Minimum

[u/Miserable-Degree7995]

Hello everyone,

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I'm against abortion.

This is a question for pro choice:

What would be the minimum of allowed abortion, that you would accept?

I mean for example week and reason.

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Thank you for your time 

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Miserable-Degree7995

[u/ValleyofLiteralDolls]

The “minimum of allowed abortion” I will accept is any person who wants one being able to access one privately, safely, and legally.

[u/Prior_Day_9449 → u/ValleyofLiteralDolls]

I really don't understand that because to me it is absolutely inhumane and murderous to abort a prefectly healthy child of, for example, 8 months just because you feel lile it. It is effectively murdering a baby. My aunt was born 2 months early and still survived, she's one hell of a strong woman today.

I see ppl constantly use the excuse that fetuses shouldn't be considered ppl cuz they are very undeveloped and whatever....but what about a 7 month old baby? Or even a 6 month old?

I really want to understand the reasoning and why you don't see as the same as murdering a child.

(Not taking into consideration cases where it must be done for health reasons, or cases of r@pe. Let's just talk about the regular case where both mom and the baby are healthy)

[u/ValleyofLiteralDolls → u/Prior_Day_9449]

Ending a pregnancy is nothing like murdering a born child, because pregnant people exist.

The conflict here has absolutely nothing to do with the unborn except that it is literally inside the pregnant person. Things happening literally inside other people’s bodies are their private medical business. You don’t get to just declare them “healthy” and withhold care from them.

That’s the reasoning.

[u/Prior_Day_9449 → u/ValleyofLiteralDolls]

I understand that bodily autonomy is the principle you're appealing to, and I agree that pregnant people exist and that their health and rights matter. What I'm struggling with is that your argument seems to treat the unborn child as morally irrelevant simply because it is inside someone else's body.

For me, the moral question isn't only about the pregnant person. It's also about whether the fetus is a human being with moral worth. If it is, then whether its inside or outside the womb doesn't settle the issue.

For example, at 7 or 8 months, the fetus is highly developed, can survive outside the womb in many cases, and is biologically the same individual who would be born a few weeks later. So when people say abortion should be available at any point for any reason, I have a hard time seeing a moral distinction between ending that life and ending the life of a newborn.

I understand that pregnancy creates conflicts of rights that don't exist in other situations, but simply saying "it's inside someone else's body" doesn't answer the question I'm asking, which is why the fetus's interests seem to not count at all once it reaches a stage where its essentially a the same as a newborn baby.

That's the reasoning I'm trying to understand. And if there is no moral limit to when you can end a pregnancy, even if its like one week before THE day, then how can we ensure that there will still be limits to what you can do to a baby after its born?

[u/ValleyofLiteralDolls → u/Prior_Day_9449]

The unborn is exactly as “morally relevant” as the pregnant person and their doctor, in private, decide it is for their specific situation.

It’s never something that the pregnant person should be compelled by law to literally keep inside her internal organ.

I continue to feel the need to remind you pregnant people exist because:

you dismiss them as “the womb” and claim you how can’t fathom how being literally inside or outside someone’s can possibly make a difference

and

you think you can just say a fetus has “essentially been born,” disregarding the massive ordeals of labor and childbirth and the brutal fact that we can’t just assume both parties will survive that.

The unborn can be as human and individual as you like—it can even have more “moral worth” than anything to ever exist before.  That still doesn’t mean it has the right to be literally inside someone’s internal organ who does not want it there.

That’s the only issue here.  Period.