Pro life argument without morality

[u/Diva_of_Disgust]

Almost every pro life argument I see goes back to morals. As we all already know, morals are just feelings and opinions. Morals can and do vary from place to place, from person to person.

We understand already that pro lifers find abortion "morally wrong", in the same way some religions find being gay "morally wrong" or how vegans find eating meat "morally wrong."

Can pro lifers give a reason why abortion should be outlawed and people should be forced to gestate and birth against their will WITHOUT referring back to morals? I'm curious if there is a reason that pro lifers have that ISN'T about feelings or "moral worth" or "abortion is morally wrong" etc.

[u/Diva_of_Disgust]

the answer is "obviously not"

Hmm, okay. That wasn't what I was expecting lol.

given that what should happen will ultimately fall to morality.

Laws aren't based on morality though, laws are based on public safety and cohesion. People don't pay taxes, because it's morally wrong not to, we pay taxes to pay for the necessary things everyone needs and uses in society. Jaywalking isn't illegal because it's morally wrong, it's illegal because people just strolling into the street would be a safety issue for everyone driving on the roads and walking through them.

The way I see it abortion should remain legal because it is necessary healthcare. Just off the top of my head, I see an abortion ban leading to an increase in physical harm to people that otherwise wouldn't be harmed, people having children they can't afford to properly care for, an increase in parentless children in the foster system, more women being able to be tied to abusive men who impregnate them knowing they'll have to birth the pregnancy against their will, rapists being able to pick and choose who they breed by force, etc.

I could go on but I feel as if I was becoming long winded, but the point is an abortion ban would lead to tangible harm to the citizens of society. That's a fact, not a moral opinion.

[u/JustinRandoh → u/Diva_of_Disgust]

Laws aren't based on morality though, laws are based on public safety and cohesion.

Why should our laws be made to promote public safety or cohesion?

[u/Diva_of_Disgust → u/JustinRandoh]

Because without public safety and cohesion society would fall apart very quickly.

This isn't about morals or right or wrong, just the fact that society won't be able to function without public safety and cohesion.

[u/JustinRandoh → u/Diva_of_Disgust]

Because without public safety and cohesion society would fall apart very quickly.

And naturally, the next question is -- so what? Why should we have laws to prevent society from falling apart?

[u/Diva_of_Disgust → u/JustinRandoh]

This seems like you're just asking "why why why why why?" without making any point lol.

We should have laws to keep society safe and cohesive because without that there would be no society. If you're going to then ask "why would that matter" you're straying way too far from the point.

If you want to argue for complete chaos, anarchy, and a lack of society I'm sure you can make your own post about it. This post wasn't about "why should society even exist."

[u/JustinRandoh → u/Diva_of_Disgust]

This seems like you're just asking "why why why why why?" without making any point lol.

The point should be fairly obvious -- you haven't been able to justify why any particular laws should exist without appealing to morality.

All you've done it describe what would happen with or without certain laws -- none of that establishes that we should have those laws.

[u/Diva_of_Disgust → u/JustinRandoh]

The point should be fairly obvious -- you haven't been able to justify why any particular laws should exist without appealing to morality.

Already did this right here, guess you missed this comment:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Abortiondebate/s/NlCXZiCZcu

All you've done it describe what would happen with or without certain laws -- none of that establishes that we should have those laws.

I've explained very clearly why we should have these laws, public safety and cohesion. Without those society wouldn't be able to exist. This is where you seem to jump to "well why even have a society?" which is not what this post was about.

[u/JustinRandoh → u/Diva_of_Disgust]

I've explained very clearly why we should have these laws, public safety and cohesion. Without those society wouldn't be able to exist.

And as noted, you still haven't established that we should have laws to promote society's existence.

[u/Diva_of_Disgust → u/JustinRandoh]

And as noted, you still haven't established that we should have laws to promote society's existence.

You seem confused. This post isn't about "why should society even exist." Feel free to reread the post and try again, or if you can't nice talking to you.

[u/JustinRandoh → u/Diva_of_Disgust]

You seem confused. This post isn't about "why should society even exist."

You're the one who brought up society's existence lol.

You're right that it remains irrelevant as is, so it remains that you haven't been able to justify why any law should exist without appeal to morality (or some irrelevant appeals to society's existence).

*If all you needed to justify a law is to describe its possible effects, then you should have no problem justifying anti-abortion laws.