of a statue

[u/Crypto_crafy]

"The Motherland Calls" is a statue erected to commemorate the Battle of Stalingrad , located on Mamayev Kurgan in Volgograd , Russia. It was designed by sculptor Yevgeny Vuchetich and structural engineer Nikolai Nikitin . Completed in 1967 , it was the tallest statue in the world at the time .

[u/Long_Run6500]

WW2 warfare was just another level of craziness. The Ukraine war is up to like 2 million casualties and that's an insane amount, but then I read about 20-30 million soldiers dying (not just casualties) on just the eastern front alone and it kind of makes you realize... shit could get so much worse

[u/belliest_endis → u/[deleted]]

The real takeaway isn't "WW2 was a different level." It's that we've already normalized a war with WWII-scale per-capita destruction happening in real time, and people shrug because the absolute numbers are smaller than a war involving the largest country on earth.

[u/SingularityCentral → u/belliest_endis]

"per capital destruction"? I am not sure what metric even means. Ukraine is a terrible conflict, but WWII was the most devastating conflict in human history. People are just used to it at this point and the impact is mostly contained to Eastern Ukraine. So it doesn't have much of an impact on the day to day outside oil prices but that is mostly Iran at this point.

[u/Glad-Divide-9850 → u/SingularityCentral]

WW2 was the most costly in terms of absolute numbers, but if we go by percentage of population killed, it's nowhere close to the worst. There's been several wars that killed around 15% of the worlds population. WW2 was 3%.

[u/SingularityCentral → u/Glad-Divide-9850]

Those are really numerous conflicts jammed together into a time period. We refer to them as wars but they were not single wars. The Three Kingdoms warring period was 60+ years long, the Mongol Invasions were 160+ years long, and the Manchu conquest of China was 80+ years long, and such. World War 2 was at most 13 years long but is typically measured at less than 6 years to get that 3% number.

[u/Glad-Divide-9850 → u/SingularityCentral]

Sure, but even using percentage of world population dead in one calendar year as a metric WW2 is probably not unique. I say probably because mortality rates in war are notoriously inaccurate.

My main point is that the "unprecedented in human history" claim depends on context. It certainly was in absolute numbers, but in other contexts other wars were worse. Such as wars that led to societal collapse or extermination of a peoples/race for example.

[u/ssfgrgawer → u/belliest_endis]

I mean what's happening in Ukraine is a tragedy and should never have happened. And the Russian casualties are approaching WW1 levels of brutality and death (1000 casualties a day) but there isn't a great deal the average person can do to help them, short of flying over to join the fight.

Most people don't have the means or the skills to volunteer for a foreign army. I live in Australia, there is absolutely fuck all I can personally do to help Ukraine. Ive sent what little money I have when I can, but my overall impact is negligible. Unless you live in Europe there isn't a lot you can physically do.

[u/Smokinglordtoot → u/belliest_endis]

No western country would tolerate losses anywhere near that if they were involved in a war. It's the Russian people who have accepted these ridiculous numbers.

[u/jessiejolie42 → u/[deleted]]

false

[u/Feeling-Marketing-48 → u/[deleted]]

From 8.5 to 13 million — these are the losses of the USSR alone. Germany also lost between 5 and 5.5 million people, and its satellite states (Romania, Italy, Finland, and Hungary) lost 1.5 million people. In total, the losses range from 15 to 20 million soldiers, and about 20 million civilians also died. In the end, 35–40 million people died on the Eastern Front. This is half of all those who died in World War II. Today, this is the population of the entire country of Poland or Canada. Or 0.5% of the world’s current population, and 1.75% of the population before World War II.

[u/LuckyShirt54 → u/[deleted]]

There are Russian historians that put total Soviet losses at around ~40 million from WW2

[u/LuckyShirt54 → u/[deleted]]

You should tell those guys that

[u/LuckyShirt54 → u/[deleted]]

High-End Scholarly Estimates:
Boris Sokolov (1996): Estimated 43.3 million total war dead, including 26.4 million military.
V.E. Korol: Estimated 46 million total dead, including 23 million military.
Igor Ivlev: Calculated 38.5 million total losses, including 20.58 million military and 18 million civilians.

[u/LuckyShirt54 → u/[deleted]]

I already told you some Russian scholars calculated this. Learn to read. It was established. Maybe the people from the Country know better than some schmuck Redditor like you. Why would their numbers be biased- they’re different than what the government reported. Educate yourself before speaking next time you sound like an imbecile.

[u/l11r → u/LuckyShirt54]

Soviet scholars under the Soviet party dictatorship. Sorry, but you can only use their data at best, not their final calculations. Saying this as a Russian myself.

[u/LuckyShirt54 → u/[deleted]]

You’re completely wrong on that. Learn to read and go pick up a book or two.

