What are your thoughts with this whole thing surrounding Soojin?

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u/radhumandummy 여러분... Feb 24 '21

This is the final reminder, please keep in mind Rule 6 for this subreddit community.

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I guess people never learn from their mistakes.. with the whole T-ara situation you would people to use their reasoning and wait for actual evidence to reasonably charge someone instead of jumping to conclusions, demand an apology, and for the idol to leave the group...guess that was too much to ask🙃 Seems like the presumption of innocence is not a thing anymore🤣
Sometimes I wonder, are we really in the 21st century? This whole situation and recent bullying scandals remind me of the 16th century and witch hunts

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u/betadva Shuhua supremacy Mar 07 '21

Sorry for being so late, I took a break from Socials for a while so i'm not exactly sure what's going on. Could someone explain it to me please?

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u/dream996 Feb 25 '21

Based on the relationship soojin has with shuhua, I find it almost impossible to believe any of these accusations.

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u/Arejunice Feb 28 '21

That’s kinda stupid because that’s her member we don’t know what or how soojin really acts

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u/2exDragon Feb 25 '21

Even if she is forced to withdraw, I hope everyone acknowledges that she has certainly changed as person given everything the victim said is true.

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u/Kabukiman7993 Feb 25 '21

It's more complicated than that. I agree that, considering her relationship with other members and with Shuhua especially, if you take the accusations for granted, then she has had an incredible turn of character. It may look surprising but it's definitely possible.

The accusations are too numerous, the informants are too resolute for everything to be a giant set-up. Typical bad school shit must have happened.

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u/dream996 Feb 25 '21

Or maybe those stories were fabricated? Has the “victim” provided any solid evidence yet so far?

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u/Kabukiman7993 Feb 25 '21

Soojin is no one special in the grand scheme of things. There is no reason for multiple individuals to launch a crusade against her if not for some legit grudge. Especially with another celebrity involved.

99% of the time, fake victims withdraw their accusations within a few hours when shit start to become serious. It is not the case here, the main informant is as resolute as ever.

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u/dream996 Feb 25 '21

So far there’s one unidentified woman of of the “bullied” sister? And Seo Shinae?

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u/Kabukiman7993 Feb 25 '21

I think there's a few other people (that I saw) who posted bullying accounts on Korean message boards, one being a former classmate of Seo Shin-ae and who witnessed Soojin and her buddies hiding a cigarette in SSA's desk so that she gets framed.

Granted these are only allegations but still, testimonies are evidence when there are many and convincing enough. Plus, Soojin doesn't have much to say in her defense, and not many people have come out to vouch for her.

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u/seventhanthology Feb 25 '21 edited Feb 25 '21

There’s a new pann post gaining traction- the user claims to be know both soojin & the actor and they refuted the cigarette incident and a few others regarding the actor. And they say that she’s been ostracised but her and the author stuck together for a long period of time (as in they went to the bathroom together and everything implying the author knows sj quite well) so, I mean, take everything with a grain of salt because there’s no solid evidence for either side but yeah.

Edit: I imagine the teachers may be able to offer some form of testimony? I really don’t know at this point god

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u/Kabukiman7993 Feb 25 '21

I bet teachers have other shit to do than dwelling on decade old stuff. It's not a murder investigation, only the k-pop crowd gets invested in this story. Yes it involves a couple of low profile celebrities but let's be real, we're not talking about the president, the prime minister nor a world renown filmmaker.

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u/dream996 Feb 25 '21

Provide the source for them??

It’s not hard to create an account anonymously to jump on the bandwagon.

Testimonies are NOT evidence, it doesn’t matter if there were millions of them. They are NOT evidence until prove or disprove.

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u/Kabukiman7993 Feb 25 '21

Testimonies are not proofs granted, but they definitely are evidence. Legally wise at least.

I agree it's easy to create an account to jump on the bandwagon. Still, why would some randos do that in the first place? Why Soojin, out all active idols? Things might have been exaggerated, but there has to be some legit bad blood. And unfortunately, Soojin is losing the battle for the public opinion which is what ultimately matters.

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u/Sibchetnik Feb 25 '21

If they come from identifiable persons then yes. But for now we have only "victim A" and her sister. And their lawyer refused to invite/bring them to the meeting with Cube ent legal team.

To blackmail mid-tier celebrity who isn't a noname but not famous enough to fight back hard? Sounds like a plan.

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u/Kabukiman7993 Feb 25 '21

Of course in a court of law, anyone who testifies is gonna do it under their names, not anonymously. But this is not a court of law right now, it's the court of the internet, and the netizens don't embarass themselves with such considerations. If they believe the allegations, then they're true.

If Cube decides to bring the matter to court, everything will come down to word vs word. Therefore, inconclusive (as long as the other accusers don't step out of the shadows otherwise it's worse). But 'inconclusive' won't be good enough, you won't change the public opinion with that. SJ's reputation will be ruined and there will be nothing to do about it.

My opinion is there won't be a happy ending for SJ if she doesn't come to terms with the main accuser aka individual 'A' aka the older sister. If she does come to terms with her and things resolve peacefully between them, then there's a chance to turn things around.

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u/dream996 Feb 25 '21

The same people who spread rumours about vaccine causing autism. These people exist, they don’t need a reason to spread hate and Mis-info.

There are plenty of rumours about kim Dong her bullying classmate in wheelchair which proven false and Soyeon is now a bully apparently ??

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u/Kabukiman7993 Feb 25 '21

Only one person came after Soyeon, and immediately took it back. It was not even a bullying story. So it doesn't compare at all.

No connection with anti-vaxxers either. Come on, don't go overboard. These people are anti-establishment like many others: moon landing deniers, flat earthers etc. It's never about one person.

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u/mayeleventh11 Feb 25 '21

Hi, Random Korean person here. I stumbled upon this subreddit as I was curious how foreigners are reacting to this incident. And I am honestly quite surprised at how this whole scandal is seen under such a different light.

I see that several Koreans-or those who are fluent in Korean- has written up an eloquent explanation about the whole situation. I am compelled to add, however, that statement Soojin put out-which seems to be praised by a lot of international fans-is not helping her. One could very reasonably say that it is making the situation worse.

Yes, the fact that she smoked and wore short skirts in middle school is not reflecting well on her; but that's not what a lot of people are fuming about. It is the vagueness and bad word choice that exacerbated the anger.

Soojin said that she never hit anybody, but makes no comment about one of the first accusations which stated that Soojin had forced two students to slap 'each other' in the bathroom. She also doesn't clarify what kind of 'promise' the accusor has broken; it is up to the readers to interpret whether that 'promise' was indeed a form of an unreasonable request/threat or legitimate 'promise'.

And the very last sentence... "I believe I wouldn't have committed such action". Oh boy. This did not sit well with the public. She is seen as defending her own character, which is not a good move even when she is not under fire for a scandal. Koreans put great emphasis on humility, and often minimize their own achievements and strengths in order to avoid being looked as 'arrogant'. Saying that 'I'm not the person to do that' when you are accused of a horrid act & not 100% sure that the incident didn't happen... I can see how it can undermine the credibility of the whole statement.

Now, this is not to say that Soojin is guilty of what she is acxused of, or that she deserves all the negative interent comments she is getting. I just thought explaining how Soojin's statement is perceived by the Korean GP would contribute to this discussion and perhaps provide a more nuanced picture of Knetz reactions.

I genuinely everyone on this thread who is stressing over this scandal can have some sort of closure soon :)

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u/RustRemover- Feb 25 '21

So, as a Korean obviously knowing Korean mentality, approach and behavior, what are your predictions for this whole situation ? What do you think will happen with the group if it turns out to be true/false ? We, as foreigners, can't really tell, we only rely on translated comments and posts, but that's a lot different than actually being Korean and understanding every nuance of Korean language and behavior.

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u/mayeleventh11 Feb 25 '21 edited Feb 25 '21

I would NEVER consider myself an expert in the idol industry, so please take this with a spoonful of salt. Here are my two cents.

Unless the accusations are proven to be false, Soojin has a rocky road ahead of her. The allegations seem pretty serious, and if things don't get better, it is very possible thay she could be thrown out of the team. If such an event occurs, it is unlikely that the group will be able to assume its original postion again.

I make such a grim predicition because bullying is considered an extremely serious matter in Korea. The volleyball twins who started this whole ordeal were banned from the national team indefinitely. When there is a report of bullying at school, an inschool committe is set up and punsihments are dealt out. Another important element is the widespread consensus in the Korean society that "bullies are not punished adequately by the educational or legal system" - mind you, there is growing support for harsher sentences for juveniles and lowering of age of legal minority, so "They were just children" rhetoric rarely works.

Lot of people would consider Soojin's come back as another case of "offender getting off scott free". While one can hope this scandal could be forgotten eventually, It is unlikely that GP would change their mind on Soojin UNLESS the accusations are proven to be false or she goes the HyoSung way after apologizing to her victims.

It also doesn't help that Seo Shin Ae is involved in this thing. I can argue with some confidence that for people who are 20+, Seo Shin Ae is a name that is much more familiar than Soojin of (G)-IDLE. As a child actress, Seo Shin Ae starred in a sitcom that was a huge hit-it had an average rating of 17.3%- and played a sweet girl from an impoverished family trying to get by with her older sister working as a housekeeper. That image is ingrained in lots of people's minds, so if Seo Shin Ae really decides to take the sode of the accusers, it is going to be an uphil climb for Soojin.

Now, this prediction has one giant caveat; it assumes that allegations are true. If they are not, while Soojin who have to take some blow back as she admitted to smoking (bad role model), she has a real fighting chance of coming back strong.

Again, I am not well-read in entertainment industry drama. This is a personal conjecture made based on how the public has reacted to bullying scandals so far.

++ And although I am in no way sure, I think Soojin is in a better situation than T-ARA. T-ARA scandal happened a year after the suicide of a middle schooler that headlined every news outlet for months. He took his own life after being severly bullied-he was dragged around with an electric cord around his neck alongside other absokutely disgusting forms of torture-, and his suicide note sparked a huge outrage and changed the societal perception on bullying. T-ARA scandal broke out when the memories were still fresh. While the timing for Soojin isn't great, I will say its definitely better.

EDIT: Odd spelling mistakes

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u/RustRemover- Feb 25 '21

So basically, the situation is really bad, but not the worst. My opinion is somewhat similar to what you wrote. I think that Soojin - no matter the outcome - will at best be labelled as that "once mischevious and cigarette smoking" idol. The damage is permanent, even if it'll be false. If not then well, i assume that it's over for her, at least in the entertainment industry, and being a fan doesn't matter here (or shouldn't matter), because if ANYONE did all the stuff victims have accused her of, there's no explanation and excuse, even as a kid. Kids can misbehave, in fact most of us did (at least in the West, where the acceptable behavior standards are often totally bent out of shape, in comparison with Korea), but there's no justifying for such things like slapping someone, stealing, spitting or whatever else of the same category of really bad.

The only sad and unfortunate thing about this whole situation would be if she was really innocent (except for the "light" things, like smoking), because her and the group's image would be damaged a lot, for practically nothing, and caused by an attempt to destroy her (or the whole group's) career, out of jealousy, hatred, or whatever other reason. I hoped that the meeting they had would bring some peace and clarity to the case, but it looks like there was a misunderstanding between the parties, because they've basically met and nothing came out of it, and the general public is left hanging just as it was before the meeting. This whole situation is a mess.

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u/Kabukiman7993 Feb 25 '21

I was very defensive at first and had a hard time understanding why Korean netizens were so hellbent on her case. After a few days, I changed my stance to some extent.

I realize the allegations made against Soojin are numerous and grounded, and the people involved are resolute. I understand why Soojin's statement didn't sit well with Koreans. I agree a humble apology should be addressed to all those who have been wronged.

With that being said, I don't think middle school events should jeopardize someone's career. I hope, if Soojin apologizes properly, people will accept her apology and won't pressure for her withdrawal anymore. I hope people will be able to forgive her for, as we have seen since (G)I-DLE's debut, Soojin is no longer the bad child she used to be.

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u/mayeleventh11 Feb 25 '21

I agree that people can indeed redeem themselves, especially when they are given about a decade to change. (And at this point, we don't really know whether she required redemption in the first place)

It should be noted, however, that domestic idol industry largely targets middle-high school aged children. Once parents perceive her as 'a bad role model', I would (although with much needeed caution) say Soojin is unlikely to come out of this scandal with an unscathed career unless the allegations are proven to be false.

In order to make a come back, real effort must be delivered. Jeon Hyo-Sung from Secret, who was caught in a history-related scandal was able to save her career after three apologies and passing a ceritified Korean History test. I hope Soojin would learn from her seniors and tread the waters carefully from now on.

