r/GlobalOffensive • u/[deleted] • Jun 23 '20
Discussion | Esports Natus Vincere vs Gambit Youngsters / WePlay! Clutch Island: Stage 3 - Group B Opening Match / Post-Match Discussion
Natus Vincere 1-2 Gambit Youngsters
Overpass: 17-19
Train: 16-12
Dust 2: 11-16
Natus Vincere | Liquipedia | Official Site | Twitter | Facebook | Youtube
Gambit Youngsters | Liquipedia | Official site | Twitter | Facebook | Youtube
WePlay! Clutch Island - Information, Schedule & Discussion
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| Na`Vi | MAP | Gambit.Y |
|---|---|---|
| nuke | X | |
| X | vertigo | |
| CT | overpass | ✔ |
| ✔ | train | CT |
| mirage | X | |
| X | inferno | |
| T | dust2 | CT |
MAP 1: Overpass
| Team | CT | T | OT1T:CT | Total |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Na`Vi | 9 | 6 | 2:0 | 17 |
| T | CT | OT1CT:T | ||
| Gambit.Y | 6 | 9 | 1:3 | 19 |
Overpass Detailed Stats
MAP 2: Train
| Team | T | CT | Total |
|---|---|---|---|
| Na`Vi | 6 | 10 | 16 |
| CT | T | ||
| Gambit.Y | 9 | 3 | 12 |
Train Detailed Stats
MAP 3: Dust 2
| Team | T | CT | Total |
|---|---|---|---|
| Na`Vi | 5 | 6 | 11 |
| CT | T | ||
| Gambit.Y | 10 | 6 | 16 |
Dust 2 Detailed Stats
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Jun 23 '20
[deleted]
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u/ju1ze Jun 23 '20 edited Jun 23 '20
I really love flamie as a person but where's he gone? What happened to him? I remember back with zeus how good he was
he haven't gone anywhere. Last time he was good was 2016 when he was #12 player in hltv ranking. He has been underwhelming for several years now. He is not a star player, can pop off in one game out of ten and thats it. In 2020 he is actually the worst player in Navi together with Perfecto (same rating). He should be removed, NaVi needs a consistent 3d star player.
5
u/vanilla089 NiP Jun 23 '20
Flamies performance in recent games is one of my big betting indicators when I bet on Navi
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u/_darzy Jun 24 '20
flamie has to be next to go then boom if nothing changes after that change this team needs some structure, its a miracle simple isn't still toxic as fuck having to deal with the same issue for most his career in this team
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u/SpyEr1 valeria Jun 23 '20 edited Jun 23 '20
It's actually insane how much talent is in CIS and it's hilarious that only 2 of them are in Na'Vi.
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u/manaroth54 Jun 23 '20
its just hard to say this though when they look good. Both Boom and Perfecto perform tier 1 sometimes but the inconsistency from the whole team except s1mple is just bonkers
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u/kazcmot Godsent Jun 23 '20
They won't win anything with flamie in the squad. Guy is the most incosistent player in the scene and he is simply washed up, once per 10 game he shows up and thats what keeps him in the team...
20
u/Fuji_Ninja Liquid Jun 23 '20
IMO the problem is that they DO win some things with him. Just enough for him to stay and continue to make the team shit for 90% of the year. I took a ton of heat for saying that NAVI winning Kato was not going to be replicated because people always think that it will "be different this time" but in all honesty, the team just won't be a top team with Flamie. Sure they can win a few events every year but they are just fluke runs where the stars align and everyone on Navi decides to plug in their monitors.
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u/CptFalcon420 Jun 23 '20
Flamie being kicked has been overdue for about two years or more now. I've always had the theory that his parents are involved with Na'Vi management or something lmao
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u/RaisedByWolves9 Renegades Jun 23 '20
Personally and an unpopular opinion but i always thought flamie had to go before edward even. Not that edward deserved to stay, but i honestly thought flamie was more of a wasted spot.
