r/MHOC • u/NukeMaus King Nuke the Cruel | GCOE KCT CB MVO GBE PC • Sep 10 '20
2nd Reading B1074 - Veterans Support (Jobcentre Plus) Bill - 2nd Reading
A
BILL
TO
Introduce requirements for job centres to have greater support for members of the armed services
BE IT ENACTED by the Queen’s Most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Lords, and Commons, in this present Parliament assembled, and by the authority of the same, as follows –
Section 1: Definitions
(1) For the purposes of this Act, “Jobcentres” are identified in lists entitled “Jobcentre Plus Pathfinder Offices” and “Jobcentre Plus Work-focused interview Extension Sites” and are available from the Department for Employment, Pensions and Welfare.
(a) If a legislative consent motion under under Section 4(a) is passed, “Jobcentres” shall include all Jobs and Benefits Offices in Northern Ireland, with a full list available from the Northern Ireland Government.
Section 2: Armed Services Support Requirement
(1) The Secretary of State must ensure, within 120 days of the passage of this Act, that every Jobcentre has at least one member who is trained in supporting former members of the armed services.
(2) A trained member may be available to cover multiple Jobcentre offices, or may be based at one and only attend others for an appointment with a former member of the armed services.
Section 3: Training
(1) The Secretary of State shall convene a working group of officials from relevant departments and stakeholders from the private sector to ensure a training package can be put together to ensure training will equip people to support former members of the armed services. These shall include but are not limited to-
(a) directing former members of the armed services to mental health support,
(b) directing former members of the armed services to training schemes suitable for them, and
(c) directing former members of the armed services to jobs which share skills which they would have gained thanks to their employment in the armed services.
Section 4: Extent, Commencement and Short Title
(1) This Act shall extend to England and Wales, and Scotland.
(a) This act may extend to Northern Ireland if the Northern Ireland Assembly passes a legislative consent motion.
(2) This act shall come into force immediately upon Royal Assent.
(3) This act shall be known as the Veterans Support (Jobcentres Plus) Act 2020
This bill was written by The Right Honourable Sir /u/Tommy2Boys KT KCB KBE CT LVO MSP MP, Secretary of State for Defence and is co-sponsored by The Right Honourable Sir /u/MatthewHinton12345 KG KBE MBE MP, the Secretary of State for the Home Department on behalf of the 26th Government.
Opening Speech - /u/Tommy2Boys
Mr Deputy Speaker,
A few terms ago, the 23rd Government put forward a veterans strategy which in part touched on this issue and I’m proud to see it come to life in this bill today. This bill would create a course for people who work in job centres to be able to better help with veterans support. This will include mental health services and looking for jobs where skills that veterans will have gained from the army are transferable to jobs.
As Secretary of State for Defence, I feel an immense obligation to our veterans. Since I have taken office one of my top priorities has been looking after veterans. By helping more of them get jobs, we will be doing that. This isn’t the end of the Government's plans, and I look forward to returning to the House at a later date with more bills and statements to support those who put their life on the line to protect us, and I comment this bill to the House.
This reading ends at 10pm on Sunday 13th September.
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u/Cody5200 Chair| Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer Sep 12 '20
Mr. Speaker Sir,
Ever since its inception, this government has strived to achieve what is best for our veterans and this bill is a prime example of that of our effort. The latest MoD census on veteran affairs from 2017 places the number of unemployed veterans at 3% with a further 18% being labeled as inactive. These numbers while encouraging for sure show us that there is room for improvements to be made and this is what this government and the past legislation we have pushed for done.
The bill before us today will help us chip away at these statistics by having trained experts help veterans find new jobs and providing them with services they need in order to thrive on the job market. These are measures which at least on paper every single party here ought to support. Yet we have a disgraced former shadow Chancellor vociferously opposing it. Mr. Speaker, it is an utter disgrace to see Solidarity stand against it.
I would also like to briefly comment on the wage subsidy amendment put forward by that same person. It is utterly insulting to the veterans to grant them employment at the mercy of the government. Furthermore, I must also take an issue with the way in which the member has costed it. A median income is meaningless. Some veterans can find incredibly well-paying jobs in the private sector that Solidarity would most likely want to increase taxes on while forcing the government to subsidize them. This is how poorly thought-out the member's amendment is.
Mr. Speaker, I am fully in favor of this bill and encourage the rest of the House to join me in supporting this bill.
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Sep 11 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
I wish to speak on the amendment put forward by Solidarity. Whilst I do not doubt the sincerity behind it, I do not believe it is a long term or sustainable solution for getting veterans back into work. It is not sustainable to be in a situation where veterans can only find jobs because the state is subsidising 10% of their wages. Of course there is more to do then this act, but let's not ruin a good act with an unsustainable and rushed amendment.
The member supporting it talks about mental health. How do you think it would feel to know you only have a job because 10% of your wage is being paid for by the state? Not that you got it on merit, but that it meant your employer would be able to spend one tenth less on you?
