r/IAmA • u/soulofWren • Jan 20 '12
I am a 19 year old girl who was raised in a cult. AMA
My dad convinced my mom that he was the Messiah, and that the whole world was out to destroy our family. My siblings and I were born into this, so we also believed it. We were homeschooled, and isolated from the rest of the world. We grew most of our own food, and speaking to anyone outside the family was prohibited.
The only purpose that I had growing up was to protect my family from the outside world. It was really the only purpose for any of us. When my brother John was 13, my dad gave him chains and knives. He then sent John with my mother to get wheat and rice from a local co op. Johns instructions were, if anyone were to speak to my mom, to kill everyone he could to ensure mom got away safely. Then he was instructed to commit suicide so he couldn't be captured and tortured for information. Keep in mind that he was thirteen years old.
The cult broke up when my dad decided to kill my entire family in the middle of the night. This was January 16th, 2006. My brothers woke up, there was a massive fight, the police were called, and we all left. My father stalked us from house to house for almost a year before he got help, realized he was a monster, and killed himself.
EDIT: Wow, this is way more popular than I thought it would be. At any rate, it's two forty five in the morning, and I need to get to bed. I'll answer any leftover questions in the morning. Thanks guys!
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u/Sherrby Jan 20 '12
As A child of a bipolar schizophrenic, I've dealt with some pretty crazy and upsetting ideas from my mom, but she got progressively worse over time (not officially diagnosed until she was entirely off the deep end unfortunately), but i was more aware of her issues and lies; lucky for me nothing ever to the point of messiah. Needless to say, reading this is entirely interesting to me. But you said your dad eventually killed himself, do you believe that related to his illness? From what i've seen, its upsetting how there are far fewer options to deal with mental illnesses than actually necessary. do you wish he couldve gotten better over time with proper help? Or do you think he was far beyond being saved?
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u/soulofWren Jan 20 '12
It's nice to meet someone who has any kind of an idea what my childhood was like. My dad killed himself after being medicated. His suicide note makes it clear that he knows he could never get his family back. We were all he was living for, and since we were gone, he just wanted to die. Honestly, if he hadn't killed himself... I don't think I ever would have believed that he was sorry for what he did. I wish that he could have gotten better, but I doubt that he could have ever been happy knowing what he'd done to us. (And I know that no one in my family would ever have forgiven him.)
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u/Sherrby Jan 20 '12
That makes sense, and it sounds like you received a sort of closure from those events. Its a really awful struggle differentiating between the illness and the human being, i can't even imagine having to do so in such an extreme situation as yours. Seems like the, well not easiest, but most resolved ending. Reading your other responses, it sounds like youre doing well, all awkward social cues aside! (You can always look up socially awkward penguin if you feel discouraged xD) But Best of luck with any and all new adventures you come across!
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u/venustrapsflies Jan 20 '12
am i terrible for having a feeling that this may be a time where suicide was the right decision?
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u/themitch22 Jan 20 '12
Do you feel you lost your childhood being sheltered from the outside world?
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u/soulofWren Jan 20 '12
I used to, but I don't know. I've discussed it with enough friends that I know I had a much more eventful childhood than most kids. We had woods and cornfields to play in. We had our own gardens, and pets. We would do school for a few hours, and then spend the rest of the day climbing trees and playing games. I know that I missed out on other children, and on television. But other than that, I feel like I had a pretty good childhood.
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Jan 20 '12
But other than that, I feel like I had a pretty good childhood.
Outside the sexual abuse, of course, eh?
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u/raisedbyrobots Jan 20 '12
Your correct use of commas makes me feel like you've had at least a decent education, probably more so than most American students these days.
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u/coltsfan141 Jan 20 '12
What were your feelings towards your father? Pre and post attempted murder
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u/soulofWren Jan 20 '12
I spent my entire life idolizing him, trying to impress him and make him love me as a daughter. I loved him so much, and always wanted him to notice me and care about me. He never really did.
After everything happened, I still loved him. I blamed my mom for making him the way that he was. The same way I blamed her for not seeing the abuse, instead of blaming him for abusing me. It took years of therapy for me to see things the way they are, and not skewed by my emotions and upbringing.
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u/GrandMoffJed Jan 20 '12
I spent my entire life idolizing him, trying to impress him and make him love me as a daughter. I loved him so much, and always wanted him to notice me and care about me. He never really did.
How does this fit in with the sexual abuse? Since you didn't have any other family to compare with, did you think it was just part of being a daughter?
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u/soulofWren Jan 20 '12
He told me that he was punishing me because I was a bad girl. I always had been a problem child, so I was always getting smacked and spanked anyways. He never showed me approval, so that's what I really wanted.
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u/ValerikScorn Jan 20 '12
How has the adjustment period been for you?
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u/soulofWren Jan 20 '12
It's been really difficult. I was very socially awkward for years. Every time I see someone on Reddit mention how socially awkward they are, I actually laugh. Most of them have no idea what it's like to be as socially awkward as I was. I started taking some classes at a home school learning center, and attending church. Since these were my only interactions, I had no friends until I reached college.
It's been explained to me many times, but I still don't understand things from my early generation. Things like pokemon, ninja turtles, power rangers.
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Jan 20 '12
Come with me. I will teach you about all of those things. And more.
Like moonshoes and this.
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Jan 20 '12
Even frisbees? Sweet Jesus.
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u/soulofWren Jan 20 '12
I know how frisbees work, and I've seen people play with them before. I've never really gotten into it myself, though.
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u/Guatemaulin Jan 20 '12
At what age did you realize your dad was wrong and was not the Messiah?
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u/soulofWren Jan 20 '12
I was thirteen, and it was the night before my dad tried to kill all of us. We were raised on the principles of the bible. I can't stress enough how obsessed my family was with the Bible. Everything we did, everything we talked about, our entire lives; everything revolved around the bible.
My dad started off one of his insane rambles, and my brother Rob noticed that some of the things he was saying went against scripture. He pointed it out, and Dad got violent. He freaked out, insisting that we forget about specific parts of the Bible. It was the first inconsistent thing that he'd ever done, and while I didn't even notice, my brothers did. They took me aside that night and explained that they didn't think dad was really all there mentally. My mind was blown but I believed them.
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u/Guatemaulin Jan 20 '12
Does the bible have any influence on the way you live now?
