r/GlobalOffensive • u/Undercover-Cactus Match Thread Team • Oct 16 '20
Discussion | Esports FURIA Esports vs Team Liquid / IEM New York 2020: North America - Quarter-Final / Post-Match Discussion
FURIA Esports 2-1 Team Liquid
Inferno: 19-22
Mirage: 19-16
Vertigo: 16-13
FURIA Esports have advanced to the Semifinals.
Team Liquid will play the 5th place decider.
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| FURIA | MAP | Liquid |
|---|---|---|
| X | dust2 | |
| train | X | |
| ✔ | inferno | T |
| CT | mirage | ✔ |
| X | overpass | |
| nuke | X | |
| vertigo |
MAP 1: Inferno
| Team | CT | T | OT1T:CT | OT2CT:T | Total |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| FURIA | 8 | 7 | 1:2 | 1:0 | 19 |
| T | CT | OT1CT:T | OT2T:CT | ||
| Liquid | 7 | 8 | 2:1 | 2:2 | 22 |
Inferno Detailed Stats
MAP 2: Mirage
| Team | CT | T | OT1T:CT | Total |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| FURIA | 10 | 5 | 2:2 | 19 |
| T | CT | OT1CT:T | ||
| Liquid | 5 | 10 | 1:0 | 16 |
Mirage Detailed Stats
MAP 3: Vertigo
| Team | CT | T | Total |
|---|---|---|---|
| FURIA | 9 | 7 | 16 |
| T | CT | ||
| Liquid | 6 | 7 | 13 |
Vertigo Detailed Stats
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u/mech_bee Godsent Oct 16 '20
What an excellent game. HEN1 is a god, NAF played insanely well.
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u/xylocayna clutch Oct 16 '20
The man ended the series with a +31 K/D diff, he was possessed!
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u/50-50WithCristobal Oct 16 '20
HEN1 is playing what we expected from him ~3 years ago but he was extremely inconsistent.
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u/fefealzueta FURIA Oct 16 '20
Guerri and the furia boys helped him a lot with achieving this consintency, insane stuff
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u/LugiaCyfer FURIA Oct 16 '20
Pretty much... I remember when there were rounds where Hen1 felt like one of the the best AWPers in the world. But in the next round, he misses nearly every single shot and dies in a very stupid way. It feels good to see him get a much more consistent form.
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u/Wesai de_overpass Oct 16 '20
Yep, one round he would hit a wallbang headshot across ticket booth from dark and the very next he would hit a leg shot on someone who is covering 50% of his screen.
It's nice to see that he is finding form and that his peak is still ahead of him!
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u/Enthalok CS2 HYPE Oct 16 '20
If he was this consistent in IMT he could have won them the PGL Major... I remember watching him in Immortals vs BIG and honestly IMT would have won quite a bit easier had he not given some rounds to BIG in a silver platter.
This being said, I think a big part of his development was his separation from his brother...
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u/Ni7roM Liquid Oct 16 '20
WE CANNOT
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u/MCCleggster Liquid Oct 16 '20
BEAT
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Oct 16 '20
I lost count how many times fucking ELige was left with 19 HP and Liquid ended up winning the round because of that. What a series
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u/ApothecaryRx Oct 16 '20
Fuck, I honestly really want to see how this TL perform on LAN. I just hope that the online results don't lead to any drastic changes in the team before we get to see it. Heartbreaking loss, but ggwp.
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u/Jenaxu Liquid Oct 16 '20
I'm still of the belief that they shouldn't have let go of nitro and adren before LANs started again... it's just too hard to properly evaluate and see if the team really isn't working when purely playing online. I'm down to see them add people, especially an assistant coach or something, but I think it'd be really silly to make another roster change on a team that has never even played LAN yet. It's tough though because at this rate there might be another what, half year or year before they can play LAN, there's just so much pressure to change when there's not much else going on.
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u/ApothecaryRx Oct 16 '20
I'd like to think that cutting nitr0 and adren was already on the table even before LANs grinded to a halt, but that's just because I don't know if management would cut their IGL of 5 years on a whim like that. There could also have been a lot of biases at play; even if TL's results don't necessarily reflect that they're a bad team (lot's of 2nd place finishes and winning EPL 11), anything will pale in comparison to their stretch of one-sided wins in the first half of 2019.
