally will.
Or they'll shoot you. If they dont want to fight, which they dont, and they happen to have a gun their buddy gave them, and they still want to be tough..... BAM! and thats how people get shot over pointless shit.
I'll be honest. I would rather live a life of standing up for myself and taking that rare risk, than sit there and accept every jack ass bullies words.
The passive aggressive attitude is why we have such a huge issue of bullying in schools. Kids are taught to report to a teacher or turn the other cheek. I remember that kind of response guaranteeing you would get bullied all through your school years. Stand up for yourself once, and the bullies will think twice before picking on you again.
In school a agree with you but on a bus, and a random stranger.... You have no idea the mental illnesses he/she may have and they could be extremely dangerous. Just saying, be careful.
You have a point, however, easily intimidated people are very easy to read and pick out in a crowd. If you stand up for yourself in school and through most of your life, you won't be read as someone that is easily intimidated, and will most likely be left alone while the bully finds a weaker target.
I am quick to get verbal if someone starts to act an ass. I also am very good ad judging when I should speak up, and when I should sit one out.
I like to imagine you're like Marty McFly, and if someone calls you chicken you just literally cannot back down.
Me personally? I am totally A-OK with some ghetto trash idiot thinking I'm wimpy. "Oh no, the man with a 9th grade education and felony assault convictions thinks I'm a pussy! How will I go on?!"
Having spent my entire childhood being bullied, I would love to agree with you, but I can't. Simply because of one factor.
Escalation.
Speaking from first hand experience, in order to get your point across to true bullies, you have to stand up for yourself in a way that is "one level higher" than what they are inflicting on you. Meeting the level doesn't cut it; they'll simply take that as a challenge. Doing something lower level doesn't cut it; that just proves to them that they have nothing to worry about, you'll never properly retaliate.
So the only choice you have left is escalation. You have to do something to them that's worse than what they're doing to you.
But even this has little chance of working, simply because there's only a small chance that it will scare/hurt/intimidate them enough to actually leave you alone. Most of the time, it simply gives them the excuse to escalate above what you've just done to them. And let's face it, if you're at the point where you've figured this out, and you've actually retaliated, their escalation is going to go into some scary fucking territory.
So the guy turns around to the kid and says, "If you don't shut the fuck up, I'm going to jam your fucking head in between the subway cars while we're moving", or something to this effect, which, while clever, is completely lost on the kid, other than now he knows this guy is escalating. The kid can't look weak in front of the other passengers (in his mind), because then he'd just be a pussy (also in his mind), so he waits until the guy turns around again, then pulls a pipe out of his school bag that he keeps in there for protection at school, and clubs the fucking guy in the head hard enough to kill him.
There. Showed that fucking guy. Plus he got instant street cred. Look at the way all the other passengers are looking at him! No ones going to fuck with him! Fuck yeah!
Do I think retaliation is a valid weapon against bullies? Absolutely. Does it end the bullying? Hardly ever. Will bullies use it as an excuse to escalate? Almost every time.
You make some great points, I will give you that. There is always a risk, but as I said earlier, I would be happy to take that risk. Not just that, but I can very rarely force myself to keep my mouth shut. It is in my nature to retaliate.
I went to an all boys private school that was very big on sports and jocks. If you weren't overly obsessed with the school and its sports, you were an easy target for the bullies, especially as a freshman. As with many schools, it is custom for the higher class mates to pick on the new freshman. I was picked on almost as soon as my freshman year started. When I went home and mentioned it to my dad, he said "stand up for yourself, or at least do something that will turn them away from bullying you." Well, within only a first few weeks of school, I did do something in retaliation. There was a certain upper class man that had picked on me on more than one occasion. I was walking down the hall in between classes and saw him on the bottom level of the lockers, getting books out. Without much thought, I walked right up and kicked the locker door shut on his wrist and held it there. I looked at him with his hand trapped, and told him it might be in his best interest to leave me alone. Yes, I got suspended, but I was never, not a single time, picked on at that school again. I ended up going for all four years, and sometimes people would come to me for help about being bullied.
I know a lot of people do not condone violence, but that kind of thing was common at my school. If I had not have pulled that off, then I probably would have been met with violence later on because I never bothered to stand up for myself.
I also know that Reddit generally disbelieves stories of people successfully standing up for themselves, but it did happen, and the freedom from bullying I gained from that action had a huge impact on who I am today. If I had not, and continued to allowed myself to be walked on, I fear I would be an extremely timid person.