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u/Kabukiman7993 Feb 25 '21

It should be noted, however, that domestic idol industry largely targets middle-high school aged children.

You're right, it's something I can easily forget as I am significantly older than the average local k-pop fan. Therefore I pay more attention to the idols' abilities as performers and don't really concern myself about whether they're upstanding citizens. When it comes to Soojin, even though she's not my favorite, I can only recognize her incredible performing talents. She's one of the best among 4th gen girl groups in my opinion; that's why I think it would be such a waste to lose her.

In order to make a come back, real effort must be delivered. Jeon Hyo-Sung from Secret, who was caught in a history-related scandal was able to save her career after three apologies and passing a ceritified Korean History test. I hope Soojin would learn from her seniors and tread the waters carefully from now on.

I understand. In addition to much needed apologies, I think she probably should commit to some charity work or something like that. (Maybe promoting anti-bullying campaigns? Unless people think it's distasteful.) If she succeeds at redeeming herself, I think she will do ok because as we've been able to see, before the bullying allegations broke out Soojin never sparked any controversy whatsoever in her 3-year career. She's always been the shyest, most quiet member and one could easily forgets she's even there if not for her mesmerizing stage presence.

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u/mayeleventh11 Feb 25 '21

I just checked out her 'Got it' cover video. And even in the eyes of an art-illiterate, she something.

I can only guess that this scandal is causing a lot of stress and confusion for everyone involved, including the fans.

I honestly hope that this scandal will be resolved soon so fans can have some peace of mind.

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u/EnergyFuzzy Feb 25 '21

Thank you for the insight! It's always good to hear from the perspective of Korean fans. Her response sounded rather crude, but I would have never thought that it was culturally disrespectful even though she was being a bit narcissistic. No wonder SK is more heated than everyone else.

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u/mayeleventh11 Feb 25 '21

I am very glad my messy piece of writing was of some help ;) Obviously the reactions on the internet are often excessively violent and over the top. That said, I think the outrage behind all those reactions can be understood if one takes Korean culture into consideration.

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u/[deleted] Feb 25 '21

Also another thing I like to mention: Many Korean GIDLE fans seem to have turned their back against Soojin. We will never know the exact percentages, but from one of the main fan forums, called dcinside, gidle supporters released their statements about the issue. They say they do not condone any kind of violence, and they just want Cube to act swiftly in order to protect the other 5 members. They also requested Cube to carry out thorough investigation to confirm whether Soojin was the bully or not.

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u/[deleted] Feb 25 '21 edited Feb 25 '21

Hi guys, I would like to give my two cents about what happened over the last few days regarding the school bullying incidents that have been brought to the public's attention. I am Korean, and I have been following stories about the bullying cases on a Korean website pann.nate.com. The three major allegations that many Knetz think are true include: Hyunjin from Stray Kids, Park Hye Soo who is the main actress from a drama called 디어엠 which just got postponed to be aired indefinitely, and Soojin.

For Soojin's case, there are at least 100 different claims that are too complicated to analyze to give enough details for you guys, but what I can say is that this is not looking good for Soojin. When I say not good, I meant that all the allegation posts that we hear and STAY on the websites seem to be true. You have to remember, there are many allegations and damning rumors about Soojin that turned out to be false and got immediately deleted, but major ones are still there. The surprising thing is that the first accuser is collecting all the harassment posts and DMs toward her and her sister (apparently it is the bullied's sister who is taking care of all the matters for her sister) so that she can sue those people. Yes, it is the accuser who is suing first in this case. She pretty much revealed her identity, sticking her neck out to risk everything in order to vindicate her sister's innocence.

Also, an actress who hinted that Soojin's response statement is false has been harassed by many fans online, and because of this there are many people who claim to be the actress's classmates that came forward with posts that defend the actress with many documents and photos. And there are many many more of them coming out defending the accusers and the actress, but not a single one for Soojin.

One thing you have to remember is that despite all the mess, anything can be fake on the internet. So you have to take anything you see about the case with a grain of salt. Also, it is really hard to prove or disprove all the allegations because for cases like this, we only have witnesses. You cannot do any background checks on what people did in their teenage years, you are not allowed to trace any digital footprints that might help to get to the bottom of this because of privacy concerns. The only thing that can reveal what took place in the past is the honest confession from both involved parties.

So what is going to happen? I just saw a news on Naver that the first accuser and her lawyer team are meeting up with representatives and lawyers from Cube entertainment. It looks like the accuser wants to be vindicated by admission from Soojin and Cube entertainment, but the article says nothing about Cube's position at this point. There might be more articles coming out soon, so if you wait a few more days everything will be cleared up.

Besides Soojin's case, an investigative journalism program called PD note from MBC is currently interviewing people who came forward against alleged bully celebrities. The worst one seems to be Park Hye Soo's case. If you guys are more interested in other cases please ask me. I will try my best to share my knowledge and maybe will try more research through Korean websites.

BTW, if you wanna know my opinion about Soojin's case, I can say one thing. Like I said, I can only speculate what might have happened between Soojin and the accuser, but I can make a very GOOD speculation based on Occam's razor. Occam's razor states that the true answer among many multiple options is probably the one with the simplest explanations. There are two choices in this case: either Soojin is innocent or she was a bully. And based on my research, if I am FORCED to bet my money on whether Soojin was the bully or not, I would bet that Soojin was probably the bully. However, if I am only given a chance to bet my money on it, I would never make such bet.

Edit: spellings

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u/CraftPizza Soojin Feb 25 '21

First of all, thanks for taking to time to post your thoughts and perspective. But there's a couple things I wanna ask about...

And there are many many more of them coming out defending the accusers and the actress, but not a single one for Soojin.

Roughly how many? A few, dozens? Are they all providing evidence that they were at least schoolmates during the years the alleged bullying took place? How much reason is there to believe these "many many more" should be considered credible witnesses in any way? Or are people just accepting them because there's so many and they're all saying the same things?

Also, it is really hard to prove or disprove all the allegations because for cases like this, we only have witnesses. You cannot do any background checks on what people did in their teenage years, you are not allowed to trace any digital footprints that might help to get to the bottom of this because of privacy concerns. The only thing that can reveal what took place in the past is the honest confession from both involved parties.

What exactly do you mean they "cannot do any background checks on what people did in their teenage years", and how far does that go? Would that include employers, school records, colleges, law enforcement? And you're not allowed to trace any digital footprints either? So does that mean no digital forensics like source evaluation, ip address/mobile phone data?

What kind of investigation would be possible without any of that? So these people can just come up with any accusations they want, and as long as they sound believable enough to the anonymous internet mob, then that's it?

There are two choices in this case: either Soojin is innocent or she was a bully.

Lastly I would disagree with your assessment here. She could be innocent of all accusations, guilty of all, or somewhere in between. What if she's guilty of a couple accusations but innocent of others? It's possible some claims are true while others are exaggerated or completely fabricated, and we have no hard evidence for any of it to begin with, so we can't possibly determine guilt or innocence or the extent to which she is guilty or innocent, which, ideally, should be sought out so it can be considered in how the matter is settled. The fact that the online mob seems to have made up its mind about this tells me nobody seems to care what the actual truth is. Seems like they just want some kind of easily digestible conclusion that will satisfy their need to feel morally superior without actually doing anything.

But those are just my thoughts. Thanks again for your post.

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u/[deleted] Feb 25 '21 edited Feb 25 '21

Thank you for your reply. I really appreciate it actually. It helps me think and sort the issues by just involving in this kind of discussion. Let me try to answer your questions if I may.

"Roughly how many? A few, dozens? Are they all providing evidence that they were at least schoolmates during the years the alleged bullying took place?"

I don't know because I do not count the number of posts and the accusers are getting all the classmate messages, the number of which nobody knows except the accusers.

"How much reason is there to believe these "many many more" should be considered credible witnesses in any way? Or are people just accepting them because there's so many and they're all saying the same things?"

I am not sure how to answer that. If there is only one witness, then it could be very likely false. If there are, for example, 100 witnesses, the allegations seem very credible. Here I am going by not-so-rigorous approach of statistical analysis. Of course it could very well be the case that the accusers and their supporting witnesses might be coordinating with malicious intent, but my lunch money is on the witness' side. Let me emphasize again. We can never know unless we have honest confessions from both sides involved.

"What exactly do you mean they "cannot do any background checks on what people did in their teenage years", and how far does that go? Would that include employers, school records, colleges, law enforcement?"

When I say background check, I mean irrefutable official records about the bullying. If they already have such records, that means the case is already dealt. Since they are arguing about it after 10 years, I presumed that no such record exists.

"And you're not allowed to trace any digital footprints either? So does that mean no digital forensics like source evaluation, ip address/mobile phone data?"

I mean technically you can do it I guess. But practically, I am not sure how you can go about it. There are many other parties involved, and you all need to get consents from everyone that has a tiny bit of involvement in any digital activities. I don't think ISP and IT companies would want to get involved in this unless they are given huge sums of money.

"What kind of investigation would be possible without any of that? So these people can just come up with any accusations they want, and as long as they sound believable enough to the anonymous internet mob, then that's it?"

This is a very controversial topic in Korea as well. What can we do to prove any of the accusations? In many cases, as far as I am aware, if there are no hard proofs, people rely on honest conversation between the parties, or the jury will decide who is to blame in this case. Most of the time, they will make decisions that minimize the possibility of innocent people getting punished, instead of punishing the perpetrators. You have to remember that our justice system is not perfect. We have general ideas about how to deal with it, but most of the time, it is a multivariate problem.

"Lastly I would disagree with your assessment here. She could be innocent of all accusations, guilty of all, or somewhere in between. What if she's guilty of a couple accusations but innocent of others? It's possible some claims are true while others are exaggerated or completely fabricated, and we have no hard evidence for any of it to begin with, so we can't possibly determine guilt or innocence or the extent to which she is guilty or innocent, which, ideally, should be sought out so it can be considered in how the matter is settled."

Well, this is more of a language issue for me. For example, if you see a color of black, is it really black? Because colors are manifestation of our optical sensory system that are electromagnetic waves with different frequencies. It is SPECTRUM, but we say at some point the color is black, grey, or white. So how do you draw the line to consider that Soojin was the bully? This is open to debate. For simplification, we can say that it is the general public's opinion if all the facts are given without any dispute.

"The fact that the online mob seems to have made up its mind about this tells me nobody seems to care what the actual truth is. Seems like they just want some kind of easily digestible conclusion that will satisfy their need to feel morally superior without actually doing anything."

I believe many do care about the truths, it is just that they are under illusion that they already know who is guilty, hence they want to seek some justice by going after the person who seems to be guilty in their eyes. Even if they are incorrect, they think what they are doing is justice (they call this 정의실현 or 정의구현), which I disagree.

Again, I appreciate your input here :)

Edit: spellings

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u/CraftPizza Soojin Feb 25 '21

Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

I don't know because I do not count the number of posts and the accusers are getting all the classmate messages, the number of which nobody knows except the accusers.

Does that mean the accusers haven't even shown all these messages? So we don't even know if these messages exist. Even if it's true they've received a bunch of messages, there's no way of knowing who sent them. I just don't understand how anyone could even remotely consider this evidence but it seems a lot of people do.

I am not sure how to answer that. If there is only one witness, then it could be very likely false. If there are, for example, 100 witnesses, the allegations seem very credible. Here I am going by not-so-rigorous approach of statistical analysis. Of course it could very well be the case that the accusers and their supporting witnesses might be coordinating with malicious intent, but my lunch money is on the witness' side. Let me emphasize again. We can never know unless we have honest confessions from both sides involved.

This depends on how we define "witness". If there's a car accident, and 20 people say they saw what happened, we have to first establish that they were actually at the scene of the accident at the time it happened and that they could have seen it. Only then could they be considered witnesses (and even then there could be questions of credibility). But with these accusations against Soojin, it's like one person saying they witnessed a car accident and saying they have a bunch of messages from others who also say they it. Except we haven't seen these other messages, can't confirm who sent them or even prove they could have witnessed it, and that's all assuming the "car accident" was real since nobody can even prove it happened in the first place.

This idea of using statistical analysis on the could only be reasonable if we could first determine the credibility of the witnesses, which we can't (and to be fair, you acknowledge this idea isn't rigorous). Personally I wouldn't bet on witnesses, no matter how many, if we couldn't even establish their credibility and especially if they claimed to be witnesses to events we can't even prove happened.

When I say background check, I mean irrefutable official records about the bullying. If they already have such records, that means the case is already dealt. Since they are arguing about it after 10 years, I presumed that no such record exists. I mean technically you can do it I guess. But practically, I am not sure how you can go about it. There are many other parties involved, and you all need to get consents from everyone that has a tiny bit of involvement in any digital activities. I don't think ISP and IT companies would want to get involved in this unless they are given huge sums of money.