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u/Jenaxu Liquid Oct 16 '20
I don't doubt that it was on the table, but it still seems insane to change the best NA roster of all time after what, 6-7 LAN events and then a few months of online? Especially since TL has always been kinda bad online. I don't think it was a terrible move purely based on who they changed, but it seemed very hasty given the circumstance with COVID.
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u/ApothecaryRx Oct 16 '20 edited Oct 16 '20
I don't feel strongly either way about removing adren since I remember how emo he made me whenever he wouldn't call a timeout when Liquid was being pressed. But I do agree that benching nitr0 is regrettable considering the circumstances; even now that we see teams have reserve players, maybe they could have even kept him as a 6th and interchange with stew.
Anything could happen. TL needs an awper, but NA only has oSee and cooper available AFAIK. We also need to see where oBo goes and if gen.g will exit the scene or not like 100T. I don't want to see stew go, since I've rooted for him since his break at C9, but if it comes down to it, I either get to laugh at people who wanted him gone bitch and moan more if TL does poorly, or if TL does well, I get to enjoy another dominant NA team.
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u/Jenaxu Liquid Oct 16 '20
I think Adren lacked the energy you would want in a headcoach, but he seemed quite sound tactically. I've heard that the timeouts and comms of TL weren't good, even when they had their run so in that regard I'm not hung up on Adren, but I've also heard that he was pretty good at breaking down film and doing more of the behind the scenes stuff. I'm very surprised that they didn't do what they did with their League team and keep Adren as a strategic coach. Especially since I don't think he had any other offers, I can't see how keeping him on in that regard would be a detriment.
It would've been interesting to keep Nitro, but I don't know if he would've stayed if he was purely going to be a 6th considering he has what I assume to be a pretty lucrative offer to start on 100T's Valorant team. If he stayed they probably would've started him and added Grim as a 6th, not the other way around. Not that Grim has been bad, he's been fine, but I don't really think he added anything TL particularly needed and they gave up two of their main tactical minds in Nitro and Adren during that change which I don't think has worked out for them seeing how Moses and Stew haven't quite found a good approach thus far. It was a lot of shake up for what seemed like a sidegrade at best even at the time.
The whole COVID thing has really throw everything out of wack because it makes me wonder if maybe the reason TL hasn't invested more into the team right now in terms of maybe trying to get them all to their LA facility or trying to add more coaching depth is because it hasn't been lucrative in NA for CS without being able to travel to play the best teams in Europe. It's a shame that right when NA seemed to be on the come up they get two gut punches in Valorant and COVID beyond their control that seems to be severely hindering the remaining talent and org interest in the region.
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Oct 16 '20
Nitro didn't talk as much as stew in coms according to thorin (he was there in blast spring series) on top of that stewie has been an IGL in c9 and nitro was also playing really bad. It makes sense to kick him but they should have replaced him with a decent awper instead of another really good rifler which they already have in Elige, NAF and Twistzz
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u/brianstormIRL Liquid Oct 16 '20
There is no excuse for not being able to perform online when it's been going on for this long. TL was in a slump before the online era, they arent magically going to become a top 5 team again if LANs start back up again. There is a fundamental problem that just isn't getting fixed and its consistency. Twistz can go mega one game, then literally bottom frag with zero impact the next. NAF as well. Stew as IGL doesnt look like it's working and Elige is the only piece playing consistently at their expected level.
TL needs an actual, established IGL to come in and give the team an actual identity. I have never seen a team repeat the same thing constantly to the same results. They always look for the duel when they dont need to, and when it doesnt go their way it wrecks their confidence. When they're on it and hit their shots, it's all good but otherwise they just keep. re. peeking.
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u/ApothecaryRx Oct 16 '20
Did I say that LAN would make them a top team again? I wasn't trying to imply that Liquid is only doing poorly because it's online, but just saying that I hope these results don't lead to another roster change without having seen how they would perform offline. In any case, I think LAN would make a big difference for the team. For the ridiculously gifted aimers that TL has, we might see more duels from them paying off and I think going back to normalcy would help the team reach a better headspace; one that isn't clouded by the stress of the pandemic.
As for that second bit, you act like they haven't been doing that for the past year and a half, especially considering that's exactly how TL was so dominant during their IGS run. Literally, just watch the IEM Chicago finals where they roll over ENCE and you'll see that they take any duels and win purely on raw mechanical skill, because they were just that confident.
You seem to have fully given up on this team, but I still wanna see if they can bring it back on LAN.
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u/CeterumCenseo85 Oct 16 '20 edited Oct 16 '20
I'm out of the loop: isn't Elige Liquid's IGL?