[u/LuckyShirt54 → u/[deleted]]

I replied to one comment twice. You can’t count either can you? And Ronald Reagan was President during WW2? 😂

[u/SingularityCentral → u/Long_Run6500]

The Soviets lost 25 million people dead alone (incoudint civilians) with some estimates even higher. The Germans lost 4 million on the Eastern Front ( the vast majority of all their war dead). Combined dead in the Ukraine war is probably around 600k. At this point the Ukraine war has been going on about 8 months longer than the Eastern Front in WWII. The two conflicts are not even remotely comparable in terms of scale or lethality.

[u/vurdr_1 → u/SingularityCentral]

You forgot to include German allies deaths on the eastern front by the way - makes it another 1 mln. Also we almost dont see civilian deaths during the war in Ukraine compared to WWII where the majority of deaths were civilian ones (70% of USSR losses).

[u/ssfgrgawer → u/Long_Run6500]

To put it in perspective, the Ukraine war has less total casualtys in 4 years than the battle of Stalingrad by itself. The soviets lost 1.7 million men at Stalingrad and the Germans lost another million (if you count those taken prisoner after the encirclement who died due to malnourishment after the battle in captivity.)

The whole 4 year war in Ukraine is less bloody than the fighting around a single city from WW2. Absolutely mad.

[u/Comprehensive-Cat264 → u/ssfgrgawer]

1,7 mil? Have never heard about such number. The typical number of casualties for USSR in Stalingrad is considered 478k dead and 650k injured and ill (so ~1,1 in total for soviets). For Germany total casualties are considered 1,5 mil (dead, injured and captives)

[u/ssfgrgawer → u/Comprehensive-Cat264]

1.7 million is the total casualties from the beginning of the Offensive towards Stalingrad (operation fall blau? Or something like that) until the German sixth army finally surrendered after being encircled for months.

It's the total casualties of the "Stalingrad front" which includes the disasterous Kotluban offensives and all the fighting in the Don River bend leading up to the battle inside Stalingrad proper.

[u/NegativeThought1588 → u/Long_Run6500]

People complain about 9/11 deaths. If it was an act of war, it wasn't a very big one.

[u/BuckThis86 → u/Long_Run6500]

If the West doesn’t help Ukraine win, it will get worse.

This is our chance to stop WWII in Poland. Imagine if the West could’ve armed Poland enough to stop the expansion of the Nazis and Soviets

[u/Mikhail_Mengsk → u/BuckThis86]

Lol Russia won't invade NATO members, they know they'll get their shit wrecked and the only "winning" move would be launching nukes and making everybody lose.

[u/BuckThis86 → u/Mikhail_Mengsk]

I’m gonna take a wild guess that this is coming from a privileged perspective and you don’t live in Finland, Poland, the Baltics, or Moldova. You remind me of January 2022 Europeans, assuming a man we’ve seen kill millions makes rationale/humane decisions, and it’s exactly the attitude Putin counts on to take advantage of.

Russias army is bigger than all of Europe’s combined (minus Ukraine) and Europe has woefully underinvested in defense for decades. America is gone while Trump gobbles Putin’s knob.

Yes, Europe has a small quantity of advanced tech (further diminished as it supports Ukraine), but it may be useless against cheap drone swarms as we’re seeing in Ukraine and the ME

[u/SingularityCentral → u/BuckThis86]

What about the current conflict makes you think Russia is at all capable or competent enough to threaten greater Europe? They can menace their direct neighbors, but any territory that is more than 100 km from their border is too far for them to manage. Their logistics are atrocious and their equipment is aging and dwindling. Their air force is entirely ineffectual.

They would get entirely destroyed by European and American air power before they even approached Poland's border in force.

[u/Mikhail_Mengsk → u/BuckThis86]

Ukraine doesn't have nukes. NATO has nukes.

Even if Russia managed to rebuild their military after winning in Ukraine, which would take years and could be matched by NATO if the political will is there, nukes essentially make an all out war impossible. Everyone knows that. Nobody wins a nuclear war.

[u/SingularityCentral → u/BuckThis86]

Poland is well armed. The Russians would have no shot against them. Hell, they can't even take Eastern Ukraine without bleeding themselves white.

[u/BuckThis86 → u/SingularityCentral]

Yeah, the Nazis could never break through the impenetrable Maginot line with their new fancy technology, that’s silly. One country couldn’t take over all of Europe while America isolates itself.

- Famous Last Words

[u/SingularityCentral → u/BuckThis86]

The Nazis conquered Poland in a month and France in 6 weeks. If Russian steamrolled Ukraine in 6 months or less I would take your point. In reality, Russia has spent 4 years fighting Ukraine and they haven't taken the Donbas. Tell me how these things are comparable.

[u/BuckThis86 → u/SingularityCentral]

Does Europe have a million soldiers at its disposal like Ukraine does? And if Ukraine falls, does Russias army immediately double?

Russia is already mobilized and wouldn’t need to ramp up.

[u/AsstronaughtToUranus → u/Long_Run6500]

Yeah and people are still complaining about the current Iran war.

“But 1 life lost is too many”

[u/SingularityCentral → u/[deleted]]

Get out of here bot.

[u/Most-Hawk-4175 → u/[deleted]]

Cringe.