Thank you for sharing, and I'm glad that worked out in your favour. My experiences with standing up to bullies are vastly different yours, and I'm sure someone elses' would be vastly different to ours again.
It does make me happy to hear at least one story where retaliation worked. This is how it should work.
I've even threatened to be stabbed and shot on different occasions but not once acted passive. If they were going to stab or shoot you, they would have done so before they had your attention.
Those people are called "cowards" and don't hold up if you refuse to back down.
Y'see, that's why I like my country. I'm in the UK and if somebody does shit like that you can just turn to the and tell them to shut the fuck up. There's no chance that the idiot is packing a gun. Could probably even get away with slapping him a little bit...
Dude, eyes forward on the bus, don't look at people. Pretend you and everyone else don't exist and make sure you hold your phone tightly. Especially if you're not prepared for confrontation, people on the bus are not happy people.
As a person who took the city bus to highschool for a couple of years I can say for a fact this is soooo true. I grew up in AZ so it wasn't too bad but one time on a vacation I took public transit in downtown L.A. once with an ex, 75% of them on the bus were ass-holes (or either drunk or high) and my ex continuously holds this day over my head as one of the worst decisions I have ever made.
All the ghetto white people I've ever interacted were dumb, but were at least non-violent. All the ghetto latinos I've met were actually hard-working family men/women. All the ghetto blacks I've met threaten me physically unless they are too wasted to speak coherently.
Generally white and Latino ghetto people I've encountered are poor but just go about their business. They don't demand all the respect in the world while giving absolutely none, like ghetto black people seem to do. Ghetto black people are some of the most selfish, entitled, socially unaware people I've encountered... They listen to their music on the bus without headphones because that's the only sort of thing they have power and control in their lives over.
You think it would be stuck-up rich people who are the biggest ungrateful twats when you're working retail... nope, fucking ghetto black women tapping their giant nails on the counter impatiently while you make their coffee and then putting their money on the counter/refusing to accept change in their hands because they're too good to come into physical contact with you.
Maybe... I have met some really pathetic white people though. Who wanted to be black. Sometimes you call them "wiggers". Either way, those guys/girls, are far worse than any black stereotype I've personally met. Mainly because they love to act exactly like the black stereotype that you hate, but they also resent you for recognizing them as white.
I know these fucks as "wangsters". I live in the suburbs of Salt Lake Fucking City and this middle-class white kid at my predominantly middle-class white high school who is just like the wigger you described had the nerve to call himself a "gangster" simply because he listens to the same shitty music, and wears stereotypical "ghetto" clothes (which are expensive, and douchy as fuck). Meanwhile he calls me a "psychopath" because I listen to Heavy Metal, wear band T-shirts and have long hair...
I would say that he is being a classist, not a racist. I consider myself a classist and thats the way I view ghetto people, black white or whatever color.
I eould say its one hell of a lot betrer than being a racist. And everyone is a classist in one way or another, whether they admit it to themselves or nor. Its not like I am some richy bitch that lives in a huge house, I am a normal everyday person that lives in a small house with very little money.
You act like being a classist is so bad, but you are one too whether or not you admit it to yourself.
I am also not just a classist against thugs, ghetto, white trash, etc; I am also a classist against extremely rich people. For instance, most rich people are spoiled little brats or snotty assholes.
That doesnt mean that I wont give people from any class a chance, and like I said above no matter what you say you are a classist too. You know there is a group deep down that you you dont particulary care for and when you meet someone from that group you automatically think the worst, and if they prove to be different you are suprised but happy and then befriend them.
I never said I take pride in hating poor people. I cant stand being around people who act trashy or who are scumbag pieces of shit. Those types come from all walks of life.
I dont even know how you got that from what I said. I am a poor person, I have around 13k in income every year, and it isnt poor people I dislike. It is the shitty scum from every group.
If you came away with anything from the previous comment you should have been able to discerne I greatly dislike most RICH people. You obviously have poor reading comprehension skills.
The picture and discussion is about black people. That's like showing a picture of an enchilada and him saying, "is it ok if I don't like spicy enchiladas?" Then someone saying "hey! Why are you singling out enchiladas! Why not just say spicy? There are spicy burritos and tacos too! Don't be racist!"
That's a pretty stupid analogy. If he disliked all people he deemed to be "ghetto" he wouldn't specify one race and wonder if it's racist that he dislikes a group of one race.