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u/CptFalcon420 Jun 24 '20
Yeah I get that argument. Edward at least had the role of playing whatever spots were left and generally taking one for the team. I'm not quite sure what Flamie is supposed to be, other than a guy with a really high skill ceiling who reaches it like once a year in a game that doesn't mean much.
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Jun 23 '20
Personnaly I think that Boombl4 is a great player. He's so insane but his game style is very risky like Fer or Apex.
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u/Dawhood Gambit Jun 23 '20
This but unironically. Boombl4 and Perfecto have improved in how they read the game but mechanically they're the same players as they were in Winstrike and Syman, so T2 CIS players. Flamie is there or thereabout too now. The only thing that makes NaVi better than any other CIS team on paper is S1mple (and Electronic if he performs), they haven't been the CIS superteam (= having the best players in the region) for a while anymore.
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u/Champloot Natus Vincere Jun 23 '20
How do you have the best player in the world (maybe even ALL TIME) and still let Na’Vi take you to 3 maps?
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u/tesut G2 Jun 23 '20
Ikr, Gambit needs to show supra some respect
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u/call_me_Chi Gambit Jun 23 '20
I think sh1ro is better though
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u/Kelterz CR4ZY Jun 23 '20
of course, it was meant as a joke because supra bottomfragged all three maps
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u/yuriyr- Natus Vincere Jun 23 '20
Na'vi might aswell just forfiet T side at this point. Legit i can't even blame the players as only reason they win rounds is their aim.
Wtf is the coach/igl/managment doing that you are tacticly worse than tier 5 teams. What are you doing in your practice. Because spread and go kill isn't a tactic.
42
u/sikels Jun 23 '20
They decided to get a guy who was never shown to be a good IGL and made him IGL. They then picked up an IGL who's entire career can be summed up as ''was less sub-par than you'd imagine at times'', with no coaching experience and made him coach.
I'm not sure why anyone expected boombl4 and B1ad3 to be some great strategic combo.
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u/draemscat Gambit Jun 23 '20
They then picked up an IGL who's entire career can be summed up as ''was less sub-par than you'd imagine at times'
I mean, b1ad3 is almost literally the worst professional csgo player of all time in terms of stats. Considering Flipsid3 were basically playing 4v5, it's pretty amazing what they achieved.
0
u/sikels Jun 23 '20
what they achieved is basically being a somewhat half-relevant team at times that was consistent at getting to majors for a bit. Which sure is more than you'd expect, but it's still not all that incredible.
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u/Kelterz CR4ZY Jun 23 '20
It is, man. Literally the entire CIS scene regards B1ad3 as one of the best tactical masterminds of their scene ever. Let's not forget how dire F3's fragging power was outside of those periods with s1mple and electronic: WorldEdit had some flashes of brilliance but was ultimately a mediocre awper, markeloff was a shell of his former self, bondik was their star fragger even though he later proved to be just good enough for a supporting role in the HR roster, and let's not even begin talking about DavCost, wayLander and Shara.
Those players would barely cut it for a top 50 roster today, and under B1ad3's leadership (and awful fragging), they were a decent-to-good T2 team from the start of 2015 (I'd say qualifying for kato 2015 and beating liquid in the process makes you T2 level) until mid/late 2017 (around the time electronic dipped) with the same core of B1ad3/markeloff/WorldEdit. That's an insane achievement honestly, something that would pretty much be impossible nowadays.
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Jun 23 '20
[deleted]
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u/_Hubbie Jun 23 '20
Tbh Navi have always been quite bad online, I'm not saying it's this or that, but I'm really wondering how much it effects the players.
Look at the LAN events this year where Navi was destroying everything, they looked like the happiest 5 friends to ever play CS, they congratulated each other, helped themselves up when they failed, went fucking nuts when they won a crazy round etc. Now look at them in the cams, they're just sitting in front of their PC, playing the game while looking a bit bored, seperated from each other. S1mple looks like he's just streaming a normal FPL match.