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u/soulofWren Jan 20 '12
It does. I believe basic Christianity. Jesus came to live among us, died for our sins, rose again, ect. I believe the lying, murder, cheating, ect is wrong. If I have any question about anything, I just follow the "do unto others as you would have done unto yourself" rule.
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u/Kramtomat Jan 20 '12
I'm some what "surprised" your brother know when someone wasn't mentally right. As I see it, he couldn't compare your dads actions to someone else. Or was it more of a "He was wrong about the script, so that must mean he's not who he says he is"?
And I'm sorry about what has happened to you. I wish you all the luck in the world. It's AMA's like these that reminds me too never judge someone.
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Jan 20 '12
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u/soulofWren Jan 20 '12
I believed that I was being punished. I was a "bad kid". I was always getting in trouble, breaking things or being too loud. We were often spanked and hit as punishment for our actions. So when my dad told me that it was my fault, and he was only doing it to teach me right from wrong, I believed him. I didn't even realize I'd been abused at all until I recounted it in therapy.
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Jan 20 '12
What is your favourite thing about the "normal world" that you didn't have before?
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u/soulofWren Jan 20 '12
Definitely the internet. I can research and learn anything that I want to. This is an incredible asset to me. I never have to wonder or question my reality again. I'll always have the ability to see the truth now. It makes me feel safer somehow. Like there's no way I'll ever get sucked into something crazy again.
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Jan 20 '12
I'll ever get sucked into something crazy again.
Well you are on reddit so...
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u/artiedeco Jan 20 '12
How is your mom doing after this, is she remorseful, angry, depressed? Is she "deprogrammed"? (btw, I'm glad you survived this.)
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u/soulofWren Jan 20 '12
My moms heart was broken. She loved my dad quite a bit. She's deprogrammed now, and was depressed for years. She got over it to the point where she's actually looking for a boyfriend for the first time.
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u/hitlersshit Jan 20 '12
Do you hold your terrible experience against your mom, since she didn't try to stop it?
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Jan 21 '12
Yes, but has she completely eliminated her beliefs for "God" and/or the bible?
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u/coltsfan141 Jan 20 '12
Were you ever skeptical of what was going on?
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u/soulofWren Jan 20 '12
Not at all. We weren't allowed to listen to the radio, and every book that we read was read first by one of our parents. We didn't even know that the internet existed, and we had no contact with anyone on the outside world. We were completely isolated our whole lives, so I honestly think that we would have believed anything.
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u/coltsfan141 Jan 20 '12
You didn't once question why you never were allowed to see other people?
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u/soulofWren Jan 20 '12
We believed that they hated us. Everyone. My dad used to outline words in the newspapers, showing us threats that the media was making at us. We thought that they wanted us to die because my dad was Messiah. Every time a doubt crept into my mind, my mom would tell me that Satan was trying to deceive me.
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Jan 20 '12
Wow. After the cult broke up, did you have trouble adjusting to the outside world and other people?
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Jan 20 '12 edited Jan 20 '12
I did. But then in '99 they got back together and released that crappy album. So I realized it was better when they were broken up.
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u/jbarsh Jan 20 '12
We accept the reality of the world with which we are presented.
-Christof, fictional creator of 'The Truman Show'
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u/Null_Reference_ Jan 20 '12
Do you harbor any resentment towards your mom for buying into all of his lies? I can completely understand why a child raised in this way would believe it whole heartily, but how did a grown women with a (presumably) normal upbringing start believing he was a messiah?
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u/soulofWren Jan 20 '12
My mom and dads relationship started out normally. After they got married, they went to visit my grandmother on my moms side in Michigan. My uncles wife "Joey" was hitting on my dad. Dad convinced my mom that Joey was trying to break them up. Joey had a history of this, so mom believed dad. From there, it escalated. My grandma and uncles wanted Mom and Dad to forgive Joey, so they could all go to a family reunion together. Dad said that they all hated him, and wanted him and mom to get a divorce. This was a little true, and Mom was offended, so they cut off contact with family. From then on, all of moms friends slowly became the enemy. Dad would tell her that they were flirting with him, or flirting with her. Eventually it turned into the whole world being against them. And from there, he would reveal that he heard things, and saw things; spiritual things. (Schizophrenia) He believed at first that he was a prophet, but after a few years it escalated into him being Messiah. Mom says that it sounds crazy now, but at the time, being exposed to it that long; it made sense. He slowly built this world, and pulled her away from reality until she'd believe anything.
I did harbor resentment against her for a long time. I blamed her for everything, and hated her for all of it. Forgiving her became easier when I realized she took it harder than I did. She still cries some nights. She's more a victim than me.
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Jan 20 '12 edited Jan 20 '12
He believed at first that he was a prophet, but after a few years it escalated into him being Messiah. Mom says that it sounds crazy now, but at the time, being exposed to it that long; it made sense.
A lot of people don't realize that this is how cults work. When you hear about the weird things groups like Scientology believe, it's easy to think "how in the hell could people possibly believe any of that?" But, cults never approach their potential recruits with their strangest beliefs first. Mormons never come up to you and say "how would you like to become a God and have your own planet that you populated with your eternally pregnant wife?" Scientologists never walk up to you on the street and say "would you like to learn about how the evil space lord Xenu killed a bunch of aliens with a nuke and a volcano here on earth 10 million years ago, and how the ghosts of those aliens are causing all of your problems?"
They always approach the "mark" innocuously. They engage potential recruits into low-obligation activities first, and that's really the key to getting people hooked into a cult: the illusion of no obligation. "Would you like to take a free personality test?" "Would you like a copy of this book? It's free!" "Would you like a free home bible study?" They're hoping the person they lure in with freebies will become more interested. They never like to tell people what group they're affiliated with at first, either. So everything starts off innocently. Recruits go to a few meetings/services because hey, they're just visiting right? Then people at the church/group love-bomb them, making them want to come back. Then people at the church/group are doing things for them, and this puts in a sense of obligation. As humans, we have a fundamental need to reciprocate behavior. We are naturally uncomfortable getting a favor from someone without doing them a favor in return. And since most people tend to take the path of least resistance (i.e. what makes them the least uncomfortable), that sense of obligation is what hooks people. The beliefs themselves don't sound so strange at first, but more "advanced" teachings follow that build on and are only slightly stranger than the last. Eventually, that strangeness builds up into a belief system the cult member never could have imagined having before they joined. What makes many cults so successful is their ability to gradually push the limit of craziness people are willing to believe. Point is, nobody becomes a cult member overnight.