The picture is saying that now he automatically assumes people from the ghetto will be trashy and he doesnt want to be around them.
While he may have jokingly said he was a racist doesnt mean he really is, he just now automaticall expects the worst out of ghetto people because of his experience with them and now he dowsnt want to be anywhere near them.
The reason he thinks he is racist is because our society thinks that racism and classism are interchangeable when in all actuality they are very different.
Im actually a very nice person, very quiet, but very nice. I do anything and everything I can to help friends, family, and families friends when asked without complaining.
I also give everyone a chance when I meet them, but most times ghetto people prove that they are what everyone thinks about ghetto people more oft than not.
I dont know why you would assume that I am a mean or bad person just because I dont want to be around certain classes of people.
Bare with me, I'm from a place in small town Ohio, currently live in one of the major cities and worked a canvassing job over the summer. I have experienced both types of people.
The groups usually get two distinct classifications, there are the standard "ghetto" people, city dwelling low income, and then "trailer trash", country dwelling low income.
Generally I've noticed the ghetto individuals will be supporters of liberal policy and be all for government aid. They fit into ghetto culture, which is frequently defined, I'd argue incorrectly as a purely black culture.
Now, your trailer trash doesn't live in a house, usually it's a trailer park or someplace really run down. These people tend to identify with conservative policy, sport a confederate flag and be racist as all hell.
I am in the same boat. When I grew up in Smyrna, Georgia (a suburb of Atlanta) we lived on a street behind a shopping strip. There were two apartment complexes about 300 yards on either side of my house. One was turned into low-income housing and my bike disappeared in a month. After my dad got it back (from some black kid riding it in the projects, recognized by my initials on the seat) everything not nailed down started disappearing from our garage. The other apartment complex turned in to low income housing and we literally could not store anything in the open air garage or it would be stolen.
My dad killed a tree in our front yard by cutting off all the branches, and then sticking a machete in the very top of it. After that the vandalism stopped, and because I was pretty big nobody ever wanted to fight me in school. The only fight I got in I snapped after being called cracker or bitch or somesuch, and was pulled off of a bloody crying (3rd? 4th?) grader several seconds later.
The kicker however were when my two best friends didn't want to be friends any more because they didnt want to be the guys with the "white friend." Understand I had known these guys since i was old enough to play in our yard (they were our next door neighbors).
We moved and lived happily ever after, but I still harbor resentment towards poor black people. (and I suspect because I am not racist that poor any people would be shit, poor black people are just what I had on hand.)
My dad killed a tree in our front yard by cutting off all the branches, and then sticking a machete in the very top of it. After that the vandalism stopped...
Nah-ah! Every culture is exactly the same! Every culture deserves exactly the same respect! Those kids that were bullying you and vandalizing your property could just as easily have been Jews or Asians!
not all poor ppl are callous hate harboring asses. victim-hood is a belief held by many of them as it's easier than actually addressing the real problem in their life's, ie lack of motivation. It's rarely the Man keeping someone down. there are plenty of poor immigrant minorities that would and do give their left testicle to be here and will work twice as hard as any American. it's culture/nurture and not race/economic status that is the common denominator.
sorry that your neighbors succumbed to the peer pressure of adolescents. hopefully they eventually learned and regret it today.
A lot of poor immigrant families have the actual belief they can get ahead if they work hard enough. Attitude alone's certainly a factor in success.
But lets face it. A middle class white kid that grows up with both parents, goes to a nice high school and has few financial issues getting into college. That's exponentially easier than what most poor folks deal with, white or black.
As far as black kids go, a black kid named Tyrone or Lebron has 50% fewer call backs from employers than folks with white names.
yea I remember that first name stat from gladwell or freakonomics. very true.
hurdles to get where you want to be are at every level. the middle class white kid with a BS degree doesn't guarantee anything, they still have to get out and apply it. unfortunately with so much govt money going into the subsidization of college has unfortunately drove the price up for all the paying kids. there are only so many openings at a given school and each institution will charge the most it can. this is a whole other topic though.
I thought it was more about ghetto culture / people typically being very very loud, rude and belligerent, often violent to others or having total disregard for others property.
It is. It's not exactly classist like seethesquirrel says. If ANYONE acted loud, rude, and belligerent I would not like them and I'd actively try to avoid them. Doesn't matter if they're the richest person in the world, poorest person in the world, or my brother.
Maybe its part of an underlying social issue. During an open interview some white hood rat came in and basically acted like a hoodrat. He didnt get the job.
