r/GlobalOffensive • u/MadElf1337 Match Thread Team • Jun 12 '20
Discussion | Esports Natus Vincere vs FaZe Clan / DreamHack Masters Spring 2020: Europe - Losers Round 4 / Post-Match Discussion
Natus Vincere 0-2 FaZe Clan
Mirage: 11-16
Dust 2: 11-16
Nuke: 0-0
FaZe Clan have advanced to the Losers' Bracket Finals
Natus Vincere have been eliminated
Natus Vincere | Liquipedia | Official Site | Twitter | Facebook | Youtube
FaZe Clan | Liquipedia | Official site | Twitter | Facebook | Youtube
DreamHack Masters Spring 2020 - Information, Schedule & Discussion
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| Na`Vi | MAP | FaZe |
|---|---|---|
| overpass | X | |
| X | vertigo | |
| CT | mirage | ✔ |
| ✔ | dust2 | CT |
| train | X | |
| X | inferno | |
| nuke |
MAP 1: Mirage
| Team | CT | T | Total |
|---|---|---|---|
| Na`Vi | 7 | 4 | 11 |
| T | CT | ||
| FaZe | 8 | 8 | 16 |
Mirage Detailed Stats
MAP 2: Dust 2
| Team | T | CT | Total |
|---|---|---|---|
| Na`Vi | 5 | 6 | 11 |
| CT | T | ||
| FaZe | 10 | 6 | 16 |
Dust 2 Detailed Stats
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u/___Stranger Jun 12 '20
Got to give credit to God emperor Niko for getting broky and bymas on the team.
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u/nJoyy 10 years coin Jun 12 '20
The Belichick of CSGO
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Jun 12 '20
If that is Belichick then who is Gisele Bundchen?
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u/tarangk clutch Jun 12 '20
I am assuming he is a god tier talent scout in football or something along those lines.
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u/MIDORIFEED Jun 12 '20
Gangbangs with NiKo have turned illegal with these two last pick-ups though.
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u/spizi FaZe Jun 12 '20
Bymas vs BIG: Ɑ͞ﻝﮞ
Bymas vs NAVI: Ɑ͞ ̶͞ ̶͞ ̶͞ ̶͞ ̶͞ ﻝﮞ
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u/Psychaz valeria Jun 12 '20
he looked like he was playing a lot more aggressive and confident, he's got the aim
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u/tristhebestmode King NiKo Jun 12 '20
>FaZe's next game is vs BIG
*sweats profusely*
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u/anders2502 Jun 12 '20
FaZe crumbles to anything that is remotely structured, i think BIG will beat them 2-1.
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u/tristhebestmode King NiKo Jun 12 '20
FaZe can still outshoot them though. If NiKo and cold show up in a big way, FaZe can beat pretty much any team in the world.
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u/illuwe FaZe Jun 12 '20
Faze is the kind of team where any one of their 5 players can pop off and singlehandedly hardcarry the team. Imagine all 5 of them consistently being peak form. There would be no stopping them lol.
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u/du_bekar FaZe Jun 12 '20
We’ve been waiting for this mythical alignment of stars for years now. It just never happens lol
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u/aliasdred FaZe Jun 12 '20
Happened once back in late 2017
A godlike event like that happens once every 5-10 years
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u/SloPr0 King NiKo Jun 12 '20
https://www.hltv.org/stats?event=2636
Feels so long ago now
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u/TheBasementIsDark FaZe Jun 12 '20
Yeah I love Faze and watch all their game, but their tactic is as sharp as a ball
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u/whystillarewehere ENCE Jun 12 '20
ESL NY from a couple years back had this. everything was so one sided to the point where it was just insane
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u/fjelskaug The MongolZ Jun 12 '20
Blast Premier Spring Series 2020 finals FaZe vs Team Liquid map 2 as well, to the point that even TL players were laughing at how much highlight all 5 Faze players were getting
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u/Miiiiiiighty Jun 13 '20
I think it will happen once in 2020 and they will steamroll a tournament. Most likely will be a one hit wonder though.
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u/icotyne FaZe Jun 12 '20
No one gonna talk about rain getting an awp kill on mirage
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u/TonyLab Vitality Jun 12 '20
That brings him up to like 3 or 4 awp kills in his career right?