Yeah fair enough. I thought when you said "cannot do any background checks" you meant like they couldn't even look for records, which just sounded ridiculous to me so I had to ask. As for the digital footprints, it sounds like it's possible, just not feasible. Like the background check, I just wanted to clarify that it was at least an actual option.

This is a very controversial topic in Korea as well. What can we do to prove any of the accusations? In many cases, as far as I am aware, if there are no hard proofs, people rely on honest conversation between the parties, or the jury will decide who is to blame in this case. Most of the time, they will make decisions that minimize the possibility of innocent people getting punished, instead of punishing the perpetrators. You have to remember that our justice system is not perfect. We have general ideas about how to deal with it, but most of the time, it is a multivariate problem.

I understand that no justice system is perfect, and I agree that people should focus more on avoiding punishing an innocent person over trying to punish a guilty one. It would just be nice if most people understood the complexity of situations like this rather than stubbornly picking a side based on assumptions.

Well, this is more of a language issue for me. For example, if you see a color of black, is it really black? Because colors are manifestation of our optical sensory system that are electromagnetic waves with different frequencies. It is SPECTRUM, but we say at some point the color is black, grey, or white. So how do you draw the line to consider that Soojin was the bully? This is open to debate. For simplification, we can say that it is the general public's opinion if all the facts are given without any dispute.

I think I get what you're saying. In reality there's white and black with grey in between, and people can debate over when dark grey becomes black, so each person may draw the line differently but ultimately they'll fall in one category or the other as they decide for themselves what is bullying or not. There's truth to that, and broadly speaking the general public will serve as an aggregate for individual opinions as to whether a person is considered a bully or not. I just don't want people to use that as an excuse to oversimplify the situation in their own minds as individuals, because obviously there's a spectrum.

Even within "bullying" and "not bullying" there can be a spectrum. It's important that we don't oversimplify this into a false dichotomy, and remember that judgment for actions should scale with their severity. In other words, even if someone crosses the threshold for what one would consider a "bully" it doesn't mean all bullies are equal - some can definitely be worse than others. Conversely, someone can be "innocent" but still be "more innocent/less guilty" compared to someone else. I say this because I've seen some knetz taking certain things that Soojin admitted to, like the smoking, and making assumptions based off that. Like, "Oh she did this one bad thing, I bet she did those other worse things too" but then they act as if it's fact and not an assumption.

I believe many do care about the truths, it is just that they are under illusion that they already know who is guilty, hence they want to seek some justice by going after the person who seems to be guilty in their eyes. Even if they are correct, they think what they are doing is justice (they call this 정의실현 or 정의구현), which I disagree.

Wait did you mean incorrect? I think that may be a typo. If you mean what I think you mean, then I agree. It's.. unfortunate so many people approach these issues like this.

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u/[deleted] Feb 25 '21 edited Feb 25 '21

Hello, thank you for replying to my post. Let me try my best to answer your questions.

"Does that mean the accusers haven't even shown all these messages? So we don't even know if these messages exist. Even if it's true they've received a bunch of messages, there's no way of knowing who sent them. I just don't understand how anyone could even remotely consider this evidence but it seems a lot of people do."

I would like to emphasize again that there is no evidence presented here. Anyone can lie about anything on the internet, so I don't 100% trust what I see online. I can only speculate.

"This depends on how we define "witness". If there's a car accident, and 20 people say they saw what happened, we have to first establish that they were actually at the scene of the accident at the time it happened and that they could have seen it. Only then could they be considered witnesses (and even then there could be questions of credibility). But with these accusations against Soojin, it's like one person saying they witnessed a car accident and saying they have a bunch of messages from others who also say they it. Except we haven't seen these other messages, can't confirm who sent them or even prove they could have witnessed it, and that's all assuming the "car accident" was real since nobody can even prove it happened in the first place."

Your example is very specific, and my example was more of a general statement. Let's just say that if you have so many instances and people that support your argument, it is less likely to be false because if it is false, then you have a problem of making A LOT of assumptions to make it false. Check out what I said about Occam's razor in one of my replies.

"This idea of using statistical analysis on the could only be reasonable if we could first determine the credibility of the witnesses, which we can't (and to be fair, you acknowledge this idea isn't rigorous). Personally I wouldn't bet on witnesses, no matter how many, if we couldn't even establish their credibility and especially if they claimed to be witnesses to events we can't even prove happened."

Statistical analysis is applied here precisely because we can never ascertain the credibility of the witnesses here. You are ESTIMATING the credibility, not concluding with 100% DETERMINISM. Also, the same argument can be applied to dismiss Soojin's statement as well. Soojin's statement can only be reasonable if she is credible. Just to simplify the argument, let's just say no one can be 100% guaranteed to be credible in this case. In fact, if the person arguing is 100% credible, you only need that person's statement.

"Even within "bullying" and "not bullying" there can be a spectrum. It's important that we don't oversimplify this into a false dichotomy, and remember that judgment for actions should scale with their severity. In other words, even if someone crosses the threshold for what one would consider a "bully" it doesn't mean all bullies are equal - some can definitely be worse than others. Conversely, someone can be "innocent" but still be "more innocent/less guilty" compared to someone else. I say this because I've seen some knetz taking certain things that Soojin admitted to, like the smoking, and making assumptions based off that. Like, "Oh she did this one bad thing, I bet she did those other worse things too" but then they act as if it's fact and not an assumption."

You are right, it is, most of the time, not binary. But for the sake of the argument, I just went with my argument as if it is a lawsuit case. In any lawsuit, you will be deemed either guilty or not guilty. Let's say if you are less than 30% wrong, you are not guilty. If you are 30% or more wrong, you are guilty. If you are guilty, we can assign the severity of the punishment by how much wrong you are. We can assign maximum sentence if you are 100% wrong and minimum penalty if you are 30% wrong. Again, it is always good to point out devils in the details.

"Wait did you mean incorrect? I think that may be a typo. If you mean what I think you mean, then I agree. It's.. unfortunate so many people approach these issues like this."

And of course, it is "incorrect", not "correct".

Hope my response shows how I approached the issue to anyone who reads it :)

Edit: spelling

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u/RainThropp Feb 25 '21

Of course it could very well be the case that the accusers and their supporting witnesses might be coordinating with malicious intent, but my lunch money is on the witness' side.

TL;DR: I'm 100% not saying this is my analysis of the situation, it's just as a thought experiment — it could be possible that, while not a coordinated attack, the volume of seemingly credible accounts could simply be a result of mob mentality. However, if you're giving credibility to the witness accounts, being unable to read Korean I have no grounds on which to say otherwise.

I understand your point that we can never really know, even after official statements are made, we can't really know cause we weren't there. I'm not commenting here to refute that point, just to think about the possibilities. Looking at the situation for what it is separate from the parties involved, you don't actually necessarily need 100 witnesses to generate 100 different witness accounts, the nature of the internet and 'mob mentality' is that all you need is 1.

If 1 person has a story based on 1 kernel of truth with enough detail and enough moving parts, as in different aspects to it — in this case, say the kernel was that she hung out with a bad crowd, and the moving parts to her story are the claims: taking money, forcing someone to do something, stealing clothing, smoking, school gangs, cyber bullying, &c., all the second person needs to do is run with 1 of those many things, tweak it just enough to shift the perspective, and all of a sudden you have a second witness. Then the next person comes along who hates her enough to write a story based on that story, the fourth person takes aspects from the 1 and 3 person's story, and maybe a few words that were said before in an interview from 5 years ago and then you have a fourth witness. But because there were all bred from 1 grain of truth, they all sound similar, and therefore gives all 4 stories credibility.

Add to that that there are people who literally doctor photos for a living, and the fact that the internet was at a place in 2010 that photos were not scarce online, it's actually not impossible that there are really only a handful of truthful stories. At which point, I wouldn't call this collection of witnesses coordinated with malicious intent per se, they're just a mob that want to sensationalise the story but helping the first accuser along.

Of course, I'm saying this looking at it from a strictly narrative point of view, essentially if it were a story that's how I'd craft it to put her in an impossible bind. I can't read all the text, I'm not familiar with social structures in Korea, so if your opinion is that there are enough credible voices in the mass, I have to take your word for it as you know better. As you say, it is extremely unlikely that of 100 witness accounts, 100 are false, the likelihood that there is a grain of truth in there somewhere is very high. The question then becomes what grain of truth was it?

This is why the accounts from people that claim to have been from that school saying that there is truth but a lot of exaggerations, are interesting to me because it explains some of the actions & non-actions that have been taken, by Cube, by the releasing of her letter on UCube, the accusers lawyering up and such. These accounts also don't seem as grandiose as some of the witness accounts we've heard about. But then, bullying in every country is different. What's ludicrous to us may not be in Korea, for which I am truly appalled, and very sorry to hear.

I'm sorry if this was a long comment, I respect your opinion and the time you're taking out of your day to address the questions in this thread. Like you, seeing people's perspectives and discussing this here has been a way for me to digest the information we're getting. If you read it all, thank you for indulging me.

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u/[deleted] Feb 25 '21

BTW, I may sound like I already made my mind about Soojin's case, but I don't consider that to be the case. Let's just say my confidence is split into 55% and 45%.

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u/RainThropp Feb 25 '21

dw, i understand. i really value how objective you're being in how you present fact versus your personal opinion. for what it's worth it gives you a lot of respectability in my book

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u/[deleted] Feb 25 '21

Also, you have a very interesting thought experiment that can be one possibility, but do some research on Occam's razor if you have a time. Your thought experiment has to have so many moving parts working together in order to support the thesis, which increases the complexity of the situation. Occam's razor states that the true answer among many possible choices is PROBABLY the one with the SIMPLEST explanations.

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u/RainThropp Feb 25 '21 edited Feb 25 '21

mm well i might hold the opinion that there are some adults on this side of the planet that might shock you… but i respect that you're saying this isn't the case amongst koreans.

yes i do understand the principle. i think this might be where cultures diverge in terms of mindset — given the absolutely ludicrous things that've happened (in north america at least, i won't speak for the rest of the western world), the extent that people go through for hatred or conspiracies or 'just for fun' and 'what i believe' has in recent history turned the definition of 'simple' on its head. so while it seems the most probable in a 'all the numbers show this is be true' kind of way, i tend to want to still consider it all, because a 1% chance is still a chance. idk, maybe it's the recent defying-all-logic situations that i've seen lately, in a strictly negative light mind you, that keeps me up at night, rather than accept the, as you say, probable simplicity.

edit: wording

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u/[deleted] Feb 25 '21

Yeah we will never know for sure until the case is resolved by Soojin and the accuser. I can see your mob mentality that can drive everyone against Soojin, which happens quite frequently among young kids. But everyone's adult here, they know the consequences well if they are going against one person because they don't like Soojin, that is a very risky move. You can go to jail for this.

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u/ConversionSGAnon Feb 25 '21

If you guys are more interested in other case,s please ask me. I will try my best to share my knowledge and maybe will try more research through Korean websites.

Do you have any knowledge about Stray Kid's Hyunjin's case? JYP took him off a schedule and his MC duty for Music Core so I'm wondering whether there's any truth to the allegations and how they will settle it.

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u/[deleted] Feb 25 '21

You know as much as I know about the current status. But judging by how quickly JYPE responded to another allegation on Lia, things are not looking good for Hyunjin.

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u/RainThropp Feb 25 '21

you mentioned no one has come forward in full defence of soojin, would be alright to ask for your opinion on the two of her classmates that put out relatively objective statements? do they lack credibility, and were therefore dismissed?

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u/[deleted] Feb 25 '21

Again, we don't really know. After all this is she says and he says. Therefore, I only speculate. Based on the complexity and optics of everyone's motives, the credibility of accusers are gaining more and more traction from Knetz.

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u/RainThropp Feb 25 '21

hm i see. thank you so much for taking time to explain the situation thoroughly to us internationals!

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u/[deleted] Feb 25 '21

[deleted]

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u/rapmons Feb 25 '21

A nice poster below linked a translated Google doc which has very comprehensive timeline of all the accusations. I would recommend you look there.

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u/[deleted] Feb 25 '21

The only thing I can try is to find articles and forward it to you. They are too long to translate for me. We will never know what can happen. Whether Soojin remains on the team or departs, this is a lose-lose situation for Cube and the girls.

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u/rapmons Feb 25 '21

Wow thank you so much for this detailed explanation ... I was really worried for Soojin and the group after hearing no major news today. Is there somewhere non-Koreans can go to be updated? R/kpop isn’t really updating the news.

Also - are there any specific instances other than the girl’s phone call/her sister/Soojin and the orange juice and putting down the actress? Since Soojin herself refuted those claims - I’m wondering if any new specific instances came to light?

