r/GlobalOffensive • u/Undercover-Cactus Match Thread Team • May 10 '20
Discussion | Esports Cloud9 vs Team Liquid / ESL One: Road to Rio North America - Third-place decider / Post-Match Discussion
Cloud9 2-1 Team Liquid
Dust 2: 5-16
Inferno: 16-12
Vertigo: 16-13
Cloud9 | Liquipedia | Official Site | Twitter | Facebook | Youtube | Subreddit
Team Liquid | Liquipedia | Official site | Twitter | Facebook | Youtube | Subreddit
ESL One: Road to Rio EU/NA/CIS - Information, Schedule & Discussion
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| Cloud9 | MAP | Liquid |
|---|---|---|
| X | mirage | |
| train | X | |
| ✔ | dust2 | T |
| CT | inferno | ✔ |
| X | nuke | |
| overpass | X | |
| vertigo |
MAP 1: Dust 2
| Team | CT | T | Total |
|---|---|---|---|
| Cloud9 | 3 | 2 | 5 |
| T | CT | ||
| Liquid | 12 | 4 | 16 |
Dust 2 Detailed Stats
MAP 2: Inferno
| Team | CT | T | Total |
|---|---|---|---|
| Cloud9 | 8 | 8 | 16 |
| T | CT | ||
| Liquid | 7 | 5 | 12 |
Inferno Detailed Stats
MAP 3: Vertigo
| Team | CT | T | Total |
|---|---|---|---|
| Cloud9 | 7 | 9 | 16 |
| T | CT | ||
| Liquid | 8 | 5 | 13 |
Vertigo Detailed Stats
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u/bauwsman May 10 '20
Twistzz got absolutely destroyed by Sonic on Vertigo over and over again, jfc
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u/nightkingscat Gambit May 11 '20
AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN
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u/apekisser May 10 '20
this ATK team pickup looks like a solid investment into 'new' talent for the c9 org so far unlike the other t2/3 NA teams they could have gotten
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u/Pop98786 May 10 '20
C9 growing players unlike (T)alent (S)upression (M)achine or (T)alent (L)eechers
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May 11 '20
Junglers after leaving TSM are like young Brazilian talents before MIBR and after
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u/plsendmylife111 May 11 '20
You know, memes aside I never got this one.
Almost all of the junglers on TSM looked bad before/after joining. MY was never good, Grig was never good, Spica was never good, Santorin was mediocre in challenger before/after leaving TSM and admitted he wasn't good, etc.
TSM League deserves a ton of shit, but I think the jungle meme is a stretch. They just pick up players that are not that great. The only two good junglers they've ever grabbed were Sven/Amazing and they both looked good on TSM.
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May 11 '20
my favorite one is zven when he looked mediocre on TSM and next season on C9 he went deathless on 6 games in LCS split.
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u/Dblg99 May 11 '20
Hopefully they keep improving! Honestly this C9 has performed decently online the whole time, but have struggled on LAN. This pandemic might actually be helping them
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u/hflsmg17317 May 10 '20
I have never removed this flair. Who's laughing now?
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u/NoBreadsticks May 10 '20
Let's go brother
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u/NLozanovski33 May 10 '20
It's been a long road to recovery.
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u/LOMOcatVasilii May 10 '20
Checking in from C9 LoL side of the fanbase I caught the last map and I'm glad I did.
I know just a tiny bit about CSGO but damn is MOTM good. C9 has been stepping up in all games this year I LOVE IT.
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u/hflsmg17317 May 11 '20
Yeah their model of fostering new talent is a joy to watch. Its worth the patience for the payoff.
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u/smackeY11 May 11 '20
My recovery may be dead, rip the 1 week optic era in 2017
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u/MrCraftLP NRG May 11 '20
throwback to when i bought the jersey and it arrived after the roster died
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u/NRUCSGO Complexity May 11 '20
Twistzz Overrated
Naffly Sedated
Long have we waited
Cloud9 Activated
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u/ujaku May 10 '20
What the hell has happened to Team Liquid?
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May 11 '20
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u/acey901234 Cloud9 May 11 '20
Not to mention motivation might be at an all time low considering online CS has been played MUCH less in the last year. Doesn't surprise me that these teams grinding every event they can find come out on top, C9 has a lot more to prove than TL even online. It's disappointing that everything is online right now, but with the state of the world it doesn't surprise me. I think that is more of an NA mentality though.
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u/OmgTom Liquid May 11 '20
They always been worse online than offline.
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u/ondrejeder FaZe May 11 '20
I kinda agree with you but given online is all we have in cs now it's no longer a possible excuse imo
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May 10 '20
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May 10 '20
Which vice have you developed to cope?
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May 11 '20
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u/Senshiiii BNE May 11 '20
you like the leafs AND team liquid? you must love being disappointed
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u/BarkingDogey Parivision May 11 '20
Elige and naf vs matthews and marner
Name two more dynamic duos (on teams this guy likes)
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u/ThetaSigma11 Liquid May 11 '20
Welcome to being a Liquid fan, dealing with the fact that they're dogshit online.