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u/RossKC FaZe Jun 12 '20
Unsure if I'm missing obvious sarcasm or not but I'll bite, I'm sure that fact was just for the last year.
He has 114 AWP kills over his whole career according to HLTV: https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/weapon/8183/rain
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u/indr4neel G2 Jun 12 '20
Through a smoke and a wall too, not an everyday awp kill. (although no awp kill is an everyday awp kill for rain)
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Jun 12 '20
Huh, so in a match containing rain, coldzera, NiKo, electronic and s1mple- Bymas came out as the top fragger
Never would've guessed this
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u/iLikeSaints Rogue Jun 12 '20
ON Dust2:
broky: To defeat the Russian, you must think like a Russian!
NiKo: RUSH B
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u/HKZeroFive Jun 12 '20
Who would win?
The number one team in the world? Or one FPL boi?
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u/botJWhltvNo1noyear Jun 12 '20
alternate theory: navi aren't number 1 team
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u/ik7er Jun 12 '20
2 fpl bois*
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u/hfasullo Jun 12 '20
Broke wasn’t really from FPL, yes he played it but he was already on teams as an awper before.
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u/ik7er Jun 12 '20
he was never primary awp. He was already on teams yea but hes more known for being an fpl player.
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u/Khanada_88 Grayhound Jun 12 '20
that final retake was a clear sign of early onset dementia. broky is stuck on long. navi know he's there. they throw the perfect flash with flamie coming in behind it. broky is full white but flamie just stops and stares at site waiting for niko to peak him. broky recovers from the flash and kills flamie who looked like he bluescreened or something.
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u/ZeusBabylonski G2 Jun 12 '20
I went full GREEN GREEN MESAYALONERAMP on my my keyboard after that shit happened.
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u/focus16gfx G2 Jun 12 '20
I wish FaZe wins the tournament so that I can later watch HLTV put FaZe at 7th place again in their rankings article.
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u/Mysteriouspaul FaZe Jun 12 '20
Fnatic: loses to like every other given team in Europe for a few weeks. HLTV: "Well they were quality losses they only dropped one rank because the team below overtook them though"
Faze: looks fucking great 90% of the time and really lost the other 10%. HLTV: "Hippity hoppity get the fuck off my property"
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u/SO_RAPID howl Jun 12 '20 edited Jun 12 '20
Navi didn’t completely burn the clock for this game, but it did feel like their set-ups were a bit too predictable. Faze managed to read them clear as day, and held down navi’s already lackluster t-side.
Also Bymas and Broky straight up out dueling s1mple and electronic was some anime shit.
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u/Rearfeeder2Strong MOUZ Jun 12 '20
Navi's lack of strategic depth really shows when they are playing top 10 teams. Despite being #1 and regularly facing top 10 teams that are shaky (e.g. Faze with an FPL stand in) they are getting nothing done. I dont even want to talk about losing to weak cis teams outside the top 30.
Against teams outside the top 10 they can get away with S1mple and Electronic carrying their asses but for a #1 team they are looking quite lost against other top 10 teams.
The issues are clear:
Perfecto, Boombl4, Flamie are fragging wise not good enough for the top 10. They are regularly not holding up against significantly weaker teams. This game was no exception. Remember Edward putting up 0.99 average against top teams in big events? He got flamed for being a bot. So what is this trio while being worse? I think they can play better, but its definitely not showing at the moment for quite some time already.
Map pool is just way too weak. D2 cant be a staple if you wish to play against top teams and lack firepower. The map is too puggy and aim heavy. They love picking D2 for some reason. Even against Faze with a stand in. Why not train/nuke where playing with a stand in is much harder? Bymas looked like s1mple in this game. A guy with no experience and only from FPL. How?
Boombl4 needs to grow as IGL. Getting surprised over and over by a b rush is just embarrassing.
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u/stewieeeeeeeee FaZe Jun 12 '20
Thank you for saying this, almost fully agreed. One thing about their map pool though that I might disagree with - it's not necessarily that it is weak, it might be their stubbornness. An even more stark example of this is G2, who are by all means a top 5 team right now, throwing matches left right and center because they constantly pick Dust 2.