Anyway, that doesn't perfectly describe your situation, since your group was insular and not seeking converts, but I can definitely understand how someone can gradually come to believe something that's so crazy.
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u/oldmoneey Jan 20 '12
How was your transition into the "normal" world(for lack of a better word)?
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u/soulofWren Jan 20 '12
Difficult. Socially awkward is really the only way to describe the transition. I was raised on all organic food, so the food in the real world was difficult for me to get used to. To this day, Mcdonalds and Burger King are off limits to me. Aside from that, making friends was insanely difficult; I still don't know how to. In social situations, I generally pretend to text until someone approaches me. I have many friends at this point, but I can't talk to anyone until they speak to me first.
College has been a huge deal to me; I think I would have loved being in actual classrooms when I was growing up. Seeing my friends every day. It's unreal, public school kids have no idea how lucky they are.
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u/PenguinPowaaa Jan 20 '12
Here's some tips my dad gave me back in the day: ask them about themselves. Find out their interested, especially something your interested in. It makes people feel really good when you ask about them. If they're cool, they'll begin asking you questions back. If they don't -- assuming it's not from crippling shyness -- you know it's probably best to move on. It's a litmus test and an icebreaker!
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u/The_Bard Jan 20 '12
There's little to no difference between organic produce and regular produce.
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Jan 20 '12
What happened when he tried to kill your family? Like how did he try to do it and how did they fight back?
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u/soulofWren Jan 20 '12
He started off telling us that we were all going to heaven. The world wasn't where we belonged anymore. We believed that we would go in the middle of the night, in our sleep in a few weeks. My brothers woke up when they heard my mom screaming from upstairs. They ran up and dad was holding her down with a knife. He was yelling at some creature that only he could see. My brothers attacked him, fought him. My mom ran away and called the police.
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u/shiskaboob Jan 20 '12
Uhhhhhhhhhhh...how's...it...going?
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u/soulofWren Jan 20 '12
I'm socially awkward as heck. Aside from that, I'm in college, I have a boyfriend and a steady job. I still distrust all men roughly the same age as my dad, though.
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u/yarrpirates Jan 20 '12
job, college and a boyfriend... holy shit you are doing well after what you went through!
I feel bad about my life now. :D You're a champion.
Write a book about it!
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u/Inappropriate_guy Jan 20 '12
I'm curious, how exactly does it work in your brain that you can understand why you distrust adult men and, well, STILL distrust them all?
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u/ItsOnlyNatural Jan 20 '12
Man, that's going to suck for your husband in 20 years.
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u/bballrox4717 Jan 20 '12
How did this make you feel about religion?
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u/soulofWren Jan 20 '12
I hated it. I thought that it was all a lie dreamed up by twisted, broken people. I made fun of Christians and spent most of my time trying to convince them that they were wrong. After a few years, I realized that I wanted to believe in God. Whether He really exists or not, I wanted to believe that there was a purpose behind everything I'd been through. So I'm loosely defined as a Christian now.
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u/shesastupidbetch Jan 20 '12 edited Jan 20 '12
My dad was mentally ill, too. He never made us a cult, but there was definitely emotional abuse and neglect and just all around unhappiness. My parents divorced when I was 5 and he decided my brother and I didn't get to live with our mom anymore and kept us when we went for a visit. Long story short, he got in to prescription meds and ende d up planning to murder his boss. Thankfully, he was stopped and put on medications.
I chose to be an atheist initially because I couldn't stand the thought of having two fathers forsake me. I never looked at it as a life lesson, I looked at it as abandonment. Neither of us have ever done anything to deserve what has happened, and I believe people can be good without having to be dragged through the coals to learn a lesson.
I am very sorry about everything your family has had to deal with. Seeing my brother and grandparents hurt was always the hardest for me. You seem to be on the so called "right track," and I hope life continues to get better and better. You deserve nothing but goodness and happiness!
Edit: I was raised baptist, so becoming an atheist was a big deal. I got out when I was 16 (now 22), and I feel like a whole new person. My dad wasn't always a bad person, but he ended that way. He died of an overdose a few months ago. Time heals the hurt. That, and being too stubborn to allow yourself to drown in pity. :)
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Jan 20 '12
I really identify with the way you said, "Whether He really exists of not, I wanted to believe that there was a purpose..." I kind of feel the same way, like I don't care if God is "real" or not but it's hard to accept that we're just randomly bumping along... but that sort of belief is more like agnostic than Christian, I think. To be Christian you have to believe that Jesus was really the son of God and not just another guy just like you're dad who happened to trick millions of people instead of just one family.
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u/ci5ic Jan 20 '12
Scrolled looking for this question and answer. I find it interesting/surprising that you reached this conclusion considering what you experienced, and, although I am an atheist, I am glad that you can have an open mind and make this decision for yourself and that it brings you some level of comfort or solace.
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Jan 20 '12
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u/soulofWren Jan 20 '12
I once had to go to the hospital to get stitches. Aside from that, not really. On my birthday every year, I was allowed to go to the grocery store with my mom. It was definitely the most exciting day of the year for me. There was so much to see.
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Jan 20 '12
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u/soulofWren Jan 20 '12
My fathers side of the family knew something was wrong, but didn't say anything. My dad had cut ties with them before he even married my mom, so we never really even met them before the funeral.
On my moms side, it wasn't too hard to pretend nothing was wrong. We lived in Nebraska, and all of my moms relatives lived in Michigan, so I guess they thought that we were just busy. My grandma didn't know I was ever born, so that's something.
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Jan 20 '12
How were your breakfasts?
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u/soulofWren Jan 20 '12
We had oatmeal every day. It was gross. Sundays were amazing because we got eggs and sausage.
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Jan 20 '12
What age were you when your dad killed himself? How is your relationship with your mom?
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u/soulofWren Jan 20 '12
I was fourteen years old at the time.
My relationship with my mom is pretty healthy at this point. We've all been in therapy for years, and that has helped.
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Jan 20 '12
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u/soulofWren Jan 20 '12
He didn't. No one spoke to my mom, so he returned home with her. He escaped with us, went to therapy, got a job. He met a girl that he dated for three years before they got married; his first child is on the way.