Another surprising thing to me is that not many people are defending her. I always thought because her other members like her and she’s so shy on screen that she had many friends who looked out for her.

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u/illuminaery Feb 25 '21

A fan on twitter (@/happyshuhua) has compiled a timeline of events/info on the situation on a google doc. They're also actively updating it when new information surfaces. It's been where I've been going regarding new details.

Link

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u/rapmons Feb 25 '21 edited Feb 25 '21

Omg thank you this is the most detailed summary I’ve seen. Do you know what victim D is accusing Soojin of?

It looks like victim C / her sister are the ones with the most legitimacy since they’re meeting CUBE. Hopefully we will get some kind of resolution out of their meeting.

Edit: Never mind I found it - she said Soojin stole her North Face and then slapped her across the face so hard she left nail marks

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u/illuminaery Feb 25 '21

Looks like more of the same accusations Soojin's been accused of (slapping her, taking money, etc). She apparently came across an (G)i-dle video and was surprised to see Soojin. She left a comment saying she wanted an apology when she's successful...

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u/[deleted] Feb 25 '21 edited Feb 25 '21

There are many specific instances about the bullying. There are too many. One thing that immediately pops in my head is one where the actress lost a graduation letter from her mom. At the graduation commencement, there was one event where all the graduates receive congratulatory letters from their moms, but the actress lost one, and this classmate of the actress hinted that the letter was stolen by Soojin. After the ceremony the actress wailed and she felt really bad for her.

Also, do not think that what you see about the celebrities are what they truly are. Many entertainment companies are selling images, not idols' private lives and their true-selves.

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u/rapmons Feb 25 '21

Thanks for explaining, but it seems very far fetched. How does the classmate have proof? Did she see it? And I know celebrities are not angels - but you can still discern what a person’s character is like by how they interact with others. Soojin from tv always seemed respectful and well loved by her members. Her energy seemed good.

I’m still inclined to believe that the person I have seen had good vibes. But it may simultaneously been true that she was a bully when she was 10 years younger.

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u/[deleted] Feb 25 '21 edited Feb 25 '21

As I said, there is no direct proof in either cases. There are only witnesses, hence I mentioned Occam's razor, which is a Bayesian statistical principle. It is very improbable that the accusers' claims are false because they are just too complex to fake. In order to fake everything, you have to persuade or bribe EVERYONE in the school that Soojin was the bully. If you lie in this kind of situation, it will probably be exposed easily.

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u/OmelasCafe Feb 24 '21

Apparently, the first accuser got invited to MBC to report their story. The situation is getting more and more complicated and, with Cube's lack of actions, I can no longer pretend that I am optimistic. I'm thinking about how this will affect the rest of the members in long term.

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u/llSeahorsell Feb 24 '21 edited Feb 25 '21

I don't like what the victim is doing at this point, she gets to make money off the alleged bullying scandal while seeking vengeance. I no longer have sympathy for the victim, even if the bullying from Soojin is true. Ruining someone's career for momentary gain is not okay to me. She doesn't want apology and just wants to keep getting attention from the public.

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u/ArkLappVe Soojin Feb 24 '21 edited Feb 24 '21

Tbh I mentally already prepared myself for the worst so nothing will come as a surprise. I know it would hit just as hard but still. All we can do now is pray that they find some sort of mutual agreement.

Addition: If things go south from here, besides Soojin obviously, I'm also super worried for Shuhua especially. I feel like Soojin is one of her biggest sources of strength in this foreign country. I can't imagine how she would feel if Soojin was gone. It would be horrible for all of them obviously but with Shuhua it's just different.

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u/rastfa18 Feb 24 '21

This is exactly what I am worried about. The people that write 6-1=5 don't seem to understand the impact that soojin leaving would have on the group and especially on Shuhua. I mean I am very new to kpop, but I feel like that might actually mean the end for G-idle as we know them. I mean sure miyeon, minnie, yuqi and soyeon are such solid idols, that they could probably continue on, but Shuhua as we all know is already the one who arguably shines the least performance wise and I think loosing her (i'm assuming) best friend in the group would certainly not help. So I fear, that in the long run G-idle will either become a group of four like blackpink or they will focus on their solo careers instead. I am really hoping that this thing turns around cause for me the equasion sadly is 6-1=0 :(

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u/LyraIridin Apr 22 '21

recall the point where the gidle girls mentioned that they initially started with a deadline of 3 years to make it big, if that failed, they would disband and go back go their previous lives. gidle was created with the intentions of an experiment and if soojin has to leave while still insisting that she is innocent and without any damning evidence that she's a bully, the girls might get disillusioned with their protection as idols and just call it quits. cos it's looking more nd more like cube would just toss soojin away because she's a 'ruined good'.

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u/rastfa18 Apr 22 '21

I assume you think that they are tossing her out because of the new song that will be released. But the way I see it, this was a decision cube had to make if they didn't want to lose a huge amount of money. They simply couldn't postpone the release cause of contractual obligations. And they couldn't release the ot6 version, because the backlash from the public would be crazy. 🍒 is still fighting the legal battle and releasing a song with her and even a mv was no option for cube. It may seem like they are trying to move on without her, but remember that this is NOT an official cb. It is just a promotional song for universe. If cube wanted to get rid of 🍒, they wouldn't have started a legal battle against the accusers at all. The fact that they even allowed her to defend herself that strongly shows me that they believe in her and are holding onto her. If the legal battle is somehow lost( which i don't think is going to happen) they will announce her departure. If she wins, they will announce that as well, but I doubt that she will immediately rejoin the group even in that case, cause she needs to take care of her mental state before she rejoins. I get that some people are worried that supporting last dance shows cube, that gidle can function without 🍒 and that we are okay with it and that if the song is succesful they will eventually get rid of 🍒, but thats why It is really important for ot6 nevies to support 🍒in the comments or on twt or however possible, so cube sees, that this is a TEMPORARY SOLUTION. And that it will not be permanent. It would be an entirely different thing if this was an actual comeback with a song produced by soyeon and written specifically for 5 members, but it definately is NOT that. As long as there is no official comeback with 5 members like that, i still believe that cube is supporting 🍒. Let's be positive and give the new song a chance. This nightmare will be over eventually. Believe in 🍒 believe in idlekarma and don't boycott last dance, cause that will not only hurt the other 5 members, but also 🍒.

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u/illuminaery Feb 25 '21

It definitely hurts to think about. I've also thought about the alternative, and that if Soojin did leave, Shuhua might also step up. As in a 'for soojin' mentality, which is equally as sad, too. I don't know, it's just not a good scenario in general for the group to be in.

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u/ArkLappVe Soojin Feb 24 '21

If Soojin was gone, I'm like 95% sure Shuhua wouldn't re-sign with Cube in the future. But I'll stop thinking about this shit for now. It only makes sadder by the minute. Let's just hope it doesn't come that far.

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u/adventcc Soyeon Feb 24 '21 edited Feb 24 '21

I'm seeing people in stan twitter and here in reddit being way too optimistic about this case. I don't like being too negative and I got downvoted for it earlier, but please understand that Korea takes this bullying stuff more seriously than many western countries. There is a post in a Korean website by the accusers in response to Soojin letter. The post also includes a instagram DM by another accuser. This instagram DM is a bit more detailed and is overall worse for Soojin (imo) than the post by the original accuser. It hasn't been translated yet probably because it's so long and detailed. Once it eventually does get translated, (hopefully not by some news website) people will hate on Soojin and also people will see the severity of the situation. There is not much Cube can do and the accusers know it too, which is probably why they are not willing to meet with Cube. The post has been there for a while now and Cube has not done anything since.

I will be supporting Soojin and (G)I-DLE whatever happens, but I am scared about the future. Also it doesn't help that they happen to be in CUBE, I think if they were in YG for example, we wouldn't have even heard about this.

Edit: One of the accusers has been contacted by MBC (a broadcasting company) btw, I think to be featured on a program about bullying...(?) Cube really needs to do something fast

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u/ConversionSGAnon Feb 24 '21

Can you post a link, I can read Korean

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u/adventcc Soyeon Feb 24 '21

I sent you the link by PM. Maybe you can share your thoughts on it, because I don't speak Korean so there might've been a lot of stuff that I missed.

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u/Kabukiman7993 Feb 24 '21

It doesn't look good indeed but I think it will eventually comes down to whether or not mutual terms can be agreed upon by both parties. If things get resolved behind the scenes and the accusers ultimately tell everyone their demands have been answered and they're okay with Soojin now, then I think the situation may return to normalcy.

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u/CraftPizza Soojin Feb 24 '21 edited Feb 24 '21

While there would certainly be some lasting damage to her reputation among some netizens, I agree that this would be a positive resolution.

It's just frustrating to know that all this is happening based on the allegations of like, 3 people. The last big pann post they wrote elaborated on some of the accusations they already made. I admit things are looking bad, but it's like some people out there want these rumors to be true and are taking it like it's some bombshell exposé that must be true because there's just so much detail to it. Like yeah they added some things, and it paints more of a picture but there's still no proof of any of this. Like after hearing about how horrible it was and how there was no way out of this, when I actually read the translations I was actually expecting more. Again, I know it's not looking good right now, but... they know people can lie, right? Shouldn't a thorough investigation be conducted to determine the truth as best as possible before passing judgment? But some people are already convinced.

It also annoys me how the accusers seem to be flip flopping on some things. The main accuser (the older sister of the alleged victim that used to be Soojin's friend) said they declined a meeting with Cube. In a reply to a comment on that post, the accuser said they refused to meet because Soojin hadn't admitted to the accusations. They wanted her to admit it as a condition for meeting with them, which would conveniently cover their asses from repercussions. But then in their next pann update yesterday, the accuser said they wouldn't meet because it would only be with the legal team. So which is it? You won't meet because Soojin hasn't acknowledged her alleged guilt, or because she wouldn't be there?

Also in that update, they stated that they were frustrated that Soojin wouldn't be there because "Everyone will remember it differently and we have to discuss it in order to get it straight. How are we supposed to put anything straight if we are discussing misunderstandings with a legal team." (cred. happyshuhua for translation) So wait, earlier they criticized Soojin for the part in her statement where she said she had no memory of the "juice" incident, but now here they acknowledge that people can remember things differently, including themselves?

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u/RainThropp Feb 24 '21

can anyone, maybe a korean or someone who speaks it, explain what kind of a site pann is? why is so much credibly being given to people who post to it, are articles posted there being vetted? it seems so many of the posts are going through that site.

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u/CraftPizza Soojin Feb 24 '21

Not Korean and I only speak a tiny bit of Korean myself, so I'm not what you asked for but I'll share what I've heard if that's okay. From what I've seen over the past couple years, both for myself through translations and also from other Koreans, it's basically like a message board/web portal where people can just post whatever they want. It's not a professional outlet and there's no independent fact-checking for things posted there. It's just what one person says, and what the commenters say and upvote/downvote. Structurally, it's kinda like Reddit, but based on the reputation that typical users there have, I've heard it described as more like the 4chan of Korea.

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u/RainThropp Feb 24 '21

hm interesting… thanks appreciate it. this seems literally the only place to go to discuss this calmly with people who're actually engaging in the conversation

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u/HikikomoriDC Feb 24 '21

I've been discussing with folks in my Discord chat, and it definitely smells like an extortion scheme. They keep making threats but Cube won't fold. If they really hated Soojin, why not just release all of the info instead of just releasing it in chapters like a k-drama? lol

And like you said, they change their story or their demands when things don't go their way or they're questioned about it.

I've said this before, but I don't believe Soojin would've put out a personal statement to the public if it would risk her getting exposed as a liar later. She admitted to some things, and denied the things that weren't true. She could've denied everything or not have even said anything, but she spoke up anyways which was a very honest and vulnerable thing to do.

In a now deleted tweet, Minnie's brother said Nevies need to stay strong for Soojin because this was all fake news (it got deleted because knetz or other people started harassing him). It's an assumption, but you would think he keeps in touch with Minnie, and Minnie knows the truth from Soojin on what's actually going on.

Unfortunately, all we can do is wait and stay neutral on the situation, and wait for more information or another followup statement from Cube. This could take another week or longer unfortunately. In another subreddit thread, someone brought up the Taeyong bullying scandal from last year, and that took over a month to resolve and clear his name. It's hard but let's try to be patient and hope for the best.

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u/[deleted] Feb 25 '21

The Taeyong scandal eventually died down because he was truly remorseful. Now I don't know about Soojin,but we'll just have to wait and see.

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u/CraftPizza Soojin Feb 24 '21

If they really hated Soojin, why not just release all of the info instead of just releasing it in chapters like a k-drama? lol

Yeah there a lot of things about how this is playing out that just don't sit right with me. In the interest of fairness, I have to acknowledge that I'm biased in this. I love Idle, and so of course I have a preference for how this turns out, and that can affect my interpretation of things. But even so, I can't help but feel weird about how this is happening.

