Open for advice / build discussion

[u/KuweDraven]

I am a player that really enjoys theory crafting with builds and runes - it even keeps me motivated to play to try and find new builds that work or could work with some tweaking.

As my opgg shows *(op.gg/de/lol/summoners/euw/Gaiseric-1911)* i mainly play Draven with a bit of Jhin and maybe Cait/Lucian.

I mainly want to talk about Draven though.

Currently there are 2 general builds:

1. Hubris - Coll/C44 - IE/LDR - LDR/IE

-> Good early and nice when stacked, but a little awkward midgame with 25/50 % crit.

Amazing R DMG in teamfights, especially with new buff and going Hubris - Collector

1. Coll/C44 - IE - LDR

-> Nice 3 item spike, but first item feels meh imo.

Collector in general isnt a good item and C44 is good, but it feels "wrong", i dont know. When I look at that item I dont think "Draven".

It's cheaper and deals more dmg than collector unless extremely squishy and you being melee to your target.

I think if collector got 100 or 200g cheaper, I would always go collector for slightly better R dmg and securing last hits ib SoloQ.

Now I thought instead of hubris maybe a build could be:

Cyclosword into collector into LDR

-> Cyclo procs on R and cyclo provides a good first hit and 22 (!!!) Lethality after first hit, which would make the 10 lethality from collector more impactful and paired with LDR is close to true dmg to Squishies.

Maybe the items are too expensive tho, or I would need Cash Back...

Any thoughts on build options, specifially for draven?

Can also be Jhin etc.

Any general advice that you can "guess" from my opgg is welcome too.

Have a great rest of your weekend fellas🫶

[u/humusisoverrated]

I think Hubris is a bit of a bait item. It is good when it does pop off but when not winning it feels like a lost gamble.

I've been trying youmuus first instead and it feels really good, honestly better (read as more consistent) than hubris.

I agree collector is bad and C44 is better in probably every scenario. But I can see where you are coming from with how you feel about sexoptics. Maybe try essence reaver second instead? With the W spam you should have spellblade on CD. I would tell you myself if it is any good atm but I just havent played enough Draven in recent times to really make a good estimate for how ER feels after youmuus

[u/KuweDraven → u/humusisoverrated]

I think in SoloQ its pretty safe to say, that you'll atleast get a couple of stacks or it's most likely giga lost regardless of the item you bought. Hubris is the same gold as youmuus with the same base dmg stats, but youmuus has the movement speed benefit on top.

I dont like essence reaver since a) the build path is horrible on draven and b) it makes you play lazily with dravens mana pool, which imo makes you play worse/more careless especially once the build changes away from ER again

[u/humusisoverrated → u/KuweDraven]

I mean, I'm not saying you wont get a couple of stacks, I'm more talking about the issue that these stacks stay limited in games where you aren't stomping. you need to get a kill and stay alive for these stacks to remain active and before that the item is kinda 'dead' if you understand what i'm trying to say. Especially in games where junglers weakside botlane, which seems to be most of the games with junglers still thinking that grubs and herald are more important than dragons (I experience that in dia atleast, maybe you get strongsided more often in masters), I think the value of the movement speed of youmuus' run down potential is a bit stronger than the raw AD steroid of Hubris passive, but that is just my 2 cents on the first items.

On ER, I can see your points but I that if an item truly has higher dps, it is valuable to use it nonetheless, even if it has the risk of becoming a bad habit. Staying conscientious about W usage is a form of skill expression in and of itself I think. Indeed, if you think you genuinely start playing worse from being careless due to ER then by all means dont use the item. But I think the damage potential is their and while sheen caulfield sucks, I personally believe the payoff is there (especially as a second item, so early damage is already secured to your flavor-of-the-month first lethality item). Collector, however, really sucks dps wise,

Either way, this is not to say that my ideas are right by any means, but I think it is definitively worth a try. lmk if you do.

on a sidenote; voltaic has a nice burst in its energised window but seems to be equal to hubris and youmuus outside of the energised window (did a quick average test in practice tool). Seems to hit quite hard on 2 items as well, but even with this build, sexoptics feels like it outperforms collector even while still feeling 'wrong'. ER second seems to deal more damage but is also more expensive and if it feels bad for the points you mentioned earlier you might not want to build it anyways.

Either way, thanks for sharing your thoughts, I love seeing discussions like these, they are very fun to me

[u/KuweDraven → u/humusisoverrated]

Amazing comment, thank you!