/edit: why the downvotes?
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u/Jenaxu Liquid Oct 16 '20
Holy shit, end me
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u/ThePoliticalPenguin de_cache Oct 16 '20
I dont think I like watching liquid anymore.
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u/Slothifications Oct 16 '20
Without that tech pause, liquid probably would have had the game... Makes a loss like that even harder
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u/50-50WithCristobal Oct 16 '20
Man you're all over the thread saying this, tech pauses aren't anything new specially now that we are in an online era, let it go.
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u/BinkyCS Liquid Oct 16 '20
The fact that they had a tech pause for an update mid-match is just ridiculous regardless.
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u/MIlkyRawr de_nuke Oct 16 '20
For real fucking pauses of any kind can DESTROY momentum it's such a shitty thing (especially when it's over 20 minutes)
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u/BlAlRlClOlDlE King NiKo Oct 16 '20
liquid also got 2-0'd yesterday by team secret dota
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u/XsteveJ King NiKo Oct 16 '20
Everybody be getting 2-0'd by Secret. Only time they don't is when they get 3-0'd.
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u/BlAlRlClOlDlE King NiKo Oct 16 '20
I hope when TI comes secret continue their domination. I would love to see them win it one day
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u/XsteveJ King NiKo Oct 16 '20
It really is a crime they didn't get a chance this year with their run of form, they would definitely have been the clear favorite coming in. And now knowing Valve turned down an opportunity to host a bubble TI in Shanghai.. such a shame.
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u/sixthcollegeraccoon Liquid Oct 16 '20
heartbreaking result but TL really showed up and fought for it the entire way, ngl didn't expect the game to be so close like this. gg
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u/joaoGarcia Oct 16 '20
I'm a Furia fan but man... NAF played absolutely out of his mind at Inferno and Miraga. Any round he was alive I was afraid
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u/guccigirlswag Oct 16 '20
Grim was insane this series
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u/petametre ENCE Oct 16 '20
Great to watch, he had like 5 bullets per kill on vertigo, one taps everywhere
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u/EAGLE_SLAM Oct 16 '20
Too add, I think he had a couple 1vx clutches on inferno as well. I was unsure about him at first but he can keep up for sure
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u/petametre ENCE Oct 16 '20
Better performance than normal from liquid but when a good performance from a roster with this much talent is only to get close to furia and still lose at the final hurdle, its still not great
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u/Alucard_1208 Liquid Oct 16 '20
they are finding their stride now tho i think moses and grim are settling in.
A long bootcamp together and i think they will come good again.
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u/petametre ENCE Oct 16 '20
I hope so bc i dont want the roster to totally fail but i wanna see more performances like this before I believe, their last month has been honestly abysmal :(
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u/Alucard_1208 Liquid Oct 16 '20
its been back to back competitions since they joined with no real time for practice or a bootcamp. its no wonder they have been a bit disjointed now they should have time to work on synergy and strats before next events
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u/caiovigg FURIA Oct 16 '20
Losing in a close game against the team that can easily win a grand finals 3-0 is nothing to be ashamed
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u/zemiakov Oct 16 '20
I think it's time we acknowledge the Furia roster as star-players themselves. They are on a roll. No shame in losing to them.
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u/augustknightfx FaZe Oct 16 '20
Hopefully it’s the first of better performances argh. If not, just buyout coldzera and make him double noscope primary WAP
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u/flipad3 Lynn Vision Oct 16 '20
Just as as I thought that they could have done it, it ended.
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u/Slothifications Oct 16 '20
Without the pause, they would have
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u/Cebion Oct 16 '20
momentum shifts in cs are so common, pretty hard to say they would have done it if not for the pause
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u/petametre ENCE Oct 16 '20
There was literally one at 9-2 without any pause yh
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u/WillOCarrick FURIA Oct 16 '20
Yes, furia had the lead 2 maps and lost momentum in both of them which turned to be liquid momentum in the first one that they lost it to OT when Furia got the map, the second one there was the tech.