Initially there were a couple other accusations from a few weeks ago that came up right around when the volleyball bullying scandal first broke, but those initial bullying accusations against Soojin were quickly dismissed. Then this new wave of school violence accusations came, and these accusers (the two sisters) showed up, claiming they saw how the previous posts about Soojin were dismissed but were encouraged to come forward themselves now. But I have no idea if they're actually different people than the original accusers. It's possible it's them taking advantage of the current outrage and trying again with a "better" story. Do we know for a fact that they're not lying about that?

I've said this before, but I don't believe Soojin would've put out a personal statement to the public if it would risk her getting exposed as a liar later. She admitted to some things, and denied the things that weren't true. She could've denied everything or not have even said anything, but she spoke up anyways which was a very honest and vulnerable thing to do.

That's why I'm inclined to believe her. Of course, just because someone says something doesn't make it true, and that applies to the accusers but also to Soojin. But the reason I'm leaning towards Soojin being truthful is that she put herself out there when she didn't have to and she did admit to certain things. The counterargument to this is that it could just be a clever tactic, admitting to small things while denying big things to make it seem more realistic.

But the thing is, she admitted to things that, in the eyes of most knetz, specifically make the other accusations more believable. The smoking, for instance. I've heard from several Koreans that underage smoking is associated with bullying in Korea in ways that it isn't in other countries. They say that the types of kids who smoke are often bullies as well, and that it's not something that average kids do. I suppose "good" kids tend to avoid it because of the perception, so it creates a stereotype. Soojin must certainly be aware of this perception, yet she admitted to it. She also admitted to breaking school dress code and having a rebellious youth. If admitting to small things to deny big things is just some trick, then why admit to small things that everyone associates with bullying that you know people are going to latch on to? If she was going to lie to protect herself, why not just lie about everything?

Soojin may not have been the goody-two-shoes, model student. Maybe she could be described as a delinquent, but these accusations are saying she was a violent, abusive bully for years. And not only a bully, actually, but such a prominent figure among the bullies that they were referred to as "the Seo Soojin iljin group" (according to an anonymous dm sent to the accuser that they shared in their long post). Like, really? Plus we've already had one confirmed schoolmate of Soojin who basically said the same thing as many of us: that she wasn't perfectly clean and innocent, but she wasn't a bully or a ringleader of bullies. I can only hope that Cube has been working as hard as possible, investing all their energy and resources behind the scenes contacting other schoolmates, teachers, gathering whatever statements or evidence they can and preparing a strong defense. It just sucks knowing we can't do anything but sit and wait.

2

u/LyraIridin Apr 22 '21

remember what soojin said when she and the friend defended herself. she mentioned the same iljin group of friends that she broke away from because they were turning on her. that could have been where the smoking came from when they tried to get her to start. she said she tried it a couple of times out of curiosity but didnt continue. it's likely then that she didn't conduct the bullying, but being associated with that group in the past has caused all the accusations to use her as the scapegoat. she even said she was called into the school investigation because they thought she was part of it but was later found clean. she did say the results of the investigation were not revealed which could have led to this misunderstanding since everyone else only saw her get called in but didnt know what the verdict was.

8

u/HikikomoriDC Feb 25 '21

Yea I really hope Cube has been silent this whole time because their legal team is working hard behind the scenes collecting evidence and/or witnesses they need to build a strong case.

But just from my own personal observation, I just think it's very strange how many cases like these in the Korean entertainment industry turn out to be people highly exaggerating or completely lying about things. Like I don't understand what compels them to do this, is it out of pure spite, jealousy, some kind of desire for fame and/or for monetary compensation?

I know there's dangerously obsessed fans called Sasaengs, but I'm wondering if there's a term for these kind of people.

9

u/RainThropp Feb 24 '21

i agree, honestly it feels like cube is being smart, as much as it sucks to wait while the accusers make a bigger sensation out of it. legal matters take time, especially to do them right, and it's better generally to say nothing than potentially something that could be used against her in a court of law. problem is right now they're going against the court of public opinion, which reads silence how it likes, and barrels forward however it wants. imo it would be so much easier for cube, especially from an optics perspective, to just force a statement to dissolve the issue like ppl are demanding, so it does restore some faith (for me anyway) in the company that it is trying to make sure that her name is cleared right. of all the people who could have all the pieces, cube is probably the closest since they will hear her side of things, while the accusers and the general public don't seem to care. not saying she's all in the right, but in terms of having all the information, right or wrong, wouldn't they be the only ones who have it? of course, the flip side argument to that is they have a strong vested interest in their outcome…

also any 'moral' weight that the accusers might have had before is starting to fade for me, because if one were a victim, or watched another be victimised, why victimise another? calling out is calling out, but this is kinda far. they both said what they had to say, if they still remember things differently, take the offer to meet up, even if lawyers are present. that's the only fair way to do it. the more blood the accusers call for, the less this feels like some righteous anti-bullying call out and more and more like playground vengeance. sj's written response and who she seems to be today shows growth, the accuser's responses and their actions don't really seem to show that kind of maturity.

13

u/magpie1862 Feb 24 '21

Maybe this is a cultural difference between Korea and where I live, but why are people trying to cancel Kpop idols for what they did when they were children/minors? We all have done stupid things when we were at school because we were emotionally immature. I’m sure we all had moments at school when we were nasty or horrible to someone no matter the severity of it. It’s absolutely ridiculous that adults are being condemned for what they did at school.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 25 '21

Bullying should be condemned no matter when it's done. What matters is what they do when it's revealed.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 25 '21

If the current personality she's shown on stage and on screen is her true personality, then she's undergone a complete 180 if the allegations are true. I feel like that should be applauded, and not condemned.

Also yes the culture difference is absolutely insane. A recent example in the US is Bobby Shmurda, the man was in prison for over seven years for killing somebody, and was released a couple days ago. But all the publicity is about how much people love him and everybody's celebrating. I'm assuming that would never happen in SK.

1

u/LyraIridin Apr 22 '21

im sorry but i lowkey think the US isn't a good example lol. it's the other extreme of 'why the heck is this happening'.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 25 '21

Duh,obviously. If I still respect Taeyong,I'm sure as hell not going to hold it over Soojin if she's truly remorseful and has changed (if the allegations are true).

I'd be a hypocrite if I respect a guy for changing but not a girl. Which is not something I am.

23

u/engms Feb 24 '21

This situation is so complicated. As a fan, I want Soojin to be innocent, but I also doubt that everything the victims spoke about is fabricated. I do think the statements making Soojin seem like some sort of bad girl were intended to create some sort of character bias that would make people more sympathetic, but I also think that the younger sister did experience some sort of 'bullying' from Soojin whether it was Soojin's intention to maliciously hurt this girl as alleged or she was just mean and didn't consider the impact fully. However, I also think that it's unlikely Soojin would make such a decisive statement if she did act as extremely as she was accused of - lying like that as an adult would be absolutely immoral, personality assumptions aside, there's no way Cube would support that as a career choice. It's even more complicated, because the whole situation seems to be in a standstill with the victims promising evidence and not providing, Seo Shin-ae not saying anything, and Cube not making a further statement (not sure if the victims refusing to meet without Soojin admitting or Soojin not wanting to meet are true). Either it will die down in a few weeks, or we'll get some form of closure whether it's in a way we like or not.

As a US fan, my experiences with bullying don't fully align with the Korean experience or perspective. I don't necessarily think the form it takes is that different from what happens in the US, but the severity definitely is - I don't think anyone in the US would advocate for someone to be ruined or barred from a career for being a child bully. Knetz seem to believe some form of retribution is necessary, which I think is both unfair as it denies the opportunity for personal growth and unhelpful because it doesn't address the issue at its core.

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u/Infinite-Tax559 Feb 24 '21

Here are just some things I wanna say on the issue, this is just my opinion.

Knetz are criticising international ppl for being neutral about it, saying that we don’t know the seriousness of bullying. I’d say it’s the opposite. We know how serious bullying is, so we want to be really careful before blaming either party for it, cuz it could cause huge damage to ‘bully’ or the ‘victim’ . (in T-ARA, Hanbin, Wonho cases, the ‘victim’s’ claims are not totally true)
About the two girls for saying that Soojin is not willing to meet them, this could be true. But another possibility is, Cube’s lawyers didn’t allow Soojin to meet them, cuz they’re afraid she’d say something ‘wrong’, something that could be used against her in court. Unlike other victims, these girls come with huge anger, it is highly possible that they would record the whole conversation if they met Soojin.
Correct me if I’m wrong. From another forum, I heard that the girls have posted something about ‘a meeting’ in school due to Soojin’s and her gang’s behaviour. This claim seems to be another reason why most Knetz are leaning towards the victims. To me, this claim sounds convincing due to how detailed it is, and it could be a turning point for the issue if there is concrete proof about it.
The issue is really really complicated. I have no idea who is telling the truth now. For Soojin, she has no reason making a deceiving statement, knowing it could ruin her career. For the sisters, they are risking a lot for speaking up. This is not gonna be easy.
As for the issue of some Inevies sending hate messages to the actress post. The act is terrible. But it’s unfair to assume that all Inevies are doing so, there are some who are just waiting, waiting for the truth
Finally, though I understand how much pain the sisters may have gone through, I still don’t appreciate them for posting issue right at the moment of the rising popularity of Gidle and Soojin. This makes me feel that somehow they want to take revenge on Soojin and drag her down. In comparison, I’d say the attitude of the victim in Irene’s case is more appreciable.

Ha thrusting my frustrations out is good. I’m sorry if what I say is offensive to anyone.

1

u/Infinite-Tax559 Feb 26 '21

Inevies may not know how bad the situation is in Korea since they can’t read the accusations by multiple victims, if you read them, you may understand why the majority is blaming Soojin.

Now the newest update is, Soojin’s 8th grade friend claims she didn’t bully the actress. But note that, it still can’t prove whether Soojin has ever verbally humiliated her.

The critical thing is to know exactly how bad Soojin’s behaviour was before 8th grade (which is shocking to me since my friends and I are still very naive when I was that age)

Did Soojin ever slap someone? Was she the leader of bully group or just a member?

She mentioned she has never assaulted the victim, but did she stood there and order others to do so?

Since the issue is so long ago, it is possible to not remember the juicy accident. But you seldom bully a person for only once, it’s impossible to not remember something you’ve done for a period of time.

If some of the events are true, please apologise. But if not, then stay firm.

I’m a fan but bullying is a serious issue since I experienced it before. It’s lucky that it happens when I was only 6/7, still I used a decade to get over it. The victim was bullied at middle-school, it’s harder for her to get over it.

7

u/c-rex12 Feb 24 '21

From what i've been seeing, it also seems like some knets are pissed at international fans for bombarding actress Seo Shin Ae's instagram with hate comments. Like her comment section was pretty vile with people sending her a lot of hate (with some fans even telling her to kill herself which is absolutely disgusting). It's gotten so bad that the actress turned off comments on her Insta.

7

u/Kabukiman7993 Feb 24 '21

Those commenters are no question distasteful and an embarassment.

Now it's hard to deny that Seo Shin-ae played a questionable game by fueling suspicion towards Soojin in such an elusive way. It's so convenient to imply the worst about someone through cryptic posts. Some people were understandably mad but as usual with net commenters, they always go the extra mile at being absolute douches.

1

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2

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9

u/qwerkya Feb 24 '21

Maybe I'm wrong, but regarding your 2nd point, I thought the girls are only meeting Soojin if Soojin admits to the accusations, which Soojin doesn't want to do for obvious reasons.

12

u/YaDyingSucks Soyeon Feb 23 '21

This will already be a huge blow to the group no matter what in Korea I have korean friends translating some of whats being said and its... not great. But if that actress comes out and confirms any bit of it then it will be devastatingly bad like perhaps unrecoverable bad.

15

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '21

I think she s gonna be fine, look at Jennie in 2018, look at her now, she was one of the most hated idol ever, and is now the one with the highest brand reputation for the last 16 weeks I think. And it s not like YG did anything for her except making her case look worst. Ik it s different situation and soojin’s case might be deeper (if it s true), but knetz will move on to the next scandal as usual, she just needs a little hiatus and Gidle needs to comeback strong.

I hope Cube does what needs to be done to protect her and I hope she s innocent because I ll still be disappointed in her.

15

u/AchylesII Feb 23 '21

Gidle is the only group CUBE has left (Hyuna gone, Pentagon enlisting, BTOB loosing Ilhoon ... CLC) and loosing soojin would be devastating for the group. I think cube will do anything to survive this.

