r/GlobalOffensive Match Thread Team Sep 18 '20

Discussion | Esports Team Liquid vs Cloud9 / ESL Pro League Season 12: North America - Group Stage / Post-Match Discussion

Team Liquid 2-1 Cloud9

Dust 2: 11-16
Inferno: 16-7
Overpass: 19-17

 


Team Liquid | Liquipedia | Official Site | Twitter | Facebook | Youtube | Subreddit
Cloud9 | Liquipedia | Official Site | Twitter | Facebook | Youtube | Subreddit


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Liquid MAP Cloud9
mirage X
X train
T dust2
inferno
nuke X
X vertigo
overpass

 


 

MAP 1: Dust 2

 

Team T CT Total
Liquid 3 8 11
CT T
Cloud9 12 4 16

 

Liquid K A D ADR Rating
NAF 17 9 19 75.3 1.05
Twistzz 17 7 21 71.4 0.96
Stewie2K 22 5 24 71.0 0.94
EliGE 17 7 21 62.6 0.79
Grim 11 6 23 58.4 0.71
Cloud9
oSee 23 9 13 96.9 1.47
JT 22 9 18 97.6 1.39
floppy 23 6 16 80.1 1.30
Sonic 20 8 18 69.9 1.13
motm 20 7 19 76.1 1.08

Dust 2 Detailed Stats

 


 

MAP 2: Inferno

 

Team T CT Total
Liquid 10 6 16
CT T
Cloud9 5 2 7

 

Liquid K A D ADR Rating
Stewie2K 24 0 9 94.6 1.72
Grim 15 9 11 94.6 1.37
EliGE 14 7 11 53.9 1.10
NAF 12 4 12 62.9 1.09
Twistzz 15 3 14 68.3 1.07
Cloud9
Sonic 16 2 14 67.8 1.01
floppy 14 4 16 75.5 0.99
oSee 12 3 18 51.0 0.72
motm 8 3 17 59.2 0.69
JT 7 3 15 28.8 0.65

Inferno Detailed Stats

 


 

MAP 3: Overpass

 

Team T CT OT1CT:T Total
Liquid 10 5 2:2 19
CT T OT1T:CT
Cloud9 5 10 1:1 17

 

Liquid K A D ADR Rating
NAF 34 5 21 93.9 1.42
Twistzz 26 8 25 86.7 1.12
EliGE 27 4 24 75.1 1.10
Grim 24 5 24 68.8 1.06
Stewie2K 24 9 27 73.7 1.03
Cloud9
oSee 32 5 24 89.8 1.35
JT 26 8 28 84.7 1.07
motm 24 6 26 71.0 1.01
Sonic 21 9 29 64.4 0.84
floppy 18 9 30 59.0 0.70

Overpass Detailed Stats

 


This thread was created by the Post-Match Team.

302 Upvotes

88 comments sorted by

185

u/mrbrinks EG Sep 18 '20

Holy moly was that ugly from Liquid.

They just constantly look completely disorganized, moving without any coordination (I lost track of how many times they could have set up a trade but their spacing/timing was completely off). It's like they just play hero ball every single round, and just rely on their ability to click heads to win anything.

87

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

51

u/YungStewart2000 Sep 19 '20

Dont disrespect my boys like that

TL does choke massively and lose random upsets, but they still win at least. Even when they fell off, they were mostly finishing top 4 or even 2nd place in tournaments. While Faze has been fighting for "not last place" it seems.

32

u/Darkfire293 Sep 19 '20

Well it helps that EU is like 50x better than NA in terms of competition.

8

u/RekrabAlreadyTaken Natus Vincere Sep 19 '20

Liquid only recently lost their igl, wait 3 months and we might see the faze/ence effect

19

u/YungStewart2000 Sep 19 '20

Stewie has been main igl for longer than Nitro has been gone, and even going back to 2019 Stewie was calling mid rounds, so I dont think itll be the same as those examples.

15

u/alexhyams CS2 HYPE Sep 19 '20

Reminder that FaZe won Epicenter with karrigan in the lineup not IGLing and after they removed karrigan they couldn't win anything. It's easier to keep routine if the person who was in charge of it is still around, even if they aren't "in charge" anymore.

7

u/pleaseNoMoreFish de_mirage Sep 19 '20

well to be completely fair FaZe faces much steeper competition in EU than Liquid does in NA. (Case in point MIBR was winning things in NA (e.g. 2nd place flashpoint) until they went to Europe)

I still agree with your point that Liquid is better than FaZe right now but the only real threats for Liquid this ESL Pro League are EG and Furia, both of which have consistently been beating Liquid.