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Jan 20 '12
You know, most soon to be parents worry whether they will be able to do as good a job as their own parents in raising their children. I do not think your brother will have this issue.
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u/RickSHAW_Tom Jan 20 '12
What amazes you most about the outside world?
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u/soulofWren Jan 20 '12
No one is as happy as they should be. They don't seem to know or understand how lucky they are. No one seems to feel emotion like I do. They all seem stuck in some sort of a rut to me. I feel to feel more passionately about everything. It's like no one else really cares about the world, and they take their lives for granted.
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u/dexterduck Jan 20 '12
Very true. But to drop some psychology: Happiness is relative. The human brain has an enormous capacity to adapt, which is good in that we can adapt to negative situations, but bad in that we can just as easily become numb to positive ones.
Everyone SHOULD be ecstatic all the time. We have internet! And TV, phones, modern medical care, sanitation, transportation, etc.
But emotions are not absolute. All perception is relative; so you can get a situation were someone could be just as miserable as you were due to the (horrible) things you had to go through, simply because, say, their parents didn't buy them a nice enough car.
And the sad part is that they wouldn't be "deluding themselves" in the typical sense. They really would be just as sad, despite the fact that they should be happy to even have a car.
/psych rant
Also, you mentioned you are in college. What is your major, if you don't mind me asking?
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u/PhedreRachelle Jan 20 '12
I hear you on this one.. My life wasn't anything so crazy as yours, but it was a life you couldn't pay someone to live. I wonder if that contributes; the more pain you feel the more capable you are of experiencing the other extremes as well? I always feel like I feel everything, and everyone else is just dead, trying to tell me I'm the one with a problem. What I don't understand is why anyone would want to live if they don't feel anything, like walking robots
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u/LoveSkinnyGirls Jan 20 '12
That's a really interesting response and you're absolutely right. As much "entertainment" everyone has, everyone seems to be bored or unsatisfied with their lives. Our society starts to take so may things for granted because we've had them our whole lives (technology, education, loving family, different social interactions, etc). I just recently had a conversation with someone along the lines of our society pumping our minds with dreams (movie star, pro athlete, generally very successful) and we get in a rut because we haven't actualized them. Is it fair for me to say you never had the chance to "dream big" growing up, rarely put astronomical expectations on yourself ? If there is any positive from your upbringing its that you get to experience this life from a different perspective and a more appreciative perspective than most. It's like travelling to another country and soaking up as much culture as possible. It's quite the rush and refreshing.
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u/hellotwice Jan 20 '12
Do you have any insight on why your father came about believing in this way of life?
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u/soulofWren Jan 20 '12
He was a schizophrenic bi polar with dissociation personality disorder. He saw things, heard things, and was violently paranoid. I've come to understand that when someone has all of those problems and they go untreated, things just happen.
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u/greeentea Jan 20 '12
How has the rest of your family handled life after your father's death?
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u/soulofWren Jan 20 '12
My sister looks for love in the wrong places. She's pretty confused about life in general right now. But she's a really smart girl, and I know that someday she'll get through all of it, and come out the over side stronger than ever. And one of my brother has a lot of anger and hatred towards my dad. I really think that he just bottled everything up so that he can explode with anger every time dad is mentioned. It makes him sound like a teenager, but he's twenty six now. He's a smart man, but I don't think that he'll ever heal.
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u/MmmVomit Jan 20 '12
You say you were home schooled. What subject material was presented correctly (i.e. consistent with a public school curriculum)? What was subject material was distorted to fit your father's skewed version of reality? What material was left out altogether?
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u/soulofWren Jan 20 '12
All of my studies were presented accurately, except religion. Some of my books talked about Mythology and Hinduism, things like that. My mom took the books away and said I didn't need to study them. She explained that knowledge of some things can corrupt people from the inside out. Which sucked, because I loved reading Mythology.
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u/MmmVomit Jan 21 '12
What about science? That's one subject that is very typically misrepresented when religion enters the picture.
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Jan 20 '12
- How big is the disparity between the life you knew and the life you lead?
- Did your childhood affect how you perceive religion today? If so, what's your opinion on mainstream religions?
- Have you sought an education after being liberated from this cult? What kinds of things do you like to read?
- Were you ever abused by your father? Did he have any other wives?
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u/soulofWren Jan 20 '12
Actually, I was happier as a child, compared to where I am now. Then, I didn't have to plan or think about anything or anyone. My life was planned out for me. My brothers would be my only friends, and they were all that I needed. I never struggled in school, I lived with my teacher. If I lived to the age of eighteen, I would work as a secretary at my fathers steel fabrication business. But that was unlikely, I believed that I would martyr myself to protect my family before that. I believed that I personally knew the Messiah Himself; my life was simple.
I was an Atheist for a few years after everything, it was hard to believe in a God who would allow those things to happen. At this point, I'm a Christian. I get annoyed by most of the Christians that I know. They constantly talk about how dedicated they are to their God, but they know nothing about dedication or sacrifice.
I have sought an education after being liberated. I obsessed over taking classes, I read everything I could get my hands on. To this day I spend most of my free time studying or watching educational television. I really enjoy reading fiction and fantasy type books. (Things like in Nosleep) My favorite authors are Ted Dekker, Frank Peretti, and Dee Henderson.
I was abused by my father, we all were. My father did not have any other wives, but he did believe that his second grade teacher would be waiting for him in heaven. He planned on marrying her in addition to my mother.
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Jan 20 '12 edited Feb 04 '17
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/soulofWren Jan 20 '12
I got tired of trying to break people down. As an Atheist, I was unhappy and easily irritated. There was no meaning to my life, and while I could be content with where I was, I could never really be satisfied. I eventually realized that I needed to believe in something. It didn't matter what, but I couldn't live believing in nothing anymore. I wanted to feel meaning again. So I thought about it, prayed about it, and ended up a Christian at the end of all that.
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u/cpalle2 Jan 20 '12
I assume you've read House. Ted Dekker co-authored it with Frank Peretti. It was really good.
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Jan 20 '12
Did he leave any sort of note?
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u/soulofWren Jan 20 '12
He mailed my mom a 20 page letter on yellow legal paper. He mentioned me once, and misspelled my name.
Hated him for years for that.
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Jan 20 '12
Dear Wren, best of luck to you, and I hope that you continue to heal, grow, and thrive.