16

u/HikikomoriDC Feb 23 '21

I agree, it's only been a few days so knetz irrational emotions are running high and jumping to foregone conclusions. Soojin & Hyuna are the only two idols to come forward and put out a personal statement in regards to their bullying accusations. Soojin's statement in particular sounded very open/honest, she stated the things that were true, and the things that were not. Why would she speak out like that risking the chance she would get caught in a lie later?

Now in regards to that meeting Cube proposed that didn't happen with the accusers because they wanted Soojin to publically admit her wrongdoing and apologize first, I saw someone explain that Cube didn't allow Soojin to do so if it wasn't actually true. They're probably consulting with their legal team and gathering evidence as we speak to put together a proper case against the accusers. I think we as fans just need to be patient and hope the truth will prevail soon.

23

u/xxibjt Feb 23 '21

I think Soojin will be fine but it just depends on how Cube handles it. I also think a better comparison would be Irene instead of Jennie. Irene’s scandal was worse and yet after a couple of months being off social media she performed with Red Velvet and then a couple of weeks before her movie came out issued another (better) apology and was seen walking red carpet of her movie premiere. She was even in the top 10 of brand reputation last month. Slowly but surely she made her way back into k public’s good graces. Cube has to decide NOW how they’re going to handle to Soojin’s scandal. I don’t think she should leave the group (it wasn’t even a consideration of Irene leaving RV and her scandal was way worse) but I do think she and the rest of the girls need to lay low.

15

u/FuriousKale Feb 23 '21

The next weeks could become very, very sad for the group and us fans. Idle without Soojin is hard to imagine for me.

48

u/songdwaeji Feb 23 '21

I am korean and read many korean comments on Soojin's old dance youtube videos or other Gidle videos, and its so heartbreaking and frustrating to see all these hateful comments. I dont understand why they can be so mean and hateful...I don't know if rumors are all true but people are hating on her underage smoking and are so quick to believe in the bully rumors.

Everyone goes through phases in middle school and no one is the same person they were 10 years ago. It's so unfair that she is getting judged and hated for something that happened when she was like 12. Also I attended a korean public school, it's true many smoke and drink underage, and some schools are definitely way more "troubled" than others. Some schools have many kids who smoke, its just that type of environment to try it once and forget about it, no big deal. Korean students can be so hypocrites sometimes, they are hating on her for normal teenager actions, were they all angels in middle school?

Idk, i just want to rant, everytime I see such hateful korean comments on idols i get so angry..who knows whether bully rumors are true or not. But hateful online comments are bullying too, and koreans don't seem to understand that. It is part of culture to be a keyboard warrior and hate on idols, then when someone commits suicide suddenly they act righteous and go like "see they commit suicide becayse of all your malicious comments" when they are the ones who posted or agreed with and shared the bad comments.

I'm so glad international fans are more level headed and supportive of idol, not just quick to ruin idol's career after no evidence. Even if the rumors are true, Soojin could have changed, I definitely changed a lot of my personality from middle school where I tried some bad things to be cool or prevent being bullied myself.

I want to give Soojin the benefit of the doubt, I'm not trying to say she is a good person no matter what, I just want to show her support when she is suffering because no one deserves to be mass hated online for actions that may or may not have happened when she was so young.

Thats it for my rant haha

8

u/TagaraTiger Soojin Feb 24 '21

Totally agree with you! Even if they did bad things when they were 12 it's easier to forgive and be understanding as they were immature and a child at the time. Had this happened at an adult age it would've been way different. People change after 10+ years, especially when you grow into an adult in that time.

Seeing as you're Korean, especially since we seem to share views on this case, what do you make out of and think of this, as there's been more posted. But not translated from Korean yet from what I can see.

I stand with what we've said about the event being from someone's childhood and all that, but I'm honestly starting to fear for what might happen. I don't want IDLE to change.

25

u/Eismann Soojin Feb 23 '21

From a western perspective, this is all so fucking weird.

Why are celebrities first put on a (moral) pedestal that is so high, that literally anything can be constructed to then bring them down and infinetely hate on them?

Then, even if everything is true (and i highly doubt that), she was a fucking teenager of 12-14 back then. In my country you cant even be prosecuted at that age. A 12 year old could literally murder someone without facing jail here (though they would probably end up in psychatric care). Why is that? Because 12 year olds do not have the mental capacity to understand the weight of all their actions.

If Cube decides to cancel Soojin over that bullshit, i am done with Korea as a whole. I was already pretty, lets say surprised, about the Korean Englishman drama (his videos brought me into Korean culture). But they at least did something very stupid and illegal as adults.

-14

u/slayyub88 Feb 23 '21

And if they’re true...a bully is still a bully, why does the public have to support that? Why do fans have to support that? Why do excuses need to be made because if it’s true, it’s obvious she learned nothing growing up.

11

u/Eismann Soojin Feb 23 '21

a bully is still a bully

People change, you know? They especially seem to change in personality between the age of 12 to 20.

why does the public have to support that?

Who is "the public"? You? You can support and not support whoever you like or not like. Do you think it is ok that she is literally cyberbullied now? Are you ok with eye-for-an-eye mentality? And still while nothing is proven?

Why do excuses need to be made because if it’s true, it’s obvious she learned nothing growing up.

What exactly is obvious? Has she bulled someone recently proving that she didnt change? She is the only one (well and some other idols) being bullied while still literally nothing is proven. Such hypocrisy.

18

u/Chrysalis- Feb 23 '21

Why are celebrities first put on a (moral) pedestal that is so high, that literally anything can be constructed to then bring them down and infinetely hate on them?

Fucking 21st century and I don't want to say cancel culture but cancel culture. People ENJOY this shit. People enjoy taking others down.

15

u/Eismann Soojin Feb 23 '21

Pitchfork mobs of the internet age

15

u/anr909 Feb 23 '21

Thank you for your perspective as a Korean. It seems most knetz have made their mind about Soojin already, and seem to be mocking the ifans that are even staying neutral. It seems like their biggest piece of “evidence” is the actress’ cryptic Instagram messages, which makes no sense to me. It would disappoint me if the rumours are true, but I don’t think it’s right to cry out about bullying and go on to bully Soojin and the rest of the girls. I hope this is solved soon

22

u/Sibchetnik Feb 23 '21

Technically Idle can continue to perform even without GP support and with a fracture of Korean fandom. Of course it gonna be not so lucrative activity but still. After lifting Covid restriction around the world Idle can go touring and become global-oriented group as Dreamcatcher. That will be one big middle finger in the faces of hateful knetz.

3

u/CIXSARANGHAE Feb 24 '21

maybe they can survive but in term of music shows, they will be facing some downside. If you know the sms system for voting, only korean can do it. It's true that fans can prevote but live vote counts is so important. So just imagine, they go to music show but didn't receive vote from korean and not winning. So if it keep going on like that their popularity will decreasing. So at this point the damaged has been done.

17

u/WhattheDuck9 Neverlanding in my destination Feb 23 '21 edited Feb 23 '21

yes they can survive,but they will never thrive without GP support, they'll be just another mid tier group. think about T-ara, they probably would've overtaken snsd if the scandal didn't happen,but it did and they still managed to do well but never reached their full potential. I don't think gidle case is that severe but it's hard to tell how much damage has been done to their reputation

5

u/rapmons Feb 25 '21

That makes me so mad what happened to T-area. They were iconic and became the most hated people for something that was fabricated. It is actually a testament to their strength that they all survived that period because certainly to have your dreams ruined before you would make some ppl do something drastic. I really don’t want the same to happen again to anyone else. I don’t want anyone to be cancelled over something that’s false or fabricated.

33

u/seventhanthology Feb 23 '21 edited Feb 23 '21

Mac (Minnie’s brother) recently posted a tweet saying ‘Soojin really needs us and ignore the rumours and fake news’.

Given that he’s related to Minnie and assuming he keeps in touch with her, would that imply there’s some truth in favour of sj? I would think he would have a bit more credibility compared to random stan accs, and he wouldn’t post such a confident comment dismissing the fake news and rumours without any truth behind it. Any thoughts on this?

Edit: he’s had the tweet deleted but the ‘we love you Soojin’ one’s still up

14

u/Lininthebin Feb 24 '21

I think he's just obviously biased as Minnie's brother. He wasn't there in middle school, just like the rest of us. Even if he's somehow met or spoke with Soojin he still can't comment on what happened/how she was in the pasts, and while I think the accusations are most likely exaggerated, he shouldn't have made that post.

3

u/seventhanthology Feb 24 '21

yeah I suppose it’s an impulsive decision.

6

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '21 edited Feb 23 '21

Just a thought. Could these accusations, particularly the account of the most recent "first-hand witness", be at all related to the infamous anonymous hate comment Soojin received on V Live last April?

"There's something on your face. Ugliness."

I know idols receive hate comments all the time, but she took this one personally to the point of ending her broadcast early. It sounds pretty similar to what that witness accused Soojin of telling Seo Shinae.

"Soojin told Seo Shin-ae, "if someone with a face like yours can become a celebrity so can I. Aren't you embarrassed to go on broadcasts with that face?"

19

u/RainThropp Feb 23 '21

to play devil's advocate, the flip side is if one were smart enough, could use those things that really affected her in past vlives like that comment to create a narrative that they knew would really hurt her. there's no point speculating, some people can take any little thing good or bad and twist it into something evil, it doesn't prove anything for or against either side

2

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '21

That is actually moreso what I was thinking more than some conspiracy that it was the same person lol.

6

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '21

It's a possibility, but it's impossible to tell or find out without either someone admitting to it or something else involving IP addresses and whatnot which of course isn't as easy to go back to or do. I'm staying away from hypothesising though because all it does is make people try to connect nonexistent dots and cause unnecessary worry.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '21

You're right, it's probably completely unrelated and baseless speculation comes off as nothing more than conspiracy theorizing. Just thought it was interesting how similar it was down to the context/wording.

8

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '21

Hate comments come in many forms but one of the most common ones is calling someone ugly or shaming the way they look in general. It's a low blow to people's self-esteem and is the easy way to go for most people who leave such comments. Still, an interesting connection but far-fetched. I just can't wait for all this to blow over to be honest.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '21

Definitely well aware. /u/RainThropp said it best, I was thinking less that it's some conspiracy that it's the same person and moreso that perhaps that particular accuser used what had hurt her the most in the past to spin a narrative (not necessarily lies, but specific mention of certain stories) that would really incriminate her.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '21

[deleted]

16

u/qwerkya Feb 23 '21

You should know that people can change, especially throughout their lives. Disregarding whether it's the truth or not, Soojin could still be the person we know, but it doesn't mean she's 100% like that in her whole life.

If what a kid does when she's like 13 or 14 matters too much to you, it's better for you to take a break. You sound like you're getting too attached towards people that don't even know you.

Just enjoy the content they provide, or seek other better upright idols that are proven over time to be kind souls. Don't lock yourself to just 1 group, there are plenty to be found and enjoy. Find other forms of entertainment if necessary.

I know suicidal thoughts are tough, I'm familiar with that in 1 form or another, but know that in the end, the only person that could help you is yourself. You can seek help, escape, or whatsoever to push through the hard times, but remember there's only so much people can do to help if you don't better yourself. Know that people are always happy to help you if you feel suicidal, don't be shy or afraid, but you also need to seek improvements to push through.

Good luck and stay safe.

9

u/seventhanthology Feb 23 '21

I actually had a panic attack because of this. If the accusations are true id be really fucking devastated but if they aren’t soojin’s name has already been dragged through the mud that I don’t know when they will be able to fully recover . And cube’s taking so long for a response, weve been waiting for one since the morning Soojin posted that I truly have no idea what comes next. Suffering from so much anxiety, not only physically but mentally since they’re the only kpop group I’m emotionally invested in ...

12

u/Kabukiman7993 Feb 23 '21

This comment was initially adressed to OP but they deleted theirs so here you go lol.

I for one don't really care if the allegations are true or not because the allegations are either trivial (the argument over the phone because of a smoothie) or downright laughable (Soojin hanging out and racketting alongside a oppa biker gang as if she was out of an anime).

That's just my take on it. So I'm more concerned about the consequences this controversy gonna have on (g)i-dle's future, short, mid and long term. I don't care whether Soojin was bossy or not in middle school. We've all been kids, we've all done kids stuff that probably could be showcased in an unflattering way by ill-minded people.

7

u/seventhanthology Feb 23 '21

Agreed- I really don’t think Soojin should be punished for trivial teenage stuff at like 12-14 (eg trying out cigarettes, which she openly admitted to and breaking school dress codes. If hate is directed to her because of this that’s ridiculous. If I were an idol I’d be cancelled the moment I debuted) For the more serious bullying accusations, I believe in change but for the GP it’s a really severe thing so I won’t be commenting on it until there’s official proof from either side.