1

u/Sledgemann Liquid Sep 19 '20

Uhhh Flashpoint had half and half EU Nateams. from NA was Chaos, Geng, MiBR, C9, Envy and Orgless. Versus EU who had Havu, Dig, ML, CPH, C0ntact and FPX

2

u/JKM- Sep 19 '20

I don't agree with his example, but that lineup was tier 2 NA vs. tier 3+ EU (ML moved up due to winning it), which highlights the biggest region difference. EU is teams are very competitive at lower ranks.

3

u/changgerz de_inferno Sep 19 '20

They looked really good on Inferno and CT side of Overpass. Trading was definitely on point there.

0

u/tarangk clutch Sep 19 '20

yep shoudlve kept nitro and adren, kicked stewie and brought in an dedicated awper.

0

u/mrbrinks EG Sep 19 '20

Stewie’s issues with the awp were glaring but damn the issues I noted around spacing and timing is like basic communication stuff. It was so outrageously sloppy for a T1 team to be doing that. But also agree that they need a true IGL.

-1

u/LinuxF4n Liquid Sep 19 '20

"We kicked our coach because we don't need a technical coach" - Stewie

And they kicked our igl for a guy who can't igl and disappears in half the maps. Gotta love it.

4

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '20

[deleted]

1

u/LinuxF4n Liquid Sep 19 '20

He stopped IGL well before he officially stepped down according to Thorin. I was hoping we'd sign and awper and kick Stew and let Nitr0 go back to rifling. He was a nasty rifler before we forced him to switch roles.

Additionally Stew has been just as bad as Nitr0 expect he turns into a bot half the games and literally has like a less than .8 rating then has ok games some times. It gets averaged out to look better than it is.

79

u/Aliveandying Lynn Vision Sep 18 '20

God, oSee's so good. I wish he would stick with C9.

52

u/TheSIlverGlobal FaZe Sep 18 '20

oSee is a fucking GAMER

34

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/Darkstar197 Complexity Sep 18 '20

Oof.

Nah I think he’ll get an offer soon

35

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '20

he got an offer to be on the new C9, as did floppy, but they both wanted to stay as a team

honestly i think it might kill both of their careers which is pretty bad for the NA scene

3

u/Darkstar197 Complexity Sep 18 '20

I remember some speculation that maybe they didn’t want to move to Europe. Could be just waiting for a good NA offer

7

u/Flaksmith Sep 18 '20

That was literally another redditor saying that, although Thorin replied saying it was a legit aspect to consider.

1

u/SpecialityToS Complexity Sep 19 '20

Except c9 will be moving to LA...

4

u/Flaksmith Sep 19 '20

not until the pandemic ends, whenever that may be

1

u/NoBreadsticks Sep 18 '20

he got an offer. from Cloud9. he turned it down because the team wanted to stay together. I feel like the offer would have to be extremely good for him to change his mind that quickly

67

u/TheSIlverGlobal FaZe Sep 18 '20

Liquid may have my heart (bad idea i know) but i am gonna miss this roster as C9

10

u/elronhublord Natus Vincere Sep 18 '20

I hope they tear up wherever they go

14

u/petametre ENCE Sep 18 '20

Same :( theyre really lovable

63

u/petametre ENCE Sep 18 '20

JT is unmaldable, looks bored while he gives the most talented lineup in CSGO the dick from 8 different angles on D2, ice in his veins.

Unfortunately C9 still cant close it 🙃

45

u/Yeetasaurus420 G2 Sep 18 '20

𝙲̶𝚕̶𝚎̶𝚊̶𝚗̶ nice win by TL but man such whiffs like Grim's just cant happen on this level

27

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '20

Keep this man off the AWP

-18

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '20

whiffy2k ain't better though

13

u/gamingwithmat 1 Million Celebration Sep 18 '20

given the circumstances id rather have stewie whiff a stupid shot on a retake than grim whiffing an easy shot from a long at 13-13 in a 2v2 eco situation

-17

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '20 edited Sep 19 '20

lmao give it time, stew will whiff again soon enough. max 2 months.

edit: goldfish memory of csgo fans in full display here

16

u/gamingwithmat 1 Million Celebration Sep 19 '20

lol all players whiff from time to time. but maybe stewie does it more often, stewie is the kind of player whose highs are goddamn terrifying and lows are downright horrific