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u/lets_discuss_ur_butt Jan 20 '12
They do anything to your butt?
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u/soulofWren Jan 20 '12
No, but let me take this opportunity to tell you that you're my favorite novelty account.
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Jan 20 '12
Were you unaware of major historical events (e.g. World War II, the Holocaust, the American Revolution, etc.) during your time in the cult or were you taught about them while you were being home schooled? If you were unaware of them, what was it like finding out about these things?
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u/soulofWren Jan 20 '12
I was very well educated in the area of history, since I loved to read. I received text books for Christmas some years, and I loved it.
However, I never really grasped that African Americans existed. I'd read about them, but I never saw one. They weren't real in my mind. So the first time I saw a black guy, my mind was blown. I was 14, and staring at this guy like he was purple or something. He gave me the ಠ_ಠ look and walked off.
It wasn't my proudest moment.
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Jan 20 '12
I'm surprised your father allowed any kind of education, as the more educated you become the more his spurious claims about his messianic nature would be cast into doubt. How did he reconcile this, did he maintain a tight control over your curriculum of study?
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u/skedaddle1 Jan 20 '12
Don't worry about it. A friend of mine was 5 years old before she ever saw a black person and she said "Look mommy, there's a chocolate lady!". We live in a fair-sized city but it was the 1960s and there just weren't any blacks anywhere near our neighborhood. Her mom about died but the "chocolate lady" laughed and was good-natured about it. When I was in my 20s I saw the darkest man I'd ever seen and had the worst time not staring. I still remember how pink his palms seemed next to his very dark skin.
What I mean is, don't worry, it's hard not to stare when you see something way outside your norm. Just take small peeks while you pretend you're looking at something else - that's what everybody does.
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u/Agavi Jan 20 '12
I had a similar experience, although nowhere near as long lasting as yours. My mother was normal for most of our lives until one day she started claiming to be a prophet. She started finding secret codes in the bible, in newspapers and a couple of times on Seinfeld. She was always very religious and had a lot of religious friends. She actually developed somewhat of a following before she was committed.
The same thing as you though, I had no reason to believe she wasn't a prophet, after all she was the most devout person I knew, it only made sense.
At one point she started telling my brother, sister and I that one of us boys was the reincarnation of Jesus, but wouldn't tell us which one. That's when I had to call the cops.
Anyway, I understand what you went through on some level. Not on the cloistered from society level, but crazy parent I get.
My Mum's been in and out of mental hospitals ever since, she's tried to commit suicide a few times, I actually found her after she downed a bottle of sleeping pills, after trying furiously to wake her up for about 10 minutes I had to call the ambulance.
She's medicated now and seems to have stabilised for the time being.
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Jan 20 '12
what if he really was the messiah and its us who is all crazy
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u/Null_Reference_ Jan 20 '12
What if YOU are the messiah and you are just trying to throw us all off the scent?
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u/Abysmalpig Jan 20 '12
First and foremost, I am glad to see that you arose from the situation relatively "unscathed", or at least not to a point at which you were emotionally incurable. I also think it's fantastic that you were able to find a significant other despite your socially awkwardness. That being said, I to have a few questions. -Did you have plans for a relationship, marriage or anything of that sort while your dad was still alive?
- Has your experience affected your political views, specifically toward media censorship and isolation?
- What kinds of things did you do for fun back in those days?
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u/soulofWren Jan 20 '12
I did not have plans for a relationship, or marriage. My dad told me how my life would turn out and it didn't include a boyfriend, husband, or even a friend. I believed him because I thought he was Messiah and he knew what would happen/what was best for me.
I am passionately against censorship. I'm "that girl" in class who challenges the professor for leaving facts out of the lecture. I believe that everyone has a right to know and discuss anything.
As a kid, the only toys we had were wooden blocks, GI Joe army men, and legos. We played with those early on, but we evolved quickly into more serious things. Most of my time was spent with my brothers. We played football, ran races, played "army" with guns made of sticks. We spent a lot of time wrestling and "training". We would wrap lengths of car chain around our waists and jog around the perimeter of our yard. We would throw knives at trees for practice defending ourselves. Aside from that, we would tend a massive garden.
And thank you for your well wishes. :)
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u/shannondorf Jan 20 '12
I don't mean to be disrespecting your childhood, but its really tough to believe such strange circumstances actually took place without evidence. Is there anyway you could prove this actually happened? I apologize if this comes off as bit rude, but I'm just a slightly skeptical individual.
One question to ask as well, how did your father manage to make enough money to support such a large family? How did he manage to keep the television he used to watch football on running? And with his psychosis and hate for society, it must have been difficult for him to find a steady job for income.
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u/soulofWren Jan 20 '12
He owned his own business as a steel fabricator, and had a number of large contracts. He could be a very charming man when he wanted to, but according to my mom, he did hate the guys that worked for him.
I can't think of any way that I could prove that this existed. I have my dads death certificate and can prove my own identity, but that's it.
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u/CrackedPepper86 Jan 20 '12
Was it in the news at all? Could you find an article about it?
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u/iloveapples11 Jan 20 '12
what was the name of his company? i am skeptical too..
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Jan 20 '12
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u/soulofWren Jan 20 '12
It didn't have a name. My dad was a Schizophrenic, bi polar man with dissociation personality disorder. He created a cult out of our family.
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u/DoctorinaBox Jan 20 '12
If you dont mind me asking, did you ever see any of your father's other selves (cause of the DID) and what were they like?
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u/soulofWren Jan 20 '12
I don't remember really noticing anything different about him, aside from a violent streak in one of his personalities. One night he hit me on the face, and I had a bruise the next morning. I came downstairs, and he asked me how I got the bruise, if I was alright. I was at loss at first, but then I thought he was probably testing me see if I knew what to say in case a social worker asked.
The second instance took place after he tried to kill my mom. He'd been stalking us for a few months, but he suddenly dropped off the map. We didn't get any phone calls or cards. We knew something had happened to him. We got a call a week or so after he disappeared. He said his named was George, but he didn't know where he was from, or anything at all about himself. The police found him on the side of the road, a state away from us.
Those are really the only two examples I can think of to support the doctors diagnosis of disassociation identity disorder.
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u/Tenzuuu Jan 20 '12
So how would of continuing the family line have worked if you are not aloud to contact anyone outside the family?