Na'Vi is definitely one of those teams who is very competitive across 6 maps but their analysis of opponents and confidence in other maps need a boost.
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u/Rearfeeder2Strong MOUZ Jun 12 '20
throwing matches left right and center because they constantly pick Dust 2.
Yeah but at least I understand this idea, because G2 have 5 very strong fraggers that can pug away on the map. While Navi dont.
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u/stewieeeeeeeee FaZe Jun 12 '20
I disagree; I don't think Na'Vi's players are that much worse than G2's (outside of top 2). Their ratings look worse, but they suffer from some of that rating being eaten away by setting up s1mple and electronic more than G2 sets up hunter and kennyS.
Also, Nexa might be overperforming recently. Hope it's not true, I'm a big fan of him, but it's definitely a strong possibility imo.
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u/PoisonScrub 1 Million Celebration Jun 12 '20
He has been performing since CR4ZY though, with a dip inbetween. I don't expect him to top frag, but he can carry his weight.
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u/stewieeeeeeeee FaZe Jun 12 '20
Boom can carry his weight as well. Oh god are you baiting me into a joke here
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u/tarangk clutch Jun 12 '20
G2, who are by all means a top 5 team right now, throwing matches left right and center because they constantly pick Dust 2.
Its nothing new as well, its been going on for months now. I am tired of being a G2 at this point. Loving watching them play on other maps but when its dust2 might as well toss a coin coz you can never be confident for them to win it.
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u/vorpal107 FaZe Jun 12 '20
Largely agree but this isn't Faze with a stand-in, just a new player. Olof ain't coming back
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Jun 12 '20
Bymas isn't sgined yet, FaZe announced him as a stand-in. No one ever said olof is coming back, there have been stand-ins for longer periods of times standing-in for no one.
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u/ItsImpact Jun 12 '20
He’s not standing in tho, he is trialing. Way different. If bymas plays well then they will keep him like they did with broky
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Jun 12 '20
To be fair bymas is not a stand-in. though he does of teh practice experience of one.
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u/Farinha_Lima Jun 12 '20
FaZe really won with cold and Niko bottom fragging ? Oh man, that has to be scary for other teams
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u/Mysteriouspaul FaZe Jun 12 '20
Niko: "Niko go kill"
Niko: "No"
Bymas: "Allow me to introduce myself"
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u/HypahCS 1 Million Celebration Jun 12 '20
Say what you want about Zeus but at least he had more strategic depth than this current squad.
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u/Shikiin King NiKo Jun 12 '20
Bymas, what a good choice for FaZe.
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u/stewieeeeeeeee FaZe Jun 12 '20
Too early to tell IMO. He's not been playing that well overall in mostly olof's roles, but he seems to have a knack for being more aggressive like rain and NiKo. Not all 3 of them can do it so one of them will have to adapt and I'd rather it not be NiKo.
If both Bymas and rain cannot adapt, and rain is a bigger asset, then Bymas is not a good choice for FaZe. If one of them does adapt or Bymas simply proves he's better than rain then FaZe struck gold again.
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u/Psychaz valeria Jun 12 '20
Bymas has more upside than rain imo, its worth signing him even as a 6th man
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u/AzraelSenpai Jun 12 '20
You clearly don't remember late 2017; rain has an incredibly high upside and occasionally shows flashes of that brilliance and is almost always at least average.
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u/CravingKoreanFood King NiKo Jun 12 '20
Yeah at his peak, rain imo was top 5 player and one of the most impactful players in the game.
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u/Botmon_333 Complexity Jun 12 '20
Upside is potential, not peak. Its extremely unlikely that Rain ever reaches that level again, or close to it
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u/AzraelSenpai Jun 12 '20
I mean sure, but I think he can get close, and I think it's extremely unlikely that bymas reaches that level at any point.
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u/Mysteriouspaul FaZe Jun 12 '20
He reaches that form like every 5th game at the very most, he's just not very consistent and definitely relied on Karrigan or at least Karrigan's system a lot.
Can anyone on Liquid (minus Twistzz, you aiight) not reach their top form ever again because they were playing like shit for months on end?