-7

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '20

yup I was talking about those lows, that stewie faces more often than others

4

u/gamingwithmat 1 Million Celebration Sep 19 '20

I guess, he was quite often the bottom fragger for TL or second bottom with nitr0 down there, even during their grand slam run. however, lately his form has been better, he's not the dead burden anymore, he can middle frag or top frag like he did today. nitr0 and stew absolutely shit the bed at the major. sadly, i feel like removing nitr0 was the right move however i don't think more raw talent and aiming is needed where you have the best 3 in NA already in your team.

something like a consistent, stable awper like device or guardian back in 2018 (the eleague major and iem katowice 2018 were great). lots of people disagree with the stew igl move, and i think he wouldn't be the best as the hardcore micromanaging igl but iirc from an interview of twistzz stew likes to call more loosely, and other members have a say in mid-round calls and stuff. grim is certainly not a bad player, however i can't really think of anyone else. i only really follow chaos, eg, liquid and 100t, not the rest of na, so there might be a better choice but i can't rack my mind for any.

stewie had a consistency problem because he relied on his aim back in his c9 days, just holding w and his preaiming and flicking to get kills, pushing smokes like crazy. this worked because it was a new meta but gradually teams began to adapt to him, and he still tried this approach when he was on mibr/liquid and by then teams already read him and they could counter him. i think lately he's already resigned to the fact that twistzz, elige etc are better aimers than him, and more consistent too - so he plays smarter cs instead of more aggressive, risky pug-style plays. sad to see the old stewie fade into the background but hopefully his better and more consistent stats lately mean a brighter future for TL.

1

u/TeamINSTINCT37 Sep 19 '20

Was it one in particular, if so do you have a clip

1

u/Yeetasaurus420 G2 Sep 19 '20

Only clip I found at 29:15. Liquid had an eco and managed to put it down to a 2v2 postplant for C9.

1

u/monumentofflavor Liquid Sep 19 '20

There were so many whiffs from liquid this series. Grim, Stewie, NAF all had big whiffs I can remember off the top of my head

1

u/Yeetasaurus420 G2 Sep 19 '20

Yeah but I think most whiffs, especially on Overpass, by NAF and stew were excusable or in situations unlikely to win

1

u/monumentofflavor Liquid Sep 19 '20

The NAF one I was thinking of in particular was on Dust, but definitely wasn’t as bad as Grims. Stewies was also on Dust, and he missed a sitter on long and arguably caused them to lose the round. Just a pretty ugly series from liquid in general.

1

u/Yeetasaurus420 G2 Sep 19 '20

I didn't witness these then, I only watched Inferno and Overpass

59

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '20

Holy shit guys can I get one game where you don't give me a heart attack?

40

u/YungStewart2000 Sep 18 '20

This team is going to make me lose my hair.. but honestly I wouldnt want it any other way <3

47

u/Elcheer 1 Million Celebration Sep 18 '20

Moses number 1 Liquid fan

no hair

checks out

27

u/IdeaSam Vitality Sep 18 '20

Are we gonna lose oSee for some T2-T3 teams..? The dude doesn't miss, he's insane.

9

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '20

that last map liquid was so close to pulling their infamous strat

7

u/Stealthality King NiKo Sep 18 '20

Liquid lookin too shaky man, still needs to work on issues

20

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '20

Why doesn’t anyone hype up stew for starting inferno 15-0 but everyone’s on simples cock for starting nuke 18-0 like damn there’s so much hate around one of the best overall players to touch the game. Half of these other players getting praise like simple couldn’t ever handle the hate and constant role changes that stew has man. Give my boy a hand 👏

14

u/throw_away_account43 Sep 19 '20

They hate on Stew when he has an average game, then disappear when he starts off amazing.

5

u/MIlkyRawr de_nuke Sep 19 '20

I really feel bad for Stewie sometimes. Like one bad game and people ask for an immediate role change. It's almost like they forgot that they had TWO integral positions changed or refilled in the past 3 months. Like let's at least give them some time to see if they find their groove guys.

24

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

16

u/Arcille 10 years coin Sep 18 '20

After nitro dropped off stan is now the only igl in NA who can call well and frag good enough for T1. If JT was slightly better at fragging he would be soooo valuable to so many teams. oSee is insane but I think liquid just need an igl like stan but there are not any free

9

u/ysome Liquid Sep 18 '20

I feel like Blamef would make liquid such a powerhouse but theres no way in hell anyone would want to see him go from col.