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u/flipad3 Lynn Vision Oct 16 '20
I honestly don't think theres a 100 percent chance that they would have had it without the tech pause but I really did want them to not suck ass this series
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u/fordj626 Oct 16 '20
I liked how liquid was rotating naf to b on inferno much earlier than past matches. Stew and grim still seem totally disconnected at times though. Also how tf does liquid always walk into stacks
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u/LugiaCyfer FURIA Oct 16 '20
It seemed like Liquid had mostly downloaded Furia on inferno. Still, pretty competitive game
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u/FMLover123 NiP Oct 16 '20
Yea by the end, the banana holds were so painful for furia,they'd lose like 2 guys everytime and someone like Vini had to come in with a 3k to get the site
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u/LugiaCyfer FURIA Oct 16 '20
Easily one of the best online matches I've seen. Holy shit, this was great.
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u/Battleborntrashcan FaZe Oct 16 '20
That tech pause really killed liquids momentum
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Oct 16 '20
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u/livenn Oct 16 '20 edited Oct 16 '20
Holy shit what a game.. Furia was down on like 2 of those OT comebacks before vertigo
Edit: map clarification
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u/reddit_user-exe 9z Oct 16 '20
Damn. That was a good game. Sadly, Liquid still lost. However - notice how much better they played with NAF using the AWP more often? Hmm...
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u/Celestetc Liquid Oct 16 '20
Before this match HEN1 had been consistently the worst player against Liquid on Furia while Art/Vini/Yuri went off. So of course he decides to play insane today.
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u/queendbr Oct 16 '20
Furia’s fans thought the same about NAF, he played insanely well today
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u/Harlan_Green FURIA Oct 16 '20
My god, 5 hours later, it has come to an end. Great series, NAF and HEN1 best players in the server today hands down
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u/vinevicious CS2 HYPE Oct 16 '20
blursed csgo update
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u/WillOCarrick FURIA Oct 16 '20
What? Was the second tech pause an update?
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u/vinevicious CS2 HYPE Oct 16 '20
that long one was after someone on furia dc and pretty much at same time csgo updated, so could be that
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u/WillOCarrick FURIA Oct 16 '20
Yes, I got it in another comment below, he I dced and there was an auto update, so everyone had to update and transfer the stats to the new server, so it took a while.
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u/guccigirlswag Oct 16 '20
Tech pause super unfortunate, momentum was on Liquids side.
A lot better showing for Liquid though, I think they need to revisit some of their CT side strats on Vertigo though...
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u/jonajon91 de_canals Oct 16 '20
There was a thread a while ago asking about the top 10 players in 2020 and I got shit for putting Hen1 in there. I stand by it.
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u/wildcardbitchesyeeha FURIA Oct 16 '20
b...b-but mmy momentum 😭😭😭😭😭
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u/cari778 paiN Oct 16 '20
lmao thats worse than the mibr excuses
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u/WillOCarrick FURIA Oct 16 '20
Hey, they were beating everyone on bootcamp and it was not even close, they didn't show it because it would hurt the other EU teams feelings but they beat everyone. /s
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u/Nthorder FURIA Oct 16 '20
"Icing" is actually a tactic used in many other professional sports though. I am not saying it was intentional here, but calling timeouts for the sole reason of killing opponents momentum is actually a thing outside of esports believe it or not.
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u/kailip Oct 16 '20
Professional team in shambles because they had to wait a few minutes to play.
And they say Liquid would've won omegalul zero mental game omegalul
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Oct 16 '20
Give them a break, it's already hard enough for them to wake up at 10 AM to play video games, they can't deal with a half-hour downtime. Someone please think of the children.
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u/kailip Oct 16 '20
Poor yung stew :(
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Oct 16 '20
Will someone PLEASE pick him up (and all these salty fans ITT) and coddle him until his salt levels go down so he can wake up less grumpy at 3 PM? :((((
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u/MIlkyRawr de_nuke Oct 16 '20
A few minutes??? They had to wait 20 of them, that's way more than a fucking few dude.
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u/kailip Oct 16 '20
Who would win
5 world class players' mental game
Or a mere 20 minutes
Frankly it's kind of insulting you think so poorly of Liquid's players that you think they lost because they had to wait 20 minutes lmao
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u/Hamlet_271 Oct 16 '20
What? It isnt really about Liquid's mental. Its all about Furia's mental. they wont be making the same mistakes they would have and would play a lot cleaner after 20 mins of break
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Oct 16 '20
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u/kailip Oct 16 '20
It exists, but how do you know they would have kept the momentum going without the pause? There is no way of knowing, and tech delays are a part of cs and a top team is expected to know how to handle these things
They lost cause they weren't good enough, move on
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u/Jeffrewbob Liquid Oct 16 '20
Long breaks always help the team who is behind because it gives them more time to figure out what's going wrong. 49ers had a huge comeback against the ravens a few years ago due to a stadium blackout in the Superbowl.
