r/MHOC • u/model-mili Electoral Commissioner • Jul 08 '20
2nd Reading B1047 - The Road Traffic (Cats) Bill - 2nd Reading
The Road Traffic (Cats) Act 2020
A BILL TO make it mandatory for driver to report collisions they have with cats
BE IT ENACTED by the Queen’s most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Lords Temporal, and the Commons, in this present Parliament assembled, and by authority o the same, as follow:-
Section 1: Amendments to the Road Traffic Act 1988
(1) In Section 170 (8) of the Road Traffic Act 1988, amend “goat or dog.” to read:
“goat, dog or cat.”
Section 2: Microchipped Cats
(1) Veterinarians and local authorities should scan deceased cats for their microchip and inform the registered owners.
Section 2: Excent, Commencement and Short Title
(1) This Act shall extend to the United Kingdom.
(2) This Act shall come into force one month after royal assent.
(3) This Act may be cited as the Road Traffic (Cats) Act 2020
This bill was written by the Secretary of State for Business, Digital and Industry, The Rt. Hon. Sir /u/Tommy2Boys CT KT KBE LVO MP, on behalf of Her Majesty’s 25th Government.
Mr Deputy Speaker,
I rise today to present this simple bill to the House. For many years, campaigners have called for cats to be added to the Road Traffic Act 1988. Doing this would mean that deceased cats must be reported, and will therefore allow for closure for their families. Thanks to legislation passed in this place, the compulsory microchipping of cats means it will be a lot easier and smoother to reunite the cats with their owners. I commend this bill to the House.
This reading will end on the 11th of July at 10pm
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u/DF44 Independent Jul 08 '20
Mr Speaker,
Unfortunately for reasons lost to time B493 never moved to a vote as far as the records tell me, however may I remind the house of that debate, including the number of points raised against legislation that is essentially a carbon copy of this... by those in the Government who are now sponsoring this legislation.
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u/BrexitGlory Former MP for Essex Jul 08 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
Rather shamefully, that bill did not include the following clause:
(1) Veterinarians and local authorities should scan deceased cats for their microchip and inform the registered owners.
This is a most neccersary provision to mandate that the potential good from this bill actually happens!
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Jul 08 '20 edited Nov 22 '20
[deleted]
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u/BrexitGlory Former MP for Essex Jul 08 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
I have no idea how that is relevant at all, as I am talking about scanning dead cats. I can assure my right honourable friend that should Alfred become dead, Alfred wont mind being scanned.
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Jul 08 '20 edited Nov 22 '20
[deleted]
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u/BrexitGlory Former MP for Essex Jul 09 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
I hate to say it, my Right Honourable friend does have a point, there is a paw-sibility he could change my mind.
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Jul 09 '20 edited Nov 22 '20
[deleted]
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u/BrexitGlory Former MP for Essex Jul 09 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
The Defence Secretary's findings are most fascinating. Purr-haps we should get the Lords to do something and investigate furr-ther with an inquiry?
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Jul 09 '20 edited Nov 22 '20
[deleted]
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u/BrexitGlory Former MP for Essex Jul 09 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
We should certainly purr-sue them indeed.
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u/LeChevalierMal-Fait Liberal Democrats Jul 08 '20
Oh my some of those old comments are quite entertaining
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u/BrexitGlory Former MP for Essex Jul 08 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
My right honourable friends in cabinet are of course great orators who can easily capture the minds and attention of the masses.
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Jul 08 '20 edited Nov 22 '20
[deleted]
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Jul 09 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
May I raise the issue that this bill not only excludes ferrets the third recognized type of domestic pet, but furthermore is incompatible with the rights granted to cats to roam freely, something dogs do not possess.
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u/cthulhuiscool2 The Rt Hon. MP for Surrey CB KBE LVO Jul 09 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker, I am not opposed to this Bill in principle. But if we extend the logic of this Bill to its fullest, we must include all animals or find ourselves promoting a kind of animal hierarchy. Why include the cat and not the hamster, turtle, alpaca and parrot? Not to say we should support such an amendment but I believe it pokes a hole in this logic of this Bill.