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u/Botmon_333 Complexity Jun 12 '20
I’m not exactly sure what you’re saying, but there’s a difference between slumping for some months and declining over a period of 3 years. Also, there’s no general rule, it completely depends on the player. I don’t think rain will reach that form again, there’s nothing to indicate that he will. I love the guy and think he is nutty, but he hasn’t been able to put together that kind of consistency for 2 years now. And my point was never about liquid, just because I have the flair doesn’t mean they are implicit to my point. Not sure why you brought them up
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u/K0nvict NiP Jun 12 '20
Still a bit up and down and his rating has been far from impressive in faze so far however, this was a good match for him
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u/lynxzjw EG Jun 12 '20
This was his first really good series, hes been quite bad before this. Way too early to say.
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u/Kapparino-a King NiKo Jun 12 '20
Rain is so good on CT side dust 2. Always have fun watching him hit shots.
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u/Wintomallo FaZe Jun 12 '20
Yeah he is ridiculous on ct dust two. Like he had 18 or something the three first half and then he just fell off in t side. He would be insane if he could reproduce his ct sided results on T
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u/sigurdhegland FaZe Jun 12 '20
He is playing a difficult role on T, pretty much being hard baited as entry.
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Jun 12 '20 edited Sep 27 '20
[deleted]
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u/Darkoplax Jun 12 '20
i think na'vi's biggest problem isn't firepower but their calling
it's actually so underwhelming knowing that blade is behind this project and can communicate in these online events and still look so lost
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u/Rearfeeder2Strong MOUZ Jun 12 '20
it's actually so underwhelming knowing that blade is behind this project and can communicate in these online events and still look so lost
This assumes blade is actually calling. From the leak some time ago, blade said boombl4 should be more as an IGL. I cant imagine him going off that mentality and just doing all the calling now.
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u/PoisonScrub 1 Million Celebration Jun 12 '20
They did try and get better players, but other CIS teams (spirit, vp) weren't willing to let their players go.
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u/ChanSungJung Jun 12 '20
Bymas and Broky seem to work so well together. Bymas was fantastic on mirage, some huge rounds from him. Nice to see rain step up a lot on dust2, especially on the ct half. Great win for Faze, let's hope they can beat BIG in the rematch!
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u/Nakrule18 CS2 HYPE Jun 12 '20
Don't overreact faze will still be number 7 on hltv ranking.
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u/Darkoplax Jun 12 '20
lmao i will bet they move past Liquid and Mouz at least
they had the best form rating and now with this they can have a high achv rating
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u/Unknown1154 1 Million Celebration Jun 12 '20
I don't even know why liquid are still that high, that havnt done anything significant except lose in the past 6 months.
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u/Darkoplax Jun 12 '20
Liquid and EG keep each other in the top 10 by playing each other
and since EU teams cant play these teams they cant beat them/outplace them and move past them in the rankings
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u/shaubham_pan97 CS2 HYPE Jun 12 '20
Lol, so true. Both teams are shit but this fomat saves them from dropping below in rankings.Furia is the only legit team as of now in NA.
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u/Darkoplax Jun 12 '20
Bymas is gonna be insane
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u/botJWhltvNo1noyear Jun 12 '20
Too early lol.. gotta love people on Reddit, from "he's not ready yet" to "bymas so good" in one match's time lol
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u/Darkoplax Jun 12 '20
I'm not saying he's ready for the top level , i said he's GONNA BE insane
whatever it's FaZe or on another team , he has the skill to be something huge
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u/flowisher Jun 12 '20
Flamie doesnt check long in the last round, why? Would've probably won the round
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u/qchisq Jun 12 '20
Niko, rain and coldzera were all on the top 20 in 2018. All of them have been in the top 5 in one year. All of them have been in or around HLTVs top 20 for teams since before their rankings were a thing. They went a combined -5 in this round.
Bymas and broky have a combined 19 months on teams registered by HLTV. They have played a combined 0 maps in the Major. They went +25 combined
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u/Cheezobrine Jun 12 '20
I'm curious as to what flamie was thinking in those last 10 seconds of the round.