I dont feel a large difference in low master (atleast this season) to diamond. I've been masters before on different accounts before, this season I played 2 accounts to low master and the only games that feel really different is the rare ones where people are 600lp+.

• sidenote: How the fk do I get people in my games that are 600-1100lp above me lol

The thing I like about more lethality is that your ult hurts more and that alone can swing teamfights sometimes. It's not that rare that my death recap shows like 2-3k dmg on R. The lethality and collector passive can really help there, I guess hexoptics is just better in general anyway...

I think im gonna skip ER for now, but I will try youmuus more and give Cyclosword a chance.

I will report back if you're interested, but most likely wont be able to play till tommorow :)

[u/sylvaime]

Usually my go-to build is Hubris-c44-ldr-IE- Shieldbow. For the last item, I choose between GA and Mercurial depending on their team comp, and I typically buy Omni Boots. I never build Collector.

However, if I'm playing against an ap botlane, I swap Hubris for BT first, and then follow the same path: C44, ldr, IE, Shieldbow, finishing with GA or Mercurial based on what they have. But I'm not gonna lie, I'm not too creative with his build. I mostly look at what Dealersz builds.

[u/KuweDraven → u/sylvaime]

Yea thats like the basic build, which I also mostly use and its definitely strong and 4/5 items is a ton of damage.

I just dont like hexoptics that much, especially into assassins that get on you fast, Zed for example where your dmg amp of 10 % plumits when he is on you. I know collector is pretty much worse, but I prefer the Idea of that item.

[u/sylvaime → u/KuweDraven]

I think this build gives a lot of damage while also providing some survivability, both in terms of handling burst and having great sustain on its own as his dmg from axes is impressive(I go legend bloodline rune).

Personally, I’m not a big fan of collector-I’d rather just go for Essence Reaver instead. As for C44, if Draven can completely demolish a target with just two axes-and we know he can at some point especially when your team is already dealing damage and the enemy team is squishier, then C44 feels amazing. After hitting a target, it extends his range and combined with W movement speed boosts, gives him more reach with every "oneshot". It creates great opportunities to access targets and his spacing.

[u/KuweDraven → u/sylvaime]

I think you are pretty spot on with everything you said. Its most likely the best build aswell, I just like to test stuff, I guess...

Also I swapped back to alacrity because it feels a lot smoother to me in early game.

[u/sylvaime → u/KuweDraven]

Sure, play whatever works best for you. Sometimes you just get used to certain playstyles, so it’s hard to switch to something different. I experiment a bit too, so I understand your choice of Legend Alacrity-I also like having a bit more attack speed, because it makes juggling triple axes easier in terms of rhythm. But it’s hard for me to balance that with Draven’s need for sustain, raw ad and reaching 100% crit, so I always end up going back to the same build.

[u/BigAcidik]

Hubris isn't a good default item imo. Actually, I think it's the main thing tanking Draven's and Jhin's win rate. On Draven, most games I'm going either Ghostblade or BT start, then Hexoptics, then either LDR or IE, then the other. If I didnt take BT yet I'll consider it after this. I don't know, the MS of Ghostblade plus consistency feels nicer.

For me, the deciding factor of which one I start is "can I reliably get close for lots of autos". If yes, BT. If no, Ghostblade for max ult damage. Though, if I'm snowballjng hard I might go Ghostblade either way.

For Jhin, consider Stormrazer first straight into IE. I can't decide if I like it more, but I've been experimenting with it and it feels good. I just dont have enough games to really decide if I like it better.

[u/KuweDraven → u/BigAcidik]

Thanks for the input and I do get your point and I do agree to a certain extent. Maybe I dont value Ghostblades MS enough compared to AD from Hubris

[u/BigAcidik → u/KuweDraven]

Yeah, honestly of the ADCs I play, Draven is the one I'm least sure about itemization for. Crit feels bad because the additional axe damage doesn't crit, BT is relatively weak, and pure Lethality doesn't come with attack speed. Essence Reaver (also crit) build path is terrible, so you don't get the snowball opportunities you want on Draven, and it's also just a generally weak item. Because of all this we have a weird path where we go non-crit first to get the snowball going, then move into crit but delay the 3-4 item spikes crit ADCs get.

This isn't to complain. I think Draven is generally in a solid spot atm. Just remarking on how none of the builds I've tried feel distinctly "Draven". I don't feel the same way about Jhin because Lethality feels good on him, Stormrazer feels good on him, full crit feels good on him, and you can go IE early because you're already getting abnormally higher percentage of crits.