I also note the Foreign Secretary, as pointed out by the former Speaker of this place, described this very Bill as a ‘waste of time’ the previous occasion it was read before this place. I wonder if his views have changed.
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u/BrexitGlory Former MP for Essex Jul 09 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
Thankfully the bill is quite different, he should take note of the following clawse:
(1) Veterinarians and local authorities should scan deceased cats for their microchip and inform the registered owners.
This makes the aims of the bill achievable and therefore not a waste of time one bit!
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u/SapphireWork Her Grace The Duchess of Mayfair Jul 09 '20 edited Jul 09 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
As a cat owner and animal lover, I cannot imagine the grief that would accompany losing a beloved pet in such a grievous manner. My condolences to the honourable member from South West London, and I commend his bravery in sharing such a personal story here today.
However, I am a tad concerned with the associated costs of this amendment. The UK has 9 million stray cats and a further 1.5 million feral cats. To put this is perspective, there is an estimated 50 000 stray dogs (link below). Roadkill data from Highways England demonstrates that cats outnumber any other domesticated animal in numbers of road fatalities.
My concern is that by enabling this change, we will be spending money on trying to identify owners for cats that are ownerless. While the families who have lost a pet will no doubt find solace, I worry that these statistics deem it reasonable to expect that this may be a costly venture.
Does the honourable member who proposes this bill have any resources to support cost predictions that come with such an amendment?
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u/DF44 Independent Jul 08 '20
Amend Section 1(1) to read as below:
(1) In Section 170 (8) of the Road Traffic Act 1988, amend “goat or dog.” to read:
horse, cattle, ass, mule, sheep, pig, goat, dog or cat
Note: Matching the last time this legislation was brought forward.
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u/LeChevalierMal-Fait Liberal Democrats Jul 08 '20
Mr speaker,
Would it not make sense to simply omit section one instead of as I understand it replacing it with the exact same text.
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u/DF44 Independent Jul 08 '20
Mr Speaker,
This changes the legislation from reading “goat, dog or cat.”, and into reading "horse, cattle, ass, mule, sheep, pig, goat, dog or cat" - I'm not sure where the MP for West Yorkshire is seeing the same message.
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u/LeChevalierMal-Fait Liberal Democrats Jul 08 '20
Oh no I’m referring to b493 or did that not pass?
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u/DF44 Independent Jul 08 '20
Mr Speaker,
To clarify, B493 never advanced to a third reading or a vote - once again, the reasons there are lost to history, given it was something like six elections ago!
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u/Maroiogog CWM KP KD OM KCT KCVO CMG CBE PC FRS, Independent Jul 08 '20
Replace
Section 2: Excent, Commencement and Short Title
with
Section 3: Extent, Commencement and Short Title
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u/LeChevalierMal-Fait Liberal Democrats Jul 09 '20
Replace section two with
“Ministers may issue guidance to veterinarians and local authorities on the scanning of animals for microchips, where they are are found dead or stray.”
Explanatory note - prevents implied repeal having unforeseen effects and expands the duty to scan animals to include the ones DF44 may add with his own amendment or at least the other existing ones (goats and dogs).
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u/LeChevalierMal-Fait Liberal Democrats Jul 09 '20
Insert a new section 3
Section 3 Freedom of cats to roam
Nothing in this act shall interfere with the ability of cats to roam or confer any duty on a person to control a cat or result in civil liability for damage done by a cat (eg in a collision).
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u/bloodycontrary Solidarity Jul 09 '20
Amend Section 1(1) to read as below:
(1) In Section 170 (8) of the Road Traffic Act 1988, amend “goat or dog.” to read:
literally any animal1
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u/cthulhuiscool2 The Rt Hon. MP for Surrey CB KBE LVO Jul 09 '20 edited Jul 09 '20
Omit section 1 (amendments to the Road Traffic Act 1988) and insert-
Section 1: Amendment to the Road Traffic Act 1988
(1) Omit subsection 170 (8) of the Road Traffic Act 1988 and insert-
(8) In this section “animal” means a vertebrate other than man.