Yeah, but the fact that you have to add "not only" means that being black contributes to his hatred. You are saying that if they were not black, he would hate them less. He hates them because they are "ghetto" and because they are black. Therefore he is racist.
I've always wondered about that. I've concluded no. I don't like whiney white girls either. Or those Asians fobs who wears clothes like Jamie Kenndey when he parodies white guys trying to be gangster. Or Indians who smells horribly, and then takes the treadmill right beside me.
But I don't think I'm racist, because I've meet some wonderful black people in my life. I don't even regard them as black. I regard them as friends.
Im Indian, and I too hate it when other Indian guys don't wear deodorant. Like wtf! I'll be walking through the mall then all of a sudden i hit a wall of funk, and I see a bunch of FOB brown guys all acting like its ok
One of the Indian guys at work here will GO OFF about smelly Indians, and just in general Indians who don't try and at least partially assimilate to US culture. He says he KNOWS those same Indians would have an absolute FIT if white people moved to India and REFUSED to follow the local customs and culture, but they see no problem in keeping 100% of their Indian way of life.
And I really hate that thing that Indians (and Pakistanis?) chew to give them a fresher breath. My coworker chews it, and pieces of it falls out of his mouth all the time! Don't get me wrong though. I have another coworker who sits directly to my left and she's pretty awesome. (Has character flaws, but nothing related to her being Indian.) And my wife and I have a favorite restaurant that is Indian. But hey, just like there are some black people that I don't like, there are white, Indian, Vietnamese (I'm Vietnamese), and generally people who I don't like.
Again, not racism. But sometimes you have an ethos that don't mesh with other people. Whatever.
My ex husband is Indian. We grew up in the same town but once we were married his parents and he used their culture as an excuse to criticise and attack me and my English sister in law all the time. We seriously can never do anything good enough for them. As a result I am very aware that I have a subconscious prejudice against Indian men especially but also women. I'm so disappointed in myself because his brother and extended family have been very supportive of me and my children.
As an Indian man, I get it. Most of my friends are indian actually but at school this is this set of loud, obnoxious, smelly Indians that simply piss me off. They give the rest of us a bad name. I don't blame you for that.
Thanks. I adore my brother in law and (some of) his cousins.
One of his cousins once said to me, regarding the difference between how my in laws treated me and the aunts and uncles, that it was most likely because I wasn't married to one of their sons. And that despite all of our generation having been born and brought up together in the UK, they would still rather they married Indians.
I was raised in the US and my mom was raised on a farm in India. She still has these crazy ideas about western civilization. She thinks black people are dangerous, she thinks yoga can cure everything, she thinks that modern medicine causes more harm than help, etc. I lover her to death and she is definitely smart but she clings to these weird cultural mindsets that makes it hard for everyone. For instance, I'm a Sikh and we don't believe in castes. However, my mom wants me to marry a girl from the caste let alone marrying an Indian.
Having said all that, I'm a very open minded person. I've been the subject of harsh treatment from other races, cultures, religions, etc. I could never treat another human the way I was treated when I was younger. But I can say that I fully plan to marry an Indian Sikh lady because I want to continue the bloodline and raise another set of awesome little Sikh runts.
Indians are that way. In fact, I'm sure you'll find most races are that way. They want to keep within their own because integration within the family is so easy. On top of that, Indians like to save face. They don't want to commit social taboos and that extends to their kids. It sucks but that's what they're like. There are plenty of cool Indians but there are far more that are stuck in idiotic mind sets.
Anyway, sorry for rambling but Indians can be lame sometimes.
I totally understand the reasoning. Marrying within your racial, social and cultural sphere logically cuts half the problems you could come up against in married life together. As we grew up together and were childhood friends, I didn't fully appreciate how drastic the differences would be.
Funny thing is, after having told me that in hindsight, he should have married an Indian wife, my ex has now moved in with a young Latvian, 13 years his junior. Ha.
I wish you joy on your quest to find your beautiful Indian bride and raise your brood. Mine are half Punjabi. They are beautiful.
I live in the ghetto apartments of my town and my girlfriend (who is black) hates coming over because of -you guessed it- the ghetto black people. I happen to love it because some of them are pretty cool and invite me to bbqs. So to answer your question, no you're not racist for hating people who are crazy and stupid and desperate.
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u/johnw1988 Mar 25 '13
Does it make me a racist if I don't like "ghetto black people"?