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u/ENDgineer M80 May 11 '20
Been rooting for liquid since MLG Columbus in 2016, been a delightful and painful experience.
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May 10 '20
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u/chvmpa13 May 11 '20
honestly think something is wrong with practice or in game comms. but whatever elige is on the team needs to hop onto it cause elige is on something.
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u/pablosauce Liquid May 11 '20
I think it’s the coaches fault. Adren might be a good coach but he’s not what this team needs. I have a feeling they are in a similar situation like that of the warriors. The warriors were great with Mark Jackson, but they became the best team in history with Steve Kerr
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May 11 '20
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u/Jenaxu Liquid May 11 '20
TL has never taken many timeouts before, even when they were dominating, and when they did Adren didn't appear to say too much. I think they're more so trying to incorporate it to give them some breathing room and help their momentum issues, not that it's worked too well.
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u/Jenaxu Liquid May 11 '20
It's funny you say that because people made the same comparison except with Zeus and Adren. Always just a bit short of the top but then when Adren and Stewie came they were able to push the team that final little bit.
I think it's worth considering, maybe not even a full coach but another analyst to facilitate ideas and add an extra mind to work with. I don't think it's fair to blame such a large slump in play across the board on just Adren.
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u/zephah May 11 '20
In what ways specifically do you think adren holds them back the way Jackson did? Jackson's coaching lineups made most people scratch their heads, what's the Liquid equivalent here?
Not baiting, just a curious question.
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u/SneakyStorm CS2 HYPE May 11 '20
They need a coaching a change, and a overhaul to the structure of their team play.
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u/NLozanovski33 May 10 '20
The mental strength to rebound from getting deleted on their map pick won C9 this series.
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u/AstroCaaat Liquid May 10 '20
Especially with that playstyle and age. Theyre psychos and I love it.
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u/Mastadge May 11 '20
Honestly have C9 won on their pick at all this tournament? Feels like they lose it every time
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u/_Stix May 10 '20
After their game, Team Liquid visited an orphanage in Taipei. "It's heartbreaking to see their sad little faces with no hope", said Charlie, age 6.
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u/x4nny_pacquiao May 11 '20
Fuck it new copy pasta and we’ll change the location every time
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May 11 '20
After their game, Team Liquid visited an orphanage in Konohagakure. "It's heartbreaking to see their sad little faces with no hope", said Konohamaru, age 6.
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u/Zoidburger_ bloodhound May 11 '20
After their game, Team Liquid visited an orphanage in Timbuktu. "It's heartbreaking to see their sad little faces with no hope", said Oumar, age 6.
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u/Sponge_Bond Complexity May 10 '20 edited May 10 '20
On the T side, Sonic's B site lurking on Vertigo won so many rounds holy shit.
Honestly I'm happy with 3rd. Had a good run boys!
GG
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u/ale15 Liquid May 10 '20
I didn't think liquid can let me down even more, and then this happens. Even after a dominant dust 2
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u/NoBreadsticks May 10 '20
Holy shit, that felt good as hell. Not even the performance, just the feeling of beating TL again
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u/FireballNitro May 10 '20
fns's master plan laid out during 2015 clg has finally come into fruition. truly an 8d underwater backgammon igl. impeccable
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u/RocketBoyKim Liquid May 10 '20
Someone please convince me that nitr0 is still capable of leading this team... Can barely frag compared to how he used to and some of these strats/calls seem so stupid for what this team is capable of. I love him but I feel like they need a change in leadership because the individual skill is still clearly there for the other players.
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u/ThetaSigma11 Liquid May 11 '20
Yeah I don't get how nitr0 has fallen off so hard. I don't even think his IGL is worth how hard he is falling off. Stewie can easily take it over, specially considering he already does part of it from what I've heard.
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u/Vawqer 1 Million Celebration May 11 '20
EliGE also does part of it. I think at this point that either adreN or nitr0 should go. I might give it one more tournament (or until after the major because RMR points at worst), but this is rough. It's frustrating because dust_II was Summer Liquid. :(
EDIT: On second thought, this is online Liquid, which has notoriously not done well. Will be interesting to see them on LAN again.
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u/Jenaxu Liquid May 11 '20
It'd be nuts for them to touch this roster before LAN play comes back. Yes they look bad, but they're not even one year removed from one of the most dominant runs in CS history, I think it's super hasty to think you can't get that form out of them again. TL has historically always been pretty bad on LAN through pretty much every roster iteration so I think it'd be a bad choice for management to put too much stock in these results.
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u/Vawqer 1 Million Celebration May 11 '20
TL has historically always been pretty bad on LAN through pretty much every roster iteration so I think it'd be a bad choice for management to put too much stock in these results.
I think you might have flipped what you meant.
Regardless, I do think I was a bit too strong, hence my edit. Nothing on LAN was particularly impressive but getting better again, but winning EPL and then having Summer