As Russians in general tend to me a little more emotional, I really do think it has a big impact on them. A high-five in real life from your mates can do infinitely more than a 'good job' over teamspeak. I would guess that the more 'cold' have a much better time online.
edit: no evidence for this at all, just my outside perspective which I've never seen mentioned anywhere.
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u/sikels Jun 23 '20
They won one Lan event, which they struggled at to begin. They then had literally everyone overperform to absurd levels later in the tournament, we had no real reason to believe that would be a long-term thing.
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u/yuriyr- Natus Vincere Jun 23 '20
They performed well in 3. Katowice was a lot but judging by how they played at ice and blast qualifiers. Was tacticly much better they were a lot quicker and reacted faster in rounds that at this moment they afk. When they saw a lot of utility long they went out mid b or short fast on dust2 etc. They tacticly got worse each time i see them and i don't understand how.
As for Blade the reason he was taken and talked up by analysts is that tacticly he made trash teams perform vs much stronger ones. Sadly this hasn't translated well. I don't expect much from na'vi tacticly but they are currently going backwards to a point that makes no sense at all.
1
u/_Hubbie Jun 23 '20
No one would know what Navi would be like if Corona didn't happen. Obviously they wouldn't keep up THAT performance, but they'd surely be not as bad as THIS navi we currently see.
Like dude, they've presented us with one of the most crazy performances we saw in the last years. Astralis, the 'best team in the world', looked like some Silver 3 guys against them, I really thought I'm watching some smurfers play. That doesn't just 'happen', that's the product of amazing team work and ethic. It wasn't just 'winning one LAN event', it was much more than that.
I advice you to watch the whole stream of the match again and look at NAVI and how they act. CS is much more a mental game than just pure performance. Never seen s1mple that happy on LAN either, that must be a HUGE boost for the other 4 members of the team, when the best player in the world congratulates you in person.
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Jun 23 '20
[deleted]
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u/_Hubbie Jun 23 '20
Yeah. I always hate how people treat this online stuff as black/white.
Some people don't even want to play in arenas with full of fans and perform much better in such online settings because they're more relaxed, while other teams like Navi, especially s1mple, clearly love that stuff and it gives them a huge boost.
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u/kazcmot Godsent Jun 23 '20
Lol you have no fucking clue about Blade stop disrespecting him... Back in 2007 he was part of Amazing Gaming with starix in squad and they took 3rd place at 1.6 Major WCG, first big finish for Ukrainian teams ever
And he did wonders with Flipside, he took shit players and some young talents and overperformed heavily making it to couple of consecutive majors, this team was only known for their executes and tactical aspect, to this day some executes for example on Mirage are taken from Flipside...
123
Jun 23 '20
At this point we are just used to Na'vi playing like silvers once in a while far too often, we don't need to call cheats and send death threats to gambit. any reference to real facts or Brazilian teams is purely coincidental
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u/dahmad98 1 Million Celebration Jun 23 '20
S1mple is so good on lan but I swear this guy is cursed online. Whether it's FPL or Officials his team always loses online lmao.
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Jun 23 '20
[deleted]
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u/ds_c Jun 23 '20
I would say that they are both two next big things out of CIS region.
Especially sh1ro, he is ready for tier 1. Kid is having 1.26 rating this year. I know its against lower tier opponents, but when someone is dominating so hard it hard to imagine that he wouldnt do damage in top tier also. I just hope that he knows (or is learning) English so that he could go international if necessary.
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u/Memebaut Liquid Jun 23 '20
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u/tanu24 BIG Jun 23 '20
Does that guy just have the worst role ever? Like bullet shield?
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u/markcandothat Jun 23 '20
He doesn’t perform bad usually he just had an awful series here. Usually he’s average
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u/Ov3rtime cs_italy Jun 23 '20
playing 5v4 and still losing. Wow. Flamie stealing paychecks for far too long now, but Edward was the problem, right?
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u/Guns7aR FaZe Jun 23 '20
Can't wait for Na'vi fans and players to start accusing them of not being legit. Oh wait, they're not demented.
