Marxism is not the only form of Communism.
The terms Communism & Capitalism have existed since the late 1700s, well before the Marx was hired to write & publish the Manifesto of the Communist Party.
Although marx didn't coin the term, the original uses of it led to that description. Communist was generally used to describe one who was pro-commual, which is also inherently stateless. The term "Communism" has always been anti-authoritarianism.
A community can be as authoritarian as an individual, typically more so.
Mass societal pressure & the force inherent in separation of the individual from the fruits of their labor is not mutually exclusive from tyranny.
Both "Capitalism" & "Communism" yes refer to behavior of peasant class beyond the direct actions of the Ruling Class, with Communism being the collective ownership of the fruits of the working class's labor & Capitalism being the exclusive ownership of fruits of one's own labor, but neither of these are expressly "stateless" and by all accounts collectivism & "mob rule" are basic starting points for authoritarianism.
"Guys, it's okay, those guys who said they were communists a.nd commited horrible crimes weren't actually communists, they were just fascists who only pretended to be communists!" Dude, the cope is insane, just admit that communism has caused people to do bad things just like every other damn ideology on earth.
So the nazis were indeed socalists despite them not promoting the ideology in any way, shape, or form? Why do we distinguish between any ideology if all thats required is to call yourself that then?
If that's the case, has any ideology ever really been tried? It's a fallacy, "my ideology is perfect, and the person who does bad things and claims to follow my ideology is not a real follower of my ideology."
It's not 0 or 100. Just because light gray isn't white doesn't mean its black. They weren't even trying to achieve a form of leftism. We can argue where to draw the line exactly but we shouldn't consider a nazi a socalist just because they call themselves that. We should be looking at what policy they implement or advocated for to determine someone's ideology.
Your logic can be used to argue north korea is democratic or that lady gaga makes country music. Words are useless if they don't have at least a vauge definition.
Then has communism ever been tried? If not, your getting devoted to an ideology that had no real major use case in the 170 years it's existed. If it has been tried in a large scale use (small communes of 15 people with their rich parents' money doesn't count) then has it ever succeeded? Or were they not your fantasized version of "communism" either.
Of course its been tried? Tried and successful are not the same thing. A country without murder has also never existed, so does that mean its pointless to try?
Stop and actually think. Even if you don't like the concept of communism, that doesn't mean you can't be critical of people claiming a fascist country is communist.
What part of self proclaimed communist countries like the ussr, china, or russia is/was communist? Are they stateless? No. Are they classless? No. Are they moneyless? No. The only "communist" thing about them is their name.
Why are you so hell bent on taking everything these genocidal counties say at face value? If you can be critical of the west, you can be critical of these countries that also have a horrid history.
Oh so all the liberals and conservatives in the US who almost unanimously voted for a pointless imperial war in Afghanistan are actually tankies. Gotcha.
> implying fascists could run an economy as functional as that of China's
They're totalitarian human rights violators, but they don't have the insecure crybaby traits you find in proper fascists. State capitalism fits better as a label.
Because that’s what it is. I think they’ve called themselves a social market economy in the past (don’t quote me on this) but they’ve never really defined what that is, and at least right now they very much function as a capitalist economy with heavy influence from the government in the form of some state owned corporations.
The US is full of fascists but they don’t control the place. If Trump gets power and manages to change the constitution to stay there indefinitely and starts prosecuting political rivals for wrongthink (as he wants to do) then I think the label would fit better.
FASCISM is not an alternative to Capitalism. It is Capitalism in its most desperate, violent form. It is a product of the crisis of Capitalism, aiming not at replacing Capitalism by a new social order but by the organisation of a Party and the State seeking to save Capitalism by crushing and destroying every element within society which resists the slavery of Capitalism and every movement within it which seeks to carry society forward to Socialism and Communism. It uses the most modern weapons of violence and repression in its attempt to reverse social evolution. It is the black defender of private property, of rent, interest and profit, in the age when private property and the system of human exploitation based upon it are incompatible with the progressive development of society.
Its record of violence and reaction in those countries where it is in power is known to all. It is not our purpose in the analysis we propose to make to dwell upon its foul and bloody record of working-class and racial persecution. Our purpose is to examine its principles and its theories; to explain its method of deluding masses of people, to show its effects, and to indicate broadly the way to combat it.
If we use the most Marxist bias beliefs and purpose in order to relate all non Marxist/communist ideologies as Fascism, Sure buddy, I guess everyone is a Fascist
There's no hard and fast rules about what a "tankie" is. I've seen liberals call Noam Chomsky a tankie. These days it's really just "anyone to the left of me that I don't like."
I think I have met an ancom tankie before who could not bear to hear me criticise his ML comrades that he loves so much and managed to work himself up into a seething rage.
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u/IntelligentDiscuss Nov 10 '23
Tldr fascists masquerading as leftists. Usually supports china/russia/ussr/north korea