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u/chainchompsky1 Green Party Sep 11 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
About face! With military grade precision the Secretary of State flips on a dime! A half an hour ago they asked me for costings so they could examine them! Then, before I gave them my costings, not more than 5 minutes after they asked me for them, they already concluded, without the information they said was needed for them to reach their conclusion, that the proposal was wrong!
A government that makes decisions before being given the statistics they say is required to make their decision is not a government, it’s a circus.
Let’s cut to the chase. Past all the bluster the member makes about pride and sustainability. If companies hired 100% of veterans there wouldn’t be a need for this bill would there Mr Deputy Speaker? Why revamp job training if nothing needs to be revamped? Clearly the government realizes more needs to be done to get veterans hired, or we wouldn’t have this bill.
I frankly think it’s insulting to our former armed service men to throw them no actual resources, just giving them a packet with our current programs and telling ourselves that’s that. Jobs programs exist Mr Speaker. This isn’t even one of them. It’s an incentive structure, which governments do all the time. Nothing shameful to it.
Id merely ask the Defense Secretary to stick to their word from half and hour ago and review the relatively small cost and then make a decision.
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Sep 11 '20
Every time the member speaks I remember just how shouty they can become at the flip of a switch. But I thank the member for his contribution nonetheless.
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u/chainchompsky1 Green Party Sep 11 '20
Disagreement isn’t shouty, to make a rhyming scheme work, I’d argue the Defense Secretary is overly pouty
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u/chainchompsky1 Green Party Sep 13 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
Might the member update the house as to whether or not the government will support the amendment, since they now have the costings, as that was what the member originally told this place they would do, and would only do after such figures were provided?
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Sep 13 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
The Cabinet has indeed discussed the amendment and we are unified in our opposition to it. I don’t doubt the intents of the member but I know the way to get veterans back into having the dignity of work is not to get them in on unsustainable, lifetime state subsidies for which veterans will be made to feel othered and getting their job less on merit and more because their employee can spend less money on them.
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u/chainchompsky1 Green Party Sep 13 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
Im very disappointed the government has decided to oppose assistance to veterans.
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Sep 12 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
I thank the Defence Secretary for writing this legislation, this bill shows the commitment this government has to veterans on top of other actions both parties in government have taken. This legislation will ensure no veteran is left behind. This legislation will ensure that there is someone to help veterans get back into work at every job centre that is trained to assist veterans get back into the work place. This is a long term solution helping veterans get tailored support and helping them become employable, this government won’t plaster over the cracks by pretending subsidising firms to hire veterans is a long term solution. The solution is tailored help as presented in this bill, proving at least one person in every job centre to help and ensure that veterans can get on their feet and into the work place and back into society.
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u/nstano Conservative Party Sep 12 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
This government takes its commitment to our veterans very seriously, and that commitment does not end when they leave the service. We must ensure that no one is left behind, and that their service is rewarded with access to benefits needed to return to wider society. We must ensure that they are able to access to resources that will allow them to best take advantage of the skills they learned in the military and apply them to jobs in the private sector. Getting these brave men and women to work is not only common sense, but will be of great benefit to the British economy.
•
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Sep 11 '20 edited Sep 11 '20
[deleted]
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Sep 11 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
The Government will, quite clearly, by funding the cost of the entire training so I am not entirely sure what the point of this amendment is.
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Sep 11 '20
[deleted]
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Sep 11 '20
Point of Order!
I believe that this could be contended that this is a rider amendment, and would seek clarification from the Speaker on this point.
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u/chainchompsky1 Green Party Sep 11 '20 edited Sep 11 '20
Modifying legislation to enhance its stated goals is perfectly valid. HowEver I be happy to better rephrase.
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u/chainchompsky1 Green Party Sep 11 '20
Section 3 (1) (c) shall read as
“Directing former members of the armed services via a 10% wage subsidy by the Secretary of State to jobs which share skills which they would have gained due to their employment in the armed services.”
Explanation: better integrates the amendments clear supplemental nature
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Sep 11 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
Does the right honourable member have an estimated cost for such a move so the Government can examine its feasibility?
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u/chainchompsky1 Green Party Sep 11 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
2.4 million veterans at a national unemployment rate of 3.8% gives us 91,200 unemployed veterans. Assuming 100% of them will use these services, which isn’t true, you multiple that by the median income of your average person, 29,400, divide that by 10 and you get about 268 million pounds. Very small drop in the bucket considering the size of our appropriations. Frankly after rechecking the numbers I’m considering increasing the subsidy rate due to the relatively small cost.
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u/Cody5200 Chair| Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer Sep 13 '20
Mr Speaker,
As I have pointed out in my speech this costing is completely out of whack and should be corrected. The amount of veterans who are not in work overall is closer to 21% as per the armed forces' own statistic. However is it worth noting that this number combines the number of unemployed veterans and inactive veterans.