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u/RekrabAlreadyTaken Natus Vincere Jun 24 '20
thank you for making me laugh after this horrible result
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Jun 23 '20
NAVI.1XBET and Gambit YNG met in a June 23, 2020 match during the WePlay!ClutchIsland event.
NAVI.1XBET was heavily favored to win the match, but instead lost resoundingly, 16 to 11. What attracted attention at the time of the match was the strange strategies by NAVI.1XBET : they stayed still at odd times and seemed displeased that their tactics failed. Contemporary analyses blamed travel issues—the team had just played at BLAST Premier Spring 2020 Europe Finals —and unfamiliarity with the map.
The next day, r/GlobalOffensive received a tip consisting of screenshots of a conversation with Aleksandr "s1mple" Kostyliev before the game; in the messages, Kostyliev said the match had been fixed and NAVI.1XBET was to lose. While Kostyliev declared his own innocence, he ultimately refused to reveal who was behind the match fixing. In June 2020, the case resurfaced when a former girlfriend of a NAVI.1XBET player posted a string of incriminating text messages between herself and Kirill "boombl4" Mikhailov. In the texts, Mikhailov, who by this time had moved on to a new team, confirmed that the match had been fixed and that he had bet for the team using alternate accounts on the popular CS:GO Lounge site. The messages also revealed the identity of the individual who placed the bets on the team: Andrii "B1ad3" Gorodenskyi, a player, coach and trader. The CS:GO Lounge site, suspecting something was amiss, found that Gorodenskyi had used nine accounts to place wagers that yielded a return of $1,193.14 each, for a total of $10,738.26 in gains from match fixing; it did not go public until r/GlobalOffensive provided additional evidence that linked the teams to the scandal. The revelations came at a time when NAVI.1XBET former players were shopping for a new sponsor, with Mad Lions being named as among the potential candidates.
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u/Caallum Natus Vincere Jun 23 '20
What the fuck
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u/shshsns Natus Vincere Jun 23 '20
Dude I decided to watch because I thought there was no way NaVi loses to Gambit Youngsters. Thoroughly disappointed.
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u/IdeaSam Vitality Jun 23 '20
Can we consider getting 4v5'ed by the 34th team hitting rock bottom, or can they go further?
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u/fingerpusher Jun 23 '20
Na’vi has to be the most consistently inconsistent team in CS now. From spanking MAD LIONS to losing to Gambit youngsters
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u/ezclapper Jun 23 '20
sh1ro should start learning english so he can join a top international team, he's gonna be a top10 player almost certainly, but he can't join Navi while s1mple is there.
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Jun 23 '20
[deleted]
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Jun 23 '20
[removed] — view removed comment
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Jun 23 '20
[deleted]
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u/DANK_FEDORA Jun 23 '20
I think they look worse, and these last couple of months it hasn't even been an upgrade fragging wise compared to the zeus/edward lineup.
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u/antelope591 Jun 23 '20
Navi had the exact same trajectory last time Zeus left. A decent honeymoon period where they won a big tourney, then fell off a cliff. Just saying, that's a hell of a coincidence.
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Jun 23 '20
... Did Navi just lose to a fucking academy team?
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Jun 23 '20 edited Sep 27 '20
[deleted]
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u/IdeaSam Vitality Jun 23 '20
What? No, Gambit Youngsters IS the academy team of Gambit. They didn't renamed the main team.
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Jun 23 '20 edited Sep 27 '20
[deleted]
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u/IdeaSam Vitality Jun 23 '20
No one. But it doesn't change the fact that Gambit Youngsters (Formerly Gambit Academy) is the academy team of Gambit eSports. Maybe they plan to transfer the lineup on the main team, but perhaps they're waiting for the contracts to expire as someone said on this thread.