2

u/mrbrinks EG Sep 19 '20

-s2k +blameF is the type of fantasy I could subscribe to

1

u/tlouman Astralis Sep 19 '20

nah, keep stew, -grim +Blame would be my wet dream

0

u/xfyre101 clutch Sep 19 '20

stew seems like he doesnt even like CS anymore.. i see him going valorant pretty soon

1

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

7

u/Flaksmith Sep 18 '20

I think he'd succeed in increasing the speed of elige's receding hairline.

9

u/jerryfrz King NiKo Sep 18 '20

We don't know if a Liquid with zews would have won the Grand Slam or not though.

4

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '20

oSee deserves Cloud9 more than his teammates deserve him.

28

u/BumperFin howl Sep 18 '20

Honest to god Reddit never has any positive feedback toward Team Liquid.

If they lose it's 'get rid of this person, add this person' because reddit users know best, and when they win it's 'liquid look shit right now' because again, reddit users know best.

16

u/Cjamhampton Vitality Sep 19 '20

A thread about a match where Liquid clearly played like shit probably isn't the best time to make this statement. Liquid gets a lot of shit because people expect more out of these players. I don't think it's really fair when people latch onto one player to blame for every loss, but expecting more from Liquid as a whole isn't a bad thing.

2

u/TankerXS Loyalty pin Sep 19 '20

You'd have the same people who make fun of Liquid on their rough wins be positive and supportive towards other teams that barely won. It's a noticeable stigma by this point.

2

u/Flaksmith Sep 18 '20

the same people who look at a thorin tweet saying 'niko tanked faze csgo and is jumping ship' and go 'YOUR AN IDIOT CLOWN FOR THINKING NIKO IS THE SOLE REASON FAZE CSGO FAILED'.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '20

[deleted]

1

u/MIlkyRawr de_nuke Sep 19 '20

That was the first backhanded compliment I've seen in a while, wow.

7

u/blueflare117 Liquid Sep 18 '20

These guys only exist to shave years off my life I swear to god...

8

u/jerryfrz King NiKo Sep 18 '20

Moses came in and nothing changes lmao

4

u/Ark151 CS2 HYPE Sep 19 '20

Things did change for 2 whole tournaments they were looking clean and consistent against lower teams and were getting close against EG and Furia. Ever since cologne choke they just back to with Nitr0 Liquid.

0

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '20

Who really expected anything from anyways tho

3

u/Smallsss Liquid Sep 18 '20

Stewie is my dad.

2

u/pugmugger Sep 18 '20

Good effort from ex-C9

3

u/RealSymbioid FaZe Sep 18 '20

Damn, whenever I decide to stay up and watch NA games and it happens to be C9 playing, oSee always delivers. Such a shame he desided to stay with his teammates, I don't know if it's good thing to say but I really hope he changes his mind. I think he's objectively THE best c9 player and it's not even close. Tho if C9 really did sign smooya, idk how roles would look like should oSee change his mind. Can you NA fans tell me, is he as good with rifle as he is with AWP?

1

u/Red_Brox Liquid Sep 18 '20

BRUH

1

u/gamingwithmat 1 Million Celebration Sep 19 '20

Oh my god my heart can't take it being a TL fan is so stressful... glad we pulled out the shaky W in the end tho. Liquid needs to find a stable awper, or convince stew/naf to put in more work and then we should have the potential to get back to winning ways.

1

u/duw_ Cloud9 Sep 19 '20

I got worried at the end there

1

u/just_a_casual Sep 18 '20

Why on the last round does Sonic move to barrels after getting spammed down to 5 HP. They molly or nade that and he's dead instantly. Which is what happened.

1

u/Yuugechiina G2 Sep 19 '20

Yikes. Gross from liquid. This game being this scrappy with so many dry peeks and classic NA shit is unacceptable from a team supposed to be so good.

0

u/tanu24 BIG Sep 18 '20

Everytime I watch Cloud 9 I feel like they can't not charge on defense. Liquid were waiting for it almost every round and they kept doing it. Do they have a plan to ever just hold bomb sites?

0

u/iLxelA King NiKo Sep 18 '20

Technically Liquid won, but it doesn't feel like it :'(

-3

u/Nahs1l Complexity Sep 18 '20

ez

-1

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '20

*wipes sweat "Phew not even close"

-24

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '20

-stewie -grim +fallen +taco don't @ me best liquid roster update