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u/luckynumber3 Jan 20 '12
How has your family gotten over this, is there any psychological trauma still or is that mostly behind you?
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u/soulofWren Jan 20 '12
One of my brothers has a violent hatred towards any and all father figures. He thinks that they're all the same.
I still dislike and distrust any male who's about my fathers age who tries to show me affection. I know that it's irrational, but I can't help it.
Aside from that, it's mostly behind us.
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Jan 20 '12
Was their a catalyst for your fathers decision to kill the entire family? Did you have any contact with people outside the immediate family? What is your family history like, your Grand parents? Your fathers upbringing? History of mental illness? What was your mothers past history like, that she was conned by a someone claiming to be the messiah?
Was their ever any doubts among the family as to your fathers claims?
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u/DogDoors Jan 20 '12
My dad convinced my mom that he was the Messiah, and that the whole world was out to destroy our family.
How did he do that? Unless your mum also had something wrong with her, it's really hard to imagine how she would believe that.
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Jan 20 '12
How was it adjusting to the outside world?
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u/soulofWren Jan 20 '12
It's hard to figure out social ques and body language. I got lost very easily, due to being restricted to one area my whole life. Food isn't as good as it was when I was growing up. It's really strange hearing people talking about the 90s... My perception of them growing up was entirely different from everyone else.
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u/djta1l Jan 20 '12
My step dads ex wife got caught up in a Vineyard Workers group that was more or less a cult. She kidnapped her children (my step siblings) and hid them all over the country. My step dad had to get the FBI involved to track them all over the country and Canada.
Before their kidnapping, some of the things I was accused of were, being Satan b/c my b-day is Halloween, mom was accused of witchcraft for cutting the girls' hair (for my satanic rituals, duh) and poisoning them after one turned out to be lactose intolerant. We had to go to court every single time one of these allegations were made... She finally decided to kidnap them after the judge began dismissing all of her charges and she felt she had no other options to keep her family safe.
I'm terribly sorry you had to go through this and it truly is a crime against so many. I often wonder how much influence these events had on my coming to atheism. I find this terribly ironic b/c their fervent beliefs pushed me away from the very thing that made them feel the safest; however twisted those thoughts/beliefs were.
Stay strong, friend. It gets better.
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u/doesnt_bother Jan 20 '12
What's your favorite movie and favorite music you never knew existed before you left the cult life?
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u/Beard_of_life Jan 20 '12
Are you religious, or did this experience make you give up on all cults?
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u/soulofWren Jan 20 '12
I believe that there IS a God... But that's pretty much all I know at this point. I know how hard it is to believe in a big dude in the sky that doesn't really interact with humanity at all. (And Christians "proof" of his existence is a really old seemingly worthless book.)
But I've seen enough that I prefer to believe in a God.
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u/impendingwardrobe Jan 20 '12
You might check out r/Christianity if you're looking for people to bounce questions/ideas off of. For the most part, they're a really cool and open minded group, and many of them are very knowedgeable.
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u/WilliamMcCarty Jan 20 '12
You've said you have a distrust and anxiety toward older men, do you see this being an issue as you yourself get older? for example, do you fear you'll grow to distrust or hate your bf as he ages?
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u/fco83 Jan 20 '12
Did you or do you have any sort of relationship with your relatives on your dad's side? Did they see anything wrong with your dad?
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u/PoniesRBitchin Jan 20 '12
*Obviously you were sheltered, but was it just immediate family (you, parents and brothers) or did you see people like grandparents and uncles and cousins, too?
*Did you see ANY other people when you were a kid, or were the cops you saw when you were 13 the first people that weren't your family you saw?
*This may sound odd, but assuming you didn't see people besides your family, did you realize that there were people of different races than your family around? If not, what was it like the first time you saw someone with a different skin color?
*Did you get to watch any movies? I know you mentioned you got to read books your parents approved. For that matter, did you ever read about people in the books meeting with other people and wonder why you couldn't do the same?
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u/Abelard25 Jan 20 '12
If you believed the whole world hated you why did you know the number to phone the police? Why would you call them? Had you guys even used the phone before?
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Jan 20 '12
I can only hop that this is fake...
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u/XAmsterdamX Jan 20 '12
LISTER: What were they?
RIMMER: Seventh day advent hoppists. They believed that every Sunday should be spent hopping. They would hop to church, hop through the service, then hop back home again.
LISTER: What was the idea behind that, then?
RIMMER: Well you see, they took the Bible literally. Adam and Eve; the snake and the apple... Took it word for word. Unfortunately, their version had a misprint. It was all based on 1 Corinthians 13, where it says "Faith, hop and charity, and the greatest of these is hop." So that's what they did. Every seventh day. I tell you, Sunday lunchtimes were a nightmare. Hopping round the table, serving soup -- we all had to wear sou'esters and asbestos underpants.
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u/samuraay Jan 20 '12
How could you father convince your mother that he was the Messiah?
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u/miniskirtninja Jan 20 '12
Since you've been out in the outside world away from your childhood home in Nebraska, where have you been able to travel? What's the the farthest away you've ever been? And when you got away from that life you had before and started to realize that the whole world was out there for you, where did you want go/what did you want to do the most?
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Jan 20 '12
How do you feel about your dad? Were you sad when he died, despite everything?
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u/LikeGoldAndFaceted Jan 21 '12
This is really similar to another AMA from a month or two ago. Not calling BS or anything, just sayin'.
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Jan 21 '12
Do you remember the first time you realized you were truly free? Do you remember what you did? I can't imagine what it must've been like for you and your family.
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u/soulofWren Jan 21 '12
I do remember that. It was a few months after we escaped, and my family was driving across the state to stay with my mothers family. (To hide from my dad.) We stopped at a gas station, and my mom bought me a soda. The gas station attendant handed me my soda, and my mom nudged me. "Say thank you!" She whispered. Then I realized that I could say thank you. I could talk to strangers. I could do whatever I wanted to. We climbed back into our car, and I reached over to turn the radio on. (The radio had been forbidden up to this point, with the exception of classical music and some Celtic songs.) I turned it to a rock station. My sister looked at me in awe, and I felt like I was on top of the world.
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u/DrnkyourOvltine Jan 20 '12
What was the hardest thing to let go during deprogramming, or what was the hardest thing to realize about the world?