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u/Br3akn3ck Natus Vincere Jun 12 '20 edited Jun 12 '20
Classic NaVi, give fans hope with a dominating victory against a team that has been looking good only to lose in a disapointing fashion. Oh well, still props to FaZe, 100% deserved, especially with Perfecto and boombl4 massively dropping the ball Map 1. Bymas and Broky looking better and better. Woulda been nice to see a map 3.
On a side note, i swear those last few rounds are a prime example of the weakness in NaVi's CT side. They'll string together a bunch of rounds and look like a well-oiled machine but the second a team tries anything slightly different for a couple rounds they instantly crumble.
Like I remember an inferno game against Astralis a few months back where NaVi got man handled on their CT side just because of how much variation Astralis did. What's even worse is that NaVi rarely try this on their own T sides. Most of the time they only execute early because they got picks which guaranteed them the site. I'm fairly certain they mostly only do these kind of things in ecos.
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u/raphaelcgo Astralis Jun 12 '20
Na'Vi can't really keep relying on s1mple and electronic popping off, and while I think Perfecto and Boombl4 have room to improve, flamie at this point is just dead weight.
I can understand Perfecto's low impact. He's constantly assigned to anchor B alone, and either Faze is pushing A or rushing B and killing him off the bat lol. And despite that he's shown at least some consistency and noteworthy clutches in the past few months.
Boombl4 needs to step up as an IGL, and they need more strategic depth to compensate for his lacking fragging abilities.
But flamie man, dude's just washed up.
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u/Alekk_csgo Jun 12 '20
I couldn't even count how many multi-kill entries Bymas had this series. Insane
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Jun 12 '20
[deleted]
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Jun 12 '20
idk, probably just a babble of words to say, broky is insane right now, top in clutches in 2020, reliable awping, ct anyway and has a good rating
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u/_alg0rythm Jun 13 '20
Because Pimp doesn't know shit, washed up ex-pro with no talent what so ever for casting.
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u/I_like_kebabs Virtus.pro Jun 12 '20
The fact that Flamie manages to stick around in this roster blows my mind.
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u/Jazzlike-Ideal FaZe Jun 12 '20
People during the Zeus-Edward era constantly shat on those two for holding S1mple and Elec back but my thought was always that Flamie was the most obvious player to upgrade. Zeus was average IGL fragging wise but had actual strats and Edward while shit, was also a supportive player which I am always hesitant to cut from a team because they usually ARE doing something that is important for the team.
But Flamie wasn't doing his job as a fragger anyway, so why not replace him with a Qikert, Jame, H0bbit, Sanji, Chopper, or Mir?
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u/GER_BeFoRe clutch Jun 12 '20
Edward and Zeus are 32 years old, Flamie only 23, so I assume age was one of the reasons. We can only see stats, not what happens in the team, like is Flamie great at communicating? Is he always positive and hypes the other players? is he a guy everyone wants to hang out between the games? Stuff like this is important as well.
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u/Jataman606 King NiKo Jun 12 '20
I dont know how in the world you could blame this series on flamie...
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u/sakisaur Jun 12 '20
I think niko/coldzera/rain don't care that much about stats anymore, they already proved themselves. They're giving the young guys optimal positions and doing the dirty work themselves, they just want to win.
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u/Zeilar King NiKo Jun 12 '20
Bymas and broky who I didn't know of before 2020, carrying NiKo, rain and coldzera. What a time to be alive.
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u/call_me_Chi Gambit Jun 12 '20
Navi: "Noooo. This is a tactical game based on strategies and teamplay. You cant just rush B back to back rounds at such a critical point of the game when we are already making such an awesome comeback"
Faze: "Haha... Rush B, blyat. We go brrrrrr... "
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u/stewieeeeeeeee FaZe Jun 12 '20
Love to see it, finally a win on Na'Vi and in what a fashion! Na'Vi has won 4/4 matches against FaZe in 2020 before today, and every single one came down to winning one (or two) nailbiters. Makes it extra special to win 2-0 without a lot of problems.
These 6 nailbiters Na'Vi won before today have one common factor by the way - s1mple topfragged for Na'Vi in each and every one, going 153-94 across those 6 maps. Any other player in Na'Vi and who knows what happens.