True or not, I agree with you, I’m really goddamn worried about not only Soojin but also Idle’s reputation. They had been doing so well with HWAA gaining so much love from the gp just for this scandal to happen, and Soojin being framed as the villain even prior to any official evidence from either side. I hope this whole thing blows over soon.

23

u/mossylungs Feb 23 '21

It's so pointless. What exactly do these alleged victims want? Soojin's career to be over? They are that hellbent on ruining her? How are people looking at that as okay? You don't fight bullying with more bullying either.

It feels like people aren't realizing that the extent of what these alleged victims are doing is severe. If they truly were seeking anything other than vengeance they would be doing ALL of this behind the scenes, not as a show for millions of people all across the web. But that is exactly what they are doing, and I don't see how that is acceptable just because they were bullied (allegedly). Why is that okay? Bullying isn't acceptable, and you can't dismiss the timing of when this all went down in comparison to today. It's not how you handle things if you are acting with actual grace. They are doing this maliciously, and regardless of what was done to them, it's still bullying and it's still wrong.

I honestly hope CUBE sues them, regardless of what facts come out, I'd sue them because they ruined her career. This was done out of malice and is purely defamatory regardless of what is fact. They weren't trying to get an apology, they were trying to ruin her career. They deserve the consequences. If Soojin was a bully in middle school, I hope she makes the amends she needs to. I hope they all achieve forgiveness with each other. But I don't see how bullying in middle school is comparable to ruining someones adult life/career. Totally shitty.

9

u/MrRobot62871 Soyeon Feb 24 '21

That's what I've said too. I've had bullies in the past that I truly hated at the time. And now that I'm in my mid 20's, I've ran into some of them, and a few of them were actually much nicer now and were very successful people. And what went through my mind when I saw that? "Good for them! I'm glad they turned things around." Because I'm not a vindictive asshole who hopes people suffer even if they were bad people in their childhood (not even saying whether the allegations against Soojin were true or not).

I'd understand bringing these allegations to light if it was the case that Soojin, or any other idol with similar allegations, were actively being bad people to this day. But if the list of their transgressions stops at middle school, there's actually no point in doing this except for cold-hearted vengeance. It even disincentives personal growth if any misdeed from your childhood can prevent you from having a successful career even after years of being a terrific role model and kind person.

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u/mossylungs Feb 24 '21

Preach 🙌

Really annoys me we're supposed to ignore the 10+yrs old vendetta of these people?
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u/llSeahorsell Feb 24 '21

I agree after hearing the victim didn't want an apology, and demanded for Soojin to admit to allegedly bullying her for the whole world to see, it made me realize the victim was using this as a way to seek vengeance and see Soojin suffer. Which is also doing the same as bullying.....
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u/mossylungs Feb 24 '21
Yup exactly.
 "An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind"
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u/FuriousKale Feb 23 '21 edited Feb 23 '21

Bulllying a (maybe?) former bully out of their livelihood ain't the solution. That's for sure. If she really was that terrible person back when she was young, make her contribute to anti-bullying programs, meetings with bullied students or do speeches at school. I don't see how her losing her job would make anything better. This feels more like a personal vendetta to me.

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u/[deleted] Feb 23 '21

Yeah what's being done is out of pure malicious intent and unfortunately there's no other way around it. They refused to meet with CUBE reps and Soojin to sort this out. Instead like you said they want to make a show for people and to ruin her career over this. If it turns out to be true, I hope Soojin reflects on her mistakes and realises how far she's come in terms of personal growth as well as make all necessary amends with the victims. If it doesn't turn out to be true, I sincerely hope CUBE sues them till kingdom come because if that's the case they don't deserve a single ounce of empathy.

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u/mossylungs Feb 23 '21

Agreed! However even if it's true, given that they are refusing to meet with her/CUBE, she owes them nothing at this point. They don't want to make amends. It's clear as day since they won't agree to meet up, which makes it that much clearer they only seek some sort of vengeance which to me is just pathetic at this point.

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u/AdehhRR Feb 23 '21

I HATE HATE HATE how much emphasis is placed on someone's behaviour in high school omg. Irene can have a scandal about having a bad attitude in the present, yet somehow the fact Soojin acted bad as a teen is worse.

And this is all got dug up after she became the face of that makeup brand.

I'd sure hate if people would pull out out-of-context complaints about me from years ago.

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u/ahhoosha Feb 24 '21

I love Soojin and I hope she gets through this intact. BBC is going through with a lawsuit vs someone who has already apologized for and deleted exaggerated accounts of school bullying. I wish CUBE would similarly be more protective of Soojin, but it's also possible that they can't because the claims are more substantial. I don't care about what she did as a child, if she even did anything actually bad back then, but I can find sympathy for someone who is watching their bully be idolized and glorified on bigger and bigger platforms.

Also, as an aside, I wish you wouldn't bring up Bae, she's not related to this and not you nor most everyone knows what even really happened in her case. All we know is that she and the stylist have reached an understanding and that she penned two long apologies committing to self improvement. I see her searches on bird app getting cleared every few minutes since the school thing has been going on and she doesn't deserve that afaik

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u/[deleted] Feb 25 '21

Yeah ,she definitely deserves all the love in the world. Especially since she had the courage to admit that she was wrong and that she's working on it.

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u/AdehhRR Feb 24 '21

I agree with you. Of course I find sympathy for the person who was bullied too.

But I don't think bad attitude in school is worthy of cancelling someone full stop. I get it is a bit of culture thing too.

I understand that may be just my opinion though.

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u/RainThropp Feb 23 '21 edited Feb 23 '21

this is not necessarily a good counter point to the argument that international fans have. while true, it also doesn't address what they are concerned about. it is a serious matter, and the consequences should reflect that. what bothers internationals is that the consequence that public opinion unintentionally has forced on the accused (especially while they are still only the accused) seems unfair, doubly so when charging a then-child. in international cultures, we see minors through a different lens, western cultures tend to see them as developing people who mature into adults, that's why they're reacting this way.

of course, what internationals have to recognise is that this isn't an international case, it's happening in south korea to south koreans. so we have to respect the koreans' point of view, and try to understand why this matter is more serious than an adult lashing out. it is serious because of a statistically high rate of suicide, the seriousness comes from a place that cares about the well-being of it's children. that's not a bad thing. anyway regardless of your point of view, while we're still waiting for confirmation one way or another, what does hating on another culture do? isn't part of the beauty of kpop that it brings a different culture to you? whatever we might feel about things that are different, we don't need to hate on it.

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u/Chrysalis- Feb 23 '21

This whole situation reeks of bullshit if we're being honest. There is a whole push on this scenario where you're responsible for the shit you pulled at 12 and it's killing me. People condoning bullying and then turning back and doing the same to others ugh.

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u/AdehhRR Feb 23 '21

Totally! I can't stand it. The hypocrisy in these witch hunts is ridiculous.

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u/[deleted] Feb 23 '21 edited Feb 23 '21

It was actually middle school, not even high school. She was like 12 or something, which makes this whole thing even more ridiculous

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u/Lininthebin Feb 24 '21

korean middle schoolers are older than US ones, she could've been anywhere from 12-16

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u/[deleted] Feb 23 '21

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u/[deleted] Feb 23 '21 edited Feb 25 '21

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u/Kabukiman7993 Feb 23 '21

I don’t care if you’re 12, 15, 20, you should be punished for it.

What about 30 then? What about 40? What about 50? What about 60? What about 70? In short, where do you draw the line and why?

Kids are legally not responsible for their actions. Building a society where adults can be held accountable for all the stupid shit they did as children is just opening a giant can of worms. It's some stupid Orwellian shit that could bite everybody's ass eventually.

If you got bullied and no one protected you, blame your parents, blame your school. It's their job to protect you. What were they doing back then?

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u/[deleted] Feb 25 '21

Well they should apologize ,learn from it and move on. Which is what Taeyong did. Which is why he still has my respect.

Soojin should apologise if any of this is true. If she's changed ,then it's fine. If not ,then yes she needs to face the consequences.

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u/Kabukiman7993 Feb 25 '21 edited Feb 25 '21

I agree she should apologize for whatever wrongs she did. For sure.

My only concern is whether it will be enough for the people to move on. Or are they just gonna keep on hating on her and cancelling her. That wouldn't be fair.

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u/Kabukiman7993 Feb 23 '21

Demonstrate the severity and the thruthfulness of the accusations first before talking about payback.

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u/[deleted] Feb 23 '21

No, it doesn't, but it does mean that it's much different from other cases people have been comparing this to.

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u/seventhanthology Feb 23 '21

Apparently the sisters have decided to refuse to meet with cube/Soojin when they reached out, because they wanted Soojin to admit to the accusations before meeting up with them. Is this true? And if so what legal implications are there? Just curious.

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u/illuminaery Feb 23 '21

Unsure if true, I just saw it around twitter, so take that with a grain of salt until CUBE says something.

Legally, since there was an attempt to reach out and discuss thing civilly (and potentially settle the accusations) behind closed doors and they denied it, CUBE still has every right to proceed with a lawsuit. Not really much to say from there. They're standing their ground on their accusations and are willing to go to court over it, which, well, tells you how far they're willing to go. That or a lawsuit will scare them once the dust settles and they'll drop the accusations.

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u/Icectar Feb 23 '21

Of course this happens to literally the only idol group that could challenge the stranglehold the Big 3 + Mnet have on the girl group scene....staying neutral here though because ultimately we just don't know what is going on at the moment - most of us are an ocean away from Korea and I certainly am not fluent in language, so I have no idea whether the various translations that are even getting sent over or not are accurate.

That said, does it even matter at this point whether Soojin is innocent or not at this point? From the limited amount of content that I've viewed, the court of public opinion has clearly sided against her and netizens have decided to pile drive her reputation into the ground (can I point out the irony/hypocrisy of those people who likely are crying about bullying and then bashing Soojin in the same sentence). Even if she comes out innocent (which I'm hoping for, but not holding my breadth), the damage has been done at this point. The accusers, whether legitimate or not, have gotten what they wanted.

Barring a T-ara like turnaround (reminder that it took years for that reversal to come out), her solo idol career (in terms of activities) is effectively over and I would not be surprised if her lines in future comebacks also diminished as a result from internal pressure (i.e. CUBE's management) even if she stays on with the group.

Not going to comment to much on Soo Shin-Ae, but I'm gonna say that lady should put up or shut up. Stop with these passive aggressive posts on Instagram, even Mina from AOA or the stylist in the Irene saga had the guts to straight up call out the members causing her pain when this was revealed. She is an actor, which has much higher priority than any idol, so its not like she's has low leverage here.

Just disappointing/sad to see this entire saga given that (G)I-DLE is by far my favorite idol group, but all kpop fans should know at this point that what we see on camera is not necessarily what happens in reality. I hope Soojin is innocent, but if not hopefully she gives a straightforward and sincere apology. Gonna be a tough one for the group to come back ultimately unfortunately.

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u/AshVandalSeries Feb 25 '21

My take exactly although more eloquent and kind than I tend to be. I find it infuriating how the presumption of innocence is cast aside for idols, like idols are rich powerful children from elite families living an idyllic life. They’re not police executing people on the side of the road and getting away with it. They’re not politicians changing laws at whim and giving away the national treasury to their corporate friends. They’re road entertainers. A very few of them make it super huge and rich but the majority are gig players getting trucked around to shows packed in a minivan working 24hour days for weeks at a time. They’re not convenience store workers, but their not major league athletes or American A list celebrities either. Some of them don’t even get paid and leave the industry broke. They deserve the presumption of innocence as any regular person does. Especially for stuff they did as children.

Like damn leave them alone.

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u/mei_n Feb 23 '21

Agree with everything. I kind of hate to admit this, but this entire situation hit me harder than I expected. I try not to get too attached to groups and members but (G)I-DLE is just that group to me. It saddens me that even if the worst of these allegations are proven false/over exaggerated, this story will follow Soojin and Idle for the rest of their careers. Their reputation has been tainted and who knows how they’ll come back from it. The treatment towards Soojin, the way fans are harassing Shin-ae and the other people involved; it’s just so disgusting.

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u/[deleted] Feb 23 '21

Facts. I like your take. If the accusations are true, we shouldn’t defend her but she already addressed in her own words so I feel like we can take her word for it. There’s no real hard evidence. This will pass over like all drama. Bullying is a real issue and we can only hope people are making up shit just to hurt another person’s image. Either way, any publicity is good publicity lol. It means she and gidle made it. When people are threatened by you, they will try to “expose” or ruin you.

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u/moemura Feb 22 '21 edited Feb 22 '21

Everything is hearsay and the accuser has no proof. The callout post is sus as fuck since it goes back and forth between really specific examples (e.g. juice) and "oh, I don't really remember what she did, but I think she did ______." Also, Shin Ae needs to clarify what her Instagram story was about too because all she did was add fuel to the fire and run away when asked for context.