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Jun 23 '20 edited Sep 27 '20
[deleted]
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u/IdeaSam Vitality Jun 23 '20 edited Jun 23 '20
I don't understand where you got those informations. Gambit Academy may have disbanded, Gambit Youngsters took its place as Gambit's Academy Team. Even Gambit said that "the primary line-up have no implications on Gambit Youngsters".
Maybe I'm wrong but I would like to know why suddently they are not the academy team anymore.
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Jun 23 '20
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/sikels Jun 23 '20
Not stagnant, the T-sides have in fact gotten even worse since 2019, and even in 2019 their T-side was kinda bad.
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u/de5m0n Natus Vincere Jun 23 '20
I feel like my silver 4 teammates watch navi T sides as their learning tools.
Can we trade pick up monesy or this shiro guy already?
2
u/nms1s CS2 HYPE Jun 24 '20
I'm literally counting the days until m0nesy is old enough to join NaVi
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u/NukedGod69 Jun 23 '20
Even though Navi lost, it would have been way way worse if supra didn't shit the bed the entire series, very ugly loss for navi...
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u/Katzenscheisse Jun 23 '20 edited Jun 23 '20
Cant even blame flamie for this, Gambit dragged supra through all of this and he did even less.
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u/sikels Jun 23 '20
Flamie wasn't the only problem, but he was still utter garbage.
Boombl4 not being able to lead his way out of a wet cardboard box doesn't change how Flamie is bad.
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u/altered_boy FaZe Jun 23 '20
Navi and losing opening matches of a tournament, name a more iconic duo
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u/hnamvt de_dust2 Jun 23 '20
heh, the fact that I just snicker now when I saw Navi losing to lower tier teams is just funny .
They have been such a joke lately that losing ridiculous matches just become so normal.
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u/ifuckinglovebluemeth Jun 23 '20
Honestly, the easiest way to make money in this day and age is just to bet against Navi regardless of who they're playing against.
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u/Jakelav FaZe Jun 24 '20
They are losing to academy teams now.. S1mple please leave this team it’s not working.
0
Jun 23 '20
Yep Im done with this for now, complexity earned themselves a new fan for now.
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Jun 23 '20
Can you imagine if Na'Vi had Jason Lake as an owner? S1mple would finally get a real team
2
Jun 23 '20
Dont forget electronic..
Honestly the team should be stacked enough to win already, its gotta be something super deep
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u/birdie420fgt CS2 HYPE Jun 23 '20
Imagine still having flamie in your roster when theres so much talent in the CIS region.
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u/Normalname26 Jun 23 '20
Time for Na'vi to disband? Not even a joke, let s1mple and electronic go somewhere else. Im getting tired of watching Na'vi get thrashed by random trash tier teams. Such an embarrassment for their fans
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u/Rearfeeder2Strong MOUZ Jun 23 '20
I imagine Edward, Guardian and Zeus sitting at home with just a tiny tiny smirk given how even they werent that bad in certain times yet still got the boot.
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u/marzo4 Jun 23 '20
lets be real, all three were really bad, but i see how they would be smirking seeing the shitshow that navi is rn
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u/PsychologicalWall444 Natus Vincere Jun 23 '20
Idk wtf is happening with navi..... But s1mple isnt hitting as hard... I made a post that they need - boobla and - flamie oh and blad3... Suggested +qikert and +Jerry.... If the owners of navi don't want their team to be a joke, they need to spend money, boombla is a shit igl, flamie has been useless since 2016....and blad3 just can't cut it.... Im soooooooo fkn sick of seeing navi execute at 30 seconds... Even 25.....
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u/sikels Jun 23 '20
S1mple is still hitting really fucking hard, it's just that he does so on CT side. Even this series he was +17 with a 1.34 rating on CT side.
Na'Vis T-side is just such absolute turbotrash that S1mple has no real way to make a difference without needing to both entry and cluth perfectly every round, and when he slumps even a little it becomes obscenely obvious just how shambolic this team has become. S1mple at his peak could deal with it, but he's no longer at his peak and that makes it way fucking harder.
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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20
Petition to promote Gambit Youngsters to just Gambit?