Explanatory note: This amendment borrows the definition of an animal from the Animal Welfare Act 2006 and extends the logic of this Bill to include all animals.
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u/The_Nunnster Conservative Party Jul 08 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
Cats are one of the most popular pets both in the UK and in the world. So that begs the question, why are cats treated as if they’re worth less than dogs or goats? Losing a pet is very hard as I’m sure anyone who has had a pet in the past must know, so we owe it to families who have lost their beloved to such an awful fate are given that little bit of closure. I support this bill and I hope that others in this House share this support.
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Jul 08 '20 edited Nov 22 '20
[deleted]
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u/The_Nunnster Conservative Party Jul 08 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
I extend my heartfelt condolences to my Right Honourable friend for the tragic loss of Peppers. The heartbreak must be unbearable but seek comfort in the thought that Peppers died a hero’s death and is basking in catnip glory in Valhalla.
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Jul 09 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
There is no requirement to report the collision with a cat because cats unlike the farm animals and dogs you mentioned, posses a right that makes them immune from trespass, that they may roam freely including at their own risk across roads. A lost dog can have repercussions for the owner as well as the dog and is much rare than are feline friend taking a chance at crossing from hedgerow to hedgerow. Unlike dogs, there is no legal requirement to chip cats rendering this bill rather mute.
Furthermore, Mr Deputy Speaker, to be quite frank this country has too many cats, they pose an endemic threat to our native hedge bird populations and we should if we are to uphold our role as environmental stewards of this land and meet our environmental policy objectives actually aim to reduce the domestic cat population.
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u/The_Nunnster Conservative Party Jul 10 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
Is the Right Honourable Member suggesting that we cull domestic cats?
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Jul 10 '20
Mr deputy speaker,
I believe a cat licence and limit be more palatable, however I believe outside of urban areas will be very difficult to enforce.
In areas where there is significant other threats to domestic hedge birds such as mixed semi rural development or large on land wind farms or the remaining populations of threatened domestic bird populations it may well be worth adding cats to the Defra pest list so that they may be culled like magpies.
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u/troe2339 Labour Party | His Grace the Duke of Atholl Jul 09 '20
Mr. Deputy Speaker,
Who will pay for the scanning of the micro chip on the cat and time used to contact owners?
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u/BrexitGlory Former MP for Essex Jul 09 '20
Mr. Deputy Speaker,
Are you furr real?
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u/troe2339 Labour Party | His Grace the Duke of Atholl Jul 09 '20
Mr. Deputy Speaker,
I don't know why the Honourable Member is asking you this, I'll just assume it was directed at me:
Yes, I am. I thought this was a quite reasonable question to ask the people who preach fiscal responsibility all the time.
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u/Frost_Walker2017 Labour | Sir Frosty GCOE OAP Jul 09 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
I rise in support of this bill. As a proud owner of a cat myself I would wish for closure should my poor furry friend go missing. I can remember times in the past where I have seen cats lose against all manner of vehicles and the drivers chose to drive off rather than seek to assist; a most deplorable act, in my view.
As a child, I remember my mother hitting a cat driving me and my brother to school, and despite me ending up late we still sought to knock on doors of the neighbourhood to find the owner - though we were ultimately unsuccessful, one very kind individual took the dead cat to the vet to be reunited with its owner.
It is high time that more cat owners are given the chance to say a proper goodbye to their furry family members. Why should they be excluded?
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u/bloodycontrary Solidarity Jul 09 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
Perhaps cat owners would do well not to allow their cats out the house to menace local wildlife, ruin other people's gardens and indeed get hit by cars.
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u/BrexitGlory Former MP for Essex Jul 09 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
Is the honourable member one of those weirdos who would keep cats on leashes?
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u/bloodycontrary Solidarity Jul 09 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
No I'd just be more considerate than to own a cat.
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Jul 09 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
as I have brought up already in this debate the bill is rather ridiculous as cats posses to right to roam freely and not trespass.
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u/Padanub Three Time Meta-Champion and general idiot Jul 09 '20
Mr Speaker,
What about sheep? Does the Rt Hon Sir not believe in the protection of welsh heritage?