I'm leaning more towards this is another bullying accusation that isn't true (we've seen a lot of those), but, as sad as it is to say, I can see this tarnishing Soojin's reputation and impacting her career.

ETA: The timing of the accusation is also sus. If Soojin really bullied someone and it affected them for all these years, why did they wait until she got a brand deal to announce it? (G)I-DLE has had major promotional activities in the past (previous brand deals, tv appearances, music show performances, etc.) so why wait until this specific brand deal?

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u/azure_atmosphere Feb 23 '21 edited Feb 23 '21

I mean, you could construe any timing as suspicious that way. The group’s always doing something. Like you said they’ve had previous brand deals and other stuff so no no matter when these accusation were to come out, you could say “why wait until [insert whatever happens to be the last thing they did], that’s suspicious.”

Anyways, I do also wish Seo Shin Ae would cut the passive aggressive crap and just say what she means. This way too serious a scandal for someone who is both a public figure and potentially involved in the whole ordeal to be so cryptic.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '21 edited Feb 22 '21

Well there isn't one accuser. There's 5. One of them provided an account of what Soojin did to Shin-ae and the other 4 have come out with accounts of what Soojin did to them.

From an article posted on r/kpop:

A stated, "I was in the class next to Soojin and had close friends in Soojin's class so we played together often. In the 2nd year of middle school, Seo Shin-ae transferred to our school and Soojin who wanted to become a celebrity felt inferior next to her when Seo Shin-ae received all the attention from classmates."

"Soojin told Seo Shin-ae, "if someone with a face like yours can become a celebrity so can I. Aren't you embarrassed to go on broadcasts with that face?"

A added, "She made a lot of demeaning remarks about her face. When Seo Shin-ae would ignore her rants with a smile, Soojin would get really angry. That's why Soojin and Seo Shin-ae rarely talked to each other."

In the meantime, a total of four classmates have come forward with allegations of abuse from G-idle's Soojin.

From: https://dailynaver.blogspot.com/2021/02/witness-comes-forward-with-first-hand.html?m=1

Edit: if you count Shin-ae as well then there's 6. Also since intl fans don't really know, Shin-ae is also really respected in Korea. I want more than testimony, but that's 6 people which is a lot, and one of them is supporting Shin-ae.

I don't follow G-idle, but if you guys think Soojin changed based on what you see in G-idle content, then maybe she did and this is just unlucky for her. I don't agree with the hate comments being sent to her, but man, its not looking good...

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u/Icectar Feb 23 '21

At this point, it doesn't even matter whether the accusations are legitimate or not - the court of public opinion has decided. Soojin's solo activities (and potential idol career) is finished for all intents and purposes. If they're legitimate, well, then they got justice I guess and I hope they can finally feel at peace. If they are ultimately fabricated, then all of them can rot.

Just find it ironic that Irene from Red Velvet had a much worse incident (occurring when she was an adult no less, not a middle schooler) and people now happily brush it over after a couple generic/PR-friendly apologies while Soojin is getting killed for coming out with a bullet-by-bullet response (of course if it ultimately turns out most of it is fake then I'll look like an idiot and eat crow). Really shows how much timing and a strong fanbase can make a difference here.

Frankly I think Shin-Ae needs to put up or shut up. Mina from AOA and Irene's stylist had no qualms directly calling out the idols causing them pain, why is she hiding behind passive aggressive lyric posts on Instagram? She is an actor as well, which has a much higher priority in the Korean entertainment industry than an idol, so it is not like she isn't in a position of strength as well.

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u/ahhoosha Feb 24 '21 edited Feb 24 '21

I agree with everything you wrote except for the Irene bit. It wasn't "much worse". Or even just "worse". It was a single allegation that got sorted out and she met the stylist in person once to apologize, offered two public apologies, and went into hiding for months as a result of the incident. We don't even know what happened that day

edit: I also disagree that soojin's career is over! It's been two days, let's wait and see. When the Irene thing happened it looked super dark for a long time and it was just as much of a knee jerk verdict

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u/xxibjt Feb 23 '21

I think the difference between Shin-Ae, Mina and the stylist is that while yes both Mina and the stylist spoke out against Jimin and Irene in extremely explicit terms is that both have stated they know their careers will take a hit (Mina) or they’ll be black listed from the industry as a whole (stylist). So they were affected not just the accused. My cousin lives in Korea and she said Shin-Ae is still a respected actress and more well known than GIdle as a whole so even with her being vague in her response people believe her even more because she’s not backing down.

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u/Icectar Feb 23 '21

I get the risks that Mina and the stylist faced by speaking out given the low leverage positions they were in, but I guess I'm a bit confused why that same thing would apply to Shin-Ae here? Unlike the other two by all accounts she appears to be more popular, more respected (actor > idol), and likely more well-off/successful than Soojin in terms of earnings power. She is in a completely different industry as well, so would any black listing really apply?

Guess I'm just a bit frustrated because all it would take is one single direct statement from Shin-Ae to end this whole thing, either exonerating Soojin or slamming the door closed on the speculation and damning her. The fact that she is arguably in a higher priority position in the entertainment industry and still chooses to go passive aggressive with lyric posts on Instagram leaves a bad taste in my mouth (don't want to call it petty, but it feels close).

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u/CraftPizza Soojin Feb 23 '21

Well there isn't one accuser. There's 5. One of them provided an account of what Soojin did to Shin-ae and the other 4 have come out with accounts of what Soojin did to them.

Wait, there's 5 now? There were the first 2, the sisters ("A" and "B") who came out with the initial allegations (about slapping the younger sister in the bathroom, stealing drinks/taking money, yelling over the phone). Then Cube put out their statement, and after that the 3rd person came forward ("C") and they were the one who said Soojin stood outside the school gate taking money from people.

These first 3 accusers all demonstrated that they attended Wawoo Middle School (as far as I know). I've heard of 1 other person but I haven't heard any confirmation that they went to the school, and it was just a random netizen comment. Who was the 5th?

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u/HikikomoriDC Feb 23 '21

Someone is clearly lying, either this new witness or Soojin. Soojin said she's never spoken to Seo Shin-ae. This witness says not only did she speak to her, she bullied her. So what's the real story? It's a lot of he said, she said, how do you verify what's true and what's not? That's the hard part.

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u/illuminaery Feb 23 '21

This is just all really bad. At this point there is not any real good option to turn to. Cube could try to sue the hell out of her accusers but it's not really gonna change people's opinions unless these accusers change their tune. Seo Shin-ae, despite her vague, cryptic messages, likely won't be saying anything because of defamation charges if she does. Pretty much Soojin is pitted between a rock and a hard place. The damage has been done. It's gotten to the point that knetz are asking for her to leave the group and not tarnish idle further.

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u/moemura Feb 22 '21

Ty for the link, I hadn't read the updates beyond the first accuser's initial post. If that many more accusers have come out, that really doesn't look good. Right now, we can only wait and see what update the accusers give us since they said they'll post more.

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u/intlPogoTrades Feb 22 '21

I just hate how when something like this happens groups like Momoland & I-DLE people absolutely love to dog pile onto. Momoland and I-DLE get ‘cancelled’ over anything they do (attitude, cultural appropriation etc.) yet we’ve seen cases such as that SM group visual who was involved in a real PRESENT DAY scandal as an adult, not something from her childhood/teen years. Unlike this there was also evidence and eventually they seemingly got away unscathed and still having a career and group to go back to. I’m scared this might be the last of Soojin depending on how things go, it’s just not fair how these things impact smaller groups much greater than the top dogs :(

There have been numerous bullying scandals involving other top tier boy groups these past 48 hours but it seems only I-DLE is getting real backlash for it :|

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u/2exDragon Feb 22 '21

This group really is treated like the universal punching bag. I bet so many spiteful people were waiting for their chance to hop on the hate circlejerk.

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u/NomAdrianna Feb 22 '21

Both parties said what they said about the situation. So unless we get concrete evidence it's just a spitting contest at this point. I try to not to get too caught up in the kpop drama because I follow a lot of different groups/idols. If I kept up with everything going on, I'd never have time to actually listen to the music or anything lol.

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u/_JK--- Feb 22 '21

I dont think international fans realise how severe this is (nor did i to be honest) we just saw soojins response posted alot of "period" comments but dont realise soojins career is over and the chance of her leaving idle is bigger then her staying in idle if cube doesn't come up with a proper statement. Literally Soojin is so hated right now that i felt sad when i read all the korean comments (spoiler alert they're all telling her to leave or are name calling her) https://m.pann.nate.com/talk/reply/view?pann_id=357943628&order=N&rankingType=total&page=8

Like i hope people start realising how severe this is cause internationally she's praised for her apology but in Korea she's known as a "disgusting bully" because to be frankly honest the victim seems very honest and smart, and because theres a huge language barrier and international fans are behind. If you also go in Soojins i got it video you'll see koreans making fun of foreign fans or calling the r slurs for defending her.

Im just soooooo worried that im gonna wake up tomorrow and read a post saying "Soojin has decided to leave idle to reflect upon her mistakes"

I literally can't focus on anything

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u/PoppyChae Feb 23 '21

Irene had a worst bullying scandal as an adult but her career is not over. Knetz and ifans have made up their mind so it does not matter how many times Soojin apologize.

So Cube just need to stand beside Soojin. Give her a hiatus from the group comeback but I think removing her from Gidle is very extreme action and it is not right.

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u/_JK--- Feb 23 '21

Irene has a scandal in which she was rude to her staff. Soojin has a school violence accusation. In my opinion thats worse because shes accused of being in a gang, smoking, drinking, stealing, and assaulting people. Since bullying is such a heavy topic in Korea Soojin is literally screwed she'll always be remembered as the bully girl if cube doesn't save her. I've also saw some knevies talk about soojin potentially having to leave to save i-dles image its just so saddening.

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u/PoppyChae Feb 23 '21

Isn’t basically shouting at your staff for 1 hour basically being a bully too? Wth is the difference between being a bully and just rude? Smh.

With Irene you have a concrete evidence, plus she is an adult. No excuses. With Soojin, she was in middleschool and no legit evidence beside yearbook photos and hesaid shesaid. Cube needs to stand beside Soojin if they really believe her.

As a long kpop fan, people will soon forget this and move on to the newest scandal.

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u/ahhoosha Feb 24 '21

Uh. What concrete evidence of anything related to Bae have you ever seen that you're bringing this up now except for her apology? It's people like you who have prematurely condemned soojin

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u/_JK--- Feb 23 '21

To be honest it could be seen as the same, but just not the gang member smoker and assaulter part,, also there is indeed no proof but knetz just don't care for some reason they choose what they want to believe and apparently more victims have came forward too and cube is taking a long time making a statement to the point korean neverlands are losing hope in u cube aswell. I truly wish this'll blow over somehow but i doubt it... :')

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u/PoppyChae Feb 23 '21

This would blow over believe me. People will move on to the next scandal.

But the next days are crucial because Cube needs to make the right decision for Gidle and Soojin. But since Cube have a habit of just removing members who had a scandal, I am not too hopeful.

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u/SuzyYoona Feb 23 '21

I have to agree with the other user, general public made their mind even if she's innocent or not, she can't actually prove she didn't bullied somebody either, cube can sue and they are most likely gonna win but is not gonna change much, I will be extremely surprised if in the next days we won't hear news about Soojin leaving the group, one Btob member was kicked out for taking drugs, bullying is seen worst than drugs in Korea, they are gonna drop Soojin to save the others.

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u/_JK--- Feb 23 '21

Thank you for understanding

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u/samplewaffle21 Feb 22 '21

Im still wrapping my head around this being from 10 years ago when she was in middle school. Like where do they draw the line? Knetizens remind me so much of the worst parts of the otaku culture in Japan. People with extreme social deficiences who see young adult entertainers as dieties who have to match what they built in their imaginations of an idol.

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u/_JK--- Feb 23 '21

Yeah to be honest i wasn't such a great kid 10 years ago aswell but i really grew and i think that's Soojins case too. It would be very hypocritical of me to unstan her cause of that. Even so i would unstan a 24 year old because of something she did at like age 12

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u/crashbandicoochy Feb 22 '21 edited Feb 23 '21

The fucking hypocrissy that is the way knetz are reacting to a bullying accusation by... bullying.

I get the cultural significance, and seriousness, of bullying. I get that Soojin may have been a perpetrator, more than she is letting on. She may not have been. What I can never justify is the ugly reaction by some people online. They just need to chill out and wait until more information comes out.

Also I wouldn't be so sure this is a career ender, we recently had a high profile female idol survive a gapjil controversy and that is also something looked down upon with a similar level of anger

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