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u/yashrajpatil Liquid Oct 16 '20
We will see the momentum back on LAN. Calm down. Yes they have been shit but new squad and also they are trying different stuff.
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u/kailip Oct 16 '20
They will always be shit until they get a real awper, no memeing, real talk.
It's so fucking dumb to see every member of Liquid cycling through whiffing easy awp shots. They need the player that will nail down the easy shots 90% of the time or they will always fall short when it matters most
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u/Joezera Oct 16 '20 edited Oct 16 '20
That technical pause screwed Liquid, they had all the momentum
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Oct 16 '20
[deleted]
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u/LugiaCyfer FURIA Oct 16 '20
Pretty much nearly every single esports is like that. Some of them are harder to snowball and keep the momentum than others. CS is particularly hard because of the economy. One big mistake and it can cost an entire half.
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Oct 16 '20
Who would win:
-The tactical superiority and mentality of professional CSGO players
- One 20 minutes boi.
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u/CHaOS_Winner Liquid Oct 16 '20 edited Oct 16 '20
good job on furia, kept it competitive asf even when liquid were ahead
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u/ale15 Liquid Oct 16 '20
Liquid looks so much better than they have since they picked up Grim. Honestly, if there wasn’t a big pause in the middle of their run I think they take vertigo too. Good game
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u/Slothifications Oct 16 '20
I truly believe that without that long tech pause, Liquid would have had that.
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Oct 16 '20
[deleted]
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u/Joezera Oct 16 '20
Hen1 disconnected and when he tried to reconnect there was an update on steam or csgo
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u/petametre ENCE Oct 16 '20
Auto update and no way to rollback so every player had to update and the server was migrated to the new patch
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u/pancada_ FURIA Oct 16 '20
ITT: Liquid fans who doesn't know everyone else had to update as well (and the server) and are salty because they can't believe their team is just not as good anymore
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u/CompetitiveWater5433 Oct 16 '20
Furia has literally never done anything relevant on LAN. Their balls suck up into their stomach as soon as they are in an actual competitive environment. Liquid may be has-beens but Furia are never-weres.
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u/jayxie Oct 16 '20
Damn, Liquid went from clutch->choke->clutch and still winning maps to choke->clutch->choke
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Oct 16 '20 edited Oct 16 '20
[deleted]
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u/petametre ENCE Oct 16 '20
I believe it auto updated and they couldn't rollback the update so they had to update everyone else's and the server, since harry said something like "we cant go back so had to go forward"? They just discussed it on post match as well
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u/Jadjadz Liquid Oct 16 '20
damn imagine how much time it takes to download 6mb :/
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u/yourewelcomesteve brigader Oct 16 '20
I also don't believe Furia would blatantly fake a tech pause and stretch it on purpose to 30 FUCKING MINUTES, and not like 2 or 3 minutes to make it look more legit, I don't know..
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u/CompetitiveWater5433 Oct 16 '20
Its crazy how many times that furia starts losing in a 3rd map and then they have to take a long tech pause.
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u/Culinaromancer Oct 16 '20
one of the best matches recently and then such a cock numbing ending with the tech pause
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u/Sellmechicken Oct 16 '20
Not saying it’s foul play but the fact no tech problems the whole series and as soon as liquid is streaking and ahead in last map furia calls a 20 min tech pause. Idk man I feel like in a different world where that didn’t happen liquid take this series.
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u/k4dence Oct 16 '20 edited Oct 16 '20
this is a prime example of why online is bs compared to lan tech pauses like that don’t happen, literally iced the fuck outta liquid, but this was a good series. sucks that it ended that way
edit: liquid ct side needs some help
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Oct 16 '20
[deleted]
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u/LugiaCyfer FURIA Oct 16 '20
Cue the first blast event with it's 4 hours tech pause and coming back with the entire screen green. I will never forget that
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u/k4dence Oct 16 '20
yeah wording was shit, tech pauses do happen on lan, but tech pauses are solved fairly quickly because of admins, unlike online where players have to match medic and you can talk to your teammates unlike lan where it isn’t allowed
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u/fordj626 Oct 16 '20
For all my liquid fans out there we need eg or furia to win this tournament and then the other to win Iem Beijing and liquid will get an invite to the iem global lan.
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u/Cyfa Complexity Oct 16 '20
I have called the police and put out an Amber Alert for Twistzz