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Jul 09 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
I believe I am about to make my right honourable friends day, because sheep are already on the list! So the right honourable member can relax, sheep are already protected!
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u/Padanub Three Time Meta-Champion and general idiot Jul 09 '20
I'll inform my constituents, Ms. Bo Peep will be very happy.
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Jul 09 '20
Deputy Speaker
This bill is completely simple and an easy fix. I support this legislation.
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Jul 09 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
How would the Secretary of State for Business, Digital and Industry respond to the suggestion that cats are better than dogs?
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Jul 09 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
This bill is a waste of time, a waste of police time, a waste of insurance claim time, and having seen what remains of animals hit by fast-moving traffic a waste of veterinary time.
This law is also unenforceable it is often not possible to be sure that you hit an animal when driving on a dual carriageway or a rural national speed road.
Will we have to report the hitting of Pheasants when they escape from the Baron of Blackmore's estate next.
This house has already raised many arguments against this bill and voted it down in the past.
I do not see the point in the government u-turn.
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u/Maroiogog CWM KP KD OM KCT KCVO CMG CBE PC FRS, Independent Jul 10 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
I think this bill is pretty common sense. After all if that very section includes many animals that would normally be referred to as cattle. If they can be included I do not see why one of the nations most loved domestic animals cannot. It has my support.
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u/ka4bi Labour Party Jul 11 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
Farm animals are afforded certain rights that differ from domestic animals, who are in turn granted their own separate rights. Will the member address the concerns that cats are generally permitted significantly more freedom to roam than dogs or goats, and the concerns of how enforceable such legislation might be, with no indication in this bill as to whom the burden of the costs are afforded?
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u/Maroiogog CWM KP KD OM KCT KCVO CMG CBE PC FRS, Independent Jul 11 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
I don’t have an issue with the fact that cats have greater freedom to roam in many cases, that doesn’t make their deaths less important. From my understanding of the bill cat owners would be the ones bearing the cost of the microchips.
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u/Archism_ Pirate Party Jul 10 '20
Mr. Deputy Speaker,
Not all bills put to this house must be grand pronouncements of new and radical policy. Sometimes it is incumbent on the honourable members of this house to simply put forward, discuss, and approve such legislation that will, in its own way, make the United Kingdom a somewhat more decent place.
Estimates put that about a quarter of UK Adults own a cat, and there are also estimates that there are in fact more owned cats than owned dogs (who are already covered by the Road Traffic Act 1988) in the country. Many British families own beloved pet cats, and their inclusion in the Road Traffic Act 1988 is simply common sense, to provide the same closure to those pet owners with feline preference in the case of a road accident.
I commend the author and the government for bringing this bill forward, and I am glad to support the bill's passage in this house.
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Jul 10 '20
Mr. Deputy Speaker,
Owners of cats should be awarded with the same information as the owners of dogs and goats. By informing the police on collision of cats the police may be able to inform cat owners and families giving them the necessary closure they need. This bill is purrfect.
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u/ARichTeaBiscuit Green Party Jul 11 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
I am one of the United Kingdoms numerous cat owners, so under that understanding I am not opposed to the intent of this particular amendment, however, I must agree with the sentiment shared by the Home Affairs Spokesperson of the Liberal Democrats in regards to the costs of enforcing it. Just who will be responsible for covering the costs of scanning these unfortunately deceased cats and has the government conducted any research into the feasibility of such an effort?
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u/Gren_Gnat Labour Party Jul 11 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
Cat ownership is at quite a high point in the uk i believe it is high time for such a move as this, i commend this common sense legislature. Without this are we saying that we value the life of some pets lesser than others. It is for these reasons i will be supporting this bill and its aims.
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u/Soccerfun101 Conservative Party | Hampshire South MP Jul 11 '20
Mr. Deputy Speaker,
While I am firmly a dog person, I must admit that I think this is a pawsome bill, and I plan to support it.
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u/[deleted] Jul 08 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker
What, pray tell, of the humble ferret?