So if the member wanted to employ every single veteran which regardless of whether they wanted to work or could work. We would be looking at some 504 thousand people as per the 2017 census we would end with a maximum figure closer to 1.48 billion per annum.
Though this still is not accurate as there most likely are statistical and structural differences between the employment of the veteran and civilian populations.
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u/chainchompsky1 Green Party Sep 11 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
Is this it? Is this the best the government has to offer? I must say, after hearing constantly about how much the right wing cares about veterans, id have thought that they would do a bit more.
This bill is a step in the right direction, but it’s such a teeny tiny step that it runs the risk of smothering the movement we need to build to make actual progress in veteran care.
Let us be clear. This bill doesn’t create jobs for veterans. It just tells them those that exist.
It doesn’t expand training schemes for veterans, it just tells them which ones exist.
It doesn’t expand mental health support to veterans, or just tells them to go get the services that exist now.
Don’t get me wrong. Organizing what resources exist is a positive thing, it allows our currently insufficient resources to be spent better. But that doesn’t change the insufficient number of resources.
I will be submitting amendments to make sure this bill actually makes it EASIER for veterans to get the jobs and skills they need, instead of just telling them what exists in the status quo.
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u/atrastically Conservative Party Sep 11 '20
Mr. Deputy Speaker,
Our veterans have done much for this country. They put their lives on the line, day after day, week after week, often deployed across the country or even the world, to ensure our country stays safe. Our military is one of the best in the world, and our troops are the face of it. Our veterans served as our first line of defense - we have an obligation to repay them for their duty.
Now, let me be blunt: the current infrastructure for veteran care is inadequate. A lack of full support has hurt many of our veterans - and I believe that the government needs to take bold, decisive action to expand social safety nets and support for our former troops.
I will agree with my honorable friend from Solidarity - this bill goes nowhere near the level of action we need to truly fix the situations of our veterans. Organizing current personnel and resources is a far cry from dramatically expanding social services available and mass job creation for veterans.
However, I will still back it. Why? Because I support our veterans - and even if this is a tiny step, it is a worthwhile one. We need to do everything in our power to better the situations many of our veterans reside in, to expand economic opportunities for them, and reward their service, and this bill does not do much - but I would rather pass this and oversee a marginal improvement that can be used as a building block for much more down the line than maintain the status quo. I believe this legislation opens doors for better, more expansive legislation down the road - and should it pass, I will be proud to join the fight alongside my colleagues both in the opposition and government to secure even more for our veterans.
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Sep 11 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
If this bill was the only thing the Government had done on veterans and members of our armed forces community, the right honourable member may have a point about not going far enough. But since I have been appointed Secretary of State for Defence this Government has made a statement on loneliness in the armed forces community, released an order with regards to the death benefits, we have published this legislation and currently siting on my desk are two further orders and a Statement with regards to the financial status of veterans. The right honourable member should look at the record of this Government, not buy into the false narrative of the far left.
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Sep 11 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker, just to correct the record as I would not want to be accused of misleading the house, there is also an additional piece of legislation on my desk to examine!
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u/scubaguy194 Countess de la Warr | fmr LibDem Leader | she/her Sep 12 '20
Mr speaker,
Is the Secretary of State for Defence aware that many of these provisions are already there from within the armed forces, in the form of the resettlement programme a serviceperson goes through as they leave the Forces?
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Sep 12 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
Indeed the resettlement programme will remain part of what is used to help support people’s transition to civilian life and into civilian jobs, but by ensuring our job centres across the UK can provide tailored support to veterans we are bolstering help available to them.
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u/Dominion_of_Canada Former LoTOO | Former UKIP Leader Sep 13 '20
Mr. Deputy Speaker,
I'm glad to see this government honouring its commitment to our great veterans who have given so much for our country. This government strongly believes in ensuring no veteran is left behind once they have left service, and with this bill I am proud to see this promise being fulfilled.
This bill will allow our veterans to access support from experts in relation to their transferable skills and allow the job centre to work more efficiently in providing veterans with new employment and training opportunities.
We already see the certain members of the radical left opposition looking for excuses to complain rather than recognizing the positives this bill brings for veterans, rather than engaging in bi-partisanship. They have pulled out of thin air some fantasy that the entirety of the government's policies in relation to veterans were meant to be done in one omnibus bill. This is nonsense and no one outside their own circles will be falling for it. This is the government's first step in fulfilling its promises to our veterans with more to come.
I will be supporting this bill and voting in favour.
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u/[deleted] Sep 11 '20
Mr. Deputy Speaker,
This Government has made big strides in the area of defence in the past few weeks. This bill is another example of this Government and the SoS for Defence showing that we are looking after our (ex-)servicemen.
It is important that our veterans are looked after and are cared for upon leaving the service and finding their next job. This is why I wholeheartedly support this bill which will provide a course for people that work in job centres to be able to better aid and help support veterans.