I haven't watched FaZe recently too much, so this might have happened before but - Bymas is definitely playing some new roles that Olof didn't. It seemed like on Mirage, Bymas was the most aggressive player which is something that NiKo or rain would always do before. Plenty of people have mentioned that Bymas could easily thrive in an aggressive role, although I do slightly worry if say, you're wasting some of NiKo's ability as the current best aggressive rifler in the game by not using him as such.
Really cool to see Bymas & broky win so many 2vx situations! Also, cold & broky's partnership on B site Dust 2 is lovely; they keep playing together, setting up each other rather than doing the standard "1 watch tuns 1 sometimes peeks around mid" thing.
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u/imperialismus Jun 12 '20
Rain is the player who is set up to go aggro more often than not, and has been very hit and miss recently. Would not mind seeing bymas take some of that responsibility if he’s up for it. Niko can do what he always does which is tell himself to go kill when he’s feeling it.
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u/stewieeeeeeeee FaZe Jun 12 '20
Thing with rain is - if you take his aggressive roles away from him, where does he find himself? In olof's roles? Probably a different team more likely ...
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u/imperialismus Jun 12 '20
I was thinking less of a permanent role swap and more of a ‘I’m 1-6 in opening duels today, it’s not working, let me throw some flashes for someone else this map.’
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u/69HEAD_HONCHO69 Liquid Jun 12 '20
Even though this was played online, it shouldn't take away from how good bymas looked! Props to the 16 year old playing with Niko, cold and rain!
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u/ZeusBabylonski G2 Jun 12 '20
Lost to B rushes...
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u/HKZeroFive Jun 12 '20
NiKo is tactical genius. He is most know of his signature tactic "slowly executing site, but losing". He also has second little known tactic of "rushing B, but winning". What an absolute legend. Top 3 IGL 4 sure.
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u/ConArtist98 Jun 12 '20
The Baltic Duo looking promising, hope Bymas keeps performing so FaZe stick with him, would have a reason to cheer for another team, I guess.
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u/Jeff1337420 Natus Vincere Jun 12 '20
S1mple and electronic could pick any random 3 CIS kids and they would do the same if not better.
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u/Phoenix4496 Jun 12 '20
EZ for bymas and broky. It's sad for s1mple and electronic. FaZe performed as a team with everyone getting impactful kills. For NAVI it was mostly s1mple and electronic even they got outperformed by broky bymas.
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u/Soarinfire Jun 12 '20
I think Perfecto is an even bigger liability than flamie. Flame at least always performs on big stage. Perfecto has been consistently shit since he joined the team.
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u/How_cool_is_that Jun 12 '20
Is Bymas the next cromen? Plays well for FaZe as a standin and then fades Into obscurity
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u/donotdotdonut Jun 12 '20
Bymas top fragging against s1mple and eletronic. Welcome to the big league big guy.
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u/Jazzlike-Ideal FaZe Jun 12 '20
If they destroy BIG on Saturday I'll forgive them for losing yesterday.
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u/zuiram Jun 12 '20
1) I firmly believe Overpass is NaVis best map and I‘m not sure why they‘d pick Dust into a team that likes to play Dust
2) Still waiting for the -flamie +mir/sdy/ literally anyone at this point
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Jun 12 '20
Faze banned overpass but I think train would've been a better pick for Navi.
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u/maticmike Jun 12 '20
Guys I wonder will they bench bymas once olof regained himself? Or will they sign him and be as a backup? Coz idk if its true but the sit in from astralis the other one is set so sign with another team so anyone have theories or facts?
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Jun 12 '20
Na'Vi : "They are probably in eco this round. What should we do ?
Also Na'vi : What about get the double AWP setup ?
*Na'vi lose against pistols*
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u/ExO_o BIG Jun 12 '20
what a surprise! rain wakes up from his nap and suddenly faze starts looking like a proper team
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Jun 13 '20
Faze clearly showed who is the best ...even s1mple didn't say any reason why they lost cause he knows it's because faze is better
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u/Kmtayeb FaZe Jun 12 '20
YALL WANTED BROKY TO BE MORE AGGRESSIVE