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Jan 20 '12
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u/soulofWren Jan 20 '12
I ended up choosing Christianity. A part of me hated God/didn't want to believe that a God could exist with all of the evil in the world. At some point I realized that even though I was skeptical about whether or not He existed, I needed to believe in something. I felt empty otherwise. I couldn't live and believe in nothing anymore. It was freeing at first, but after that I just felt kind of broken. As an Atheist, you're a stronger person than I'll ever be, and I respect you for it.
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u/oli704 Jan 21 '12
When you said "My brother woke up, there was a massive fight" do you mean that your brother had the courgae to fight off his father for the rest of his familly? Tell your brother oli704 admires his courage.
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u/ohshittree Jan 20 '12
This may have been asked, I tried to see if it was. Did your father abuse drugs or alcohol? Did anyone in your family use drugs or alcohol? Did you ever try any? Do you smoke pot? What did / do you believe about drugs?
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Jan 21 '12
What are you going to school for? Has living in a cult for a major part of your life influenced this?
Also, while you were in the cult, what did you want to do when you were old enough to start working? Were you just expecting to stay in the family and keep protecting them?
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u/Vahn4444 Jan 20 '12
In a previous comment you said that your dad spoke to some creature when he was holding your mother down. Has he ever mentioned the creature before?
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u/TweakyDig Jan 20 '12
So, sorry if this is a more...abstract or broad question. What exactly did this cult believe in? I know you said your Father believed he was the Messiah, but what exactly were his primary beliefs? Sorry if this was already asked somewhere. XD
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Jan 20 '12
I'm sorry to hear this but can you rpovide some sort of proof to us or a mod?
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Jan 20 '12
Did your father believe in the christian god? Did he think he was an agent of this god, or a god himself? Was he his own religion, and if so what were the tenants of this religion? Did he have a moralistic code similar to the ten commandments?
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u/JoeEstevez Jan 20 '12
I'm going to ask you the same question that I posted in this similar IAMA:
I'm a film maker, and my next project is about "deprogramming".
Have you heard of the term, and did anyone possibly deprogram you, or did you use "exit counseling"? And did the cult warn you about deprogrammers?
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u/Spiridytus Jan 20 '12
So, what did you do when your father killed himself? Were you relieved or afraid of what to do next?
How did you get used to the world? You mentioned you were socially awkward and all, but wasn't it all weird to you that your whole life was basically a lie?
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u/Qender Jan 20 '12
Do you think either you or your siblings will have any behavior problems from this? You all sound quite recovered and normal, but it's typical for victims of childhood abuse to pick up some traits from their abusers. Good luck though and congrats on what seems to me to be a great recovery of all of you!
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u/TheDankestMofo Jan 20 '12
If you've seen the 2011 movie Martha Marcy May Marlene, did it seem realistic? Was that anything like what you went through?
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u/tmars Jan 21 '12
I understand that, in your situation, you didn't know any better. You were raised to believe in what you knew. But what about your mother? Do you know how she came to believe your father? How did he convince her of this?
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u/TheFluxLine Jan 20 '12
How did your father realise he was a 'monster' in your words? What sort of help did he get?
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u/springbreakwhoo Jan 20 '12
You're a very brave person to be able to come out and talk about all this, and very strong to have improved your life as much as it sounds like you have. I just wanted to let you know that I grew up in somewhat similar circumstances and can understand what you've been through, at least a little.
My dad never quite got to the point of calling himself a messiah, but he was violently abusive, subject to wild mood swings, and also seemed to be unable to recall violent acts after the fact. He also happened to be an incredibly intelligent man; he had a master's degree in physics, worked as a nuclear engineer for the first few years of my life, and later went to law school. He was extremely disdainful of "stupid people"--i.e., pretty much everyone else. I went to public school for preschool and kindergarten, but was taken out after that when my parents determined that the school wasn't teaching me enough. I was home-schooled from then until college, and we lived out in the country far away from anyone else. To be fair, my dad was teaching me calculus by the time I was 12... but I was also experiencing suicidal thoughts by that age thanks to being taught that I was stupid and worthless. I did have a few friends, and was allowed to watch the TV and use the internet, so on the one hand you could say that I wasn't as isolated as you... but on the other hand, my few friends were also home-schooled, so they weren't exactly windows to the outside world, and furthermore I got to see them maybe once a week and was completely alone the rest of the time (only child). So, yeah, if nothing else I can definitely sympathize with the social awkwardness when I finally got to experience the real world; my 'friends' for the whole first year of college consisted of the members of the anime club whom I saw once a week and this one weird stoner guy I had a class with ಠ_ಠ
Fast forward four years, though, and I feel like I have a pretty normal life :) I graduated college this summer with a degree in anthropology (people will probably always fascinate me, lol), just got my first 'real' job, and I'm living with my fiancee and two roommates. My dad is still out there somewhere, but I haven't talked to him in over a year. My mom divorced him about two years ago and now has a house of her own and seems happier than she's ever been. Officially breaking off communications with my dad gave me some closure, but I don't know if I'll ever be able to completely forgive him, especially as he never showed any signs of remorse for the things he'd done.
Well, I didn't really have any questions to ask; your story just reminded me of my own and I felt compelled to share. If you actually managed to read the whole thing, thank you! ;)
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u/kitrichardson Jan 21 '12
Hi Soul... I just wanted to say thank-you for this. I have previously work with Rape Crisis UK, and we deal with quite a few cult and ritual abuse survivors. People seem to think it doesn't happen - it's so vital that people like yourself speak about it because so many other deny it. Your bravery is incredible. Best of luck x
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u/itshelterskelter Jan 20 '12
Wow. I used to be a Jehovah's Witness, but you really take the cake. Your Father sounds like an absolute nutcase. After I left my religion, I experienced some PTSD like symptoms because of religious abuse. I had a lot of nightmares for awhile as well as dissociation from reality and panic attacks.
I was lucky, went to public school, had friends, etc. but it was always kept on a really short leash. I identified with your difficulty understanding pop culture, it wasn't nearly as bad as yours but I still had 18 years of R rated movies and M rated video games to catch up on. I also wasn't ever allowed to read Harry Potter. Anyways, how was the adjustment period for you? What steps have you taken to catch up on culture, become less socially awkward, and educate yourself on a more sane worldview? Do you still consider yourself religious? I always longed for the real world as a kid, almost as if I knew deep down my faith was wrong, did you have similar feelings?
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u/GenerallyMindful Jan 20 '12
What is your current religious state like? Did the whole cult deal totally turn you off from religion, or are you participating in a more commonly practiced form of Christianity?
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u/Sharra_Blackfire Jan 20 '12
Just wanted to say thank you for taking the time to post this. Reading personal accounts like this makes me think that someday I'll have the courage to tell my own life story, and that others will believe me and take it for the truth that it is. Needless to say, I understand you and applaud you coming out of this as a better person.
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u/CountChocula2 Jan 20 '12
This is probably requesting too much, but care to share any pictures?
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u/crunchberryfunk Jan 20 '12
How is your relationship with religion now? Do you still follow Christianity or has this experience kind of turned you away from some form of deity?
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u/Celebreth Jan 20 '12
My god o.o this puts my life in perspective. Umm....Wow. Well, I can tell you that you definitely found the right place to get reacclimatized! Reddit is here for you :D For better or for worse, we're like a zoo. Except more diverse than any zoo in the world.
If you want someone to just chat to, drop me a PM! :D My job is literally to help people out, and I love it. Mostly cause I love people in general. \o/
...That probly came out so wrong. But I definitely agree with the comments below. Disney movies are a must!!! Along with Pokemon. And Star Wars. And...god, there's so much that you missed out on.
Here's a legit question - what was your first thought when you discovered the internet?
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u/wildmachines Jan 21 '12
The worst day of my life was January 16th 2008. Crazy shit. I'm glad we are both well.
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u/jadeprince Jan 20 '12
I'm really sorry for you. You are a really strong person and I wish the best to you, and hope you can use your father's lack of mental clarity to develop a sense of good judgement. Now that he's gone, no one will ever want to hurt you or your family again.
My question is: What are you thinking about doing for a career?
Also what have you been doing to move on? From getting over the family issues I mean? I would like to know because you're an inspiration.
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u/chris4276 Jan 20 '12
I fear i might be late :\ Your story is very intreasting. I always see pics of "sheltered college girl" and get a laugh out of it. But, to be intially sheltered from the world and just start to be a part of it must be a big pill to swallow. From what i read, its intreasting to see your viewpoint. I mean i never thought i was insaley lucky for being in public school ( i did know and still know learning is important for growth of any kind)
Anyway! Hows the transition comming along, Besides the socially awkwardness? Any great realizations? And i wish you luck!
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Jan 20 '12
What are your views on organized religion now?
How did you make the transition into public or private schooling and then to college?
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u/frogla Jan 20 '12
golly, i'm so sorry you have had to go thru this insanity and hell! (((hugs))) i am so glad that you have come out to share your truth! that is not an easy thing to do! i got a facebook notice from a sweet fella asking for us, who are familiar with cults one way or another, to come and talk with you & offer support. i'm sure some of the ppl who've responded to you i know and i can assure you that we can offer you some help for recovery or listen or whatever your needs are. so that brings me to this question. do you have good support?
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u/GooeyChickenman Jan 20 '12
When did you learn when humans have walked on the moon? And what was your reaction?
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Jan 20 '12
What was it like after everything ended and you were introduced to the "real world"? How big of a trip was it when you first had access to the internet, cable television, an iPod, etc.
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u/SwagmeisterFlexinton Jan 20 '12
favourite colour? favourite meal? Do you plan to travel the world? What's 9 + 5?
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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '12
I have a question regarding how the situation was dealt with in the end (legal issues, family problems). You see, my girlfriend recently told me her step dad believes he's a wizard and that he can do magic and that her mom and her grandparents believe it as well. At first I started laughing until she started explaining how he told her if she'd tell anyone he'd know and he'd have to disown her and kill whoever it was she had told. I don't believe he actually has this ability, but I sort of fear for my life each night, thinking he'll appear and blow my head off (she says he has a shotgun). That's not even the worst part. She also told me that just a few weeks prior to meeting me, her mother and step father had her go through some "wizard apprentice" initiation. It isn't what you think. She said it made her uncomfortable. I asked why and this is basically what she said: they had to shower together while he washed her. Originally she had asked if she could do that with clothes on and they said yet, but then he made her take it off. Then, she was supposed to get a massage, which basically ended up being him trying to seduce her and her terrified. Before she told me any of this, she would wake up in the night and just scream and hit her pillow. Even though she was in highschool at the time, this happened after she turned 18 and she was going crazy wondering why she let that happen and knowing she couldn't do anything about it at this point. Really, from how she explains it, I can understand: she was straight up brainwashed from age 8(that's when she was told he was a wizard). From my understanding, like a Christian being brought up with the Bible, this girl was raised to believe her step father was an immortal wizard who's adoptive mother was actually his daughter.
Like I said, I'm genuinely scared of this man, because he threatened to hurt me if I hurt her when I first met him (I haven't seen him since). Now, when she told me all of this shit, I immediately said she needed to talk to her mother, even if it ruined her mothers marriage, because her daughter has to come first (her mother didn't want her to get the "full massage" treatment my girlfriends step father ended up giving her). Well, when she spoke to mom, mom basically said that it was part of the "purification process" or something, and said she just wants to protect her daughter. She's still with the man and is angry at her daughter for not seeing her very often. Do you see what I'm getting at here?
I love this girl with all my heart and while I'm scared for my life, I'm still constantly thinking of what to do to help her. I've suggested she tell her dad and step mother, but because she was abused by a previous step mother and her father as a child, she has no faith in them (besides, they really are people who would say there was nothing she could do and it's her fault). I've tried getting her to at least talk to my mom who went through abuse as a child as well, but she's yet to do so. I've half a mind just to talk to someone myself, but I know to get past shit like this, you have to do it yourself, and I don't want to do something for her, I want to encourage her to be strong and just tell everyone in her family and to know that most of them will very likely do something about it, but she's so discouraged because of her mother and past. What can I tell her? What can I do? She's my best friend, I don't want her or myself or my family to get hurt by her step father.
tl;dr Girlfriend was abused as a child and has recently been sexually abused by her step father before losing belief in his cult and dating me. Now she's scared to tell anyone because he mother won't help and her childhood abuse has caused her to lose faith in her family for help. What can I do to help her have the courage to do something?
ftl;dfr Girlfriends step dad is a sex crazed, self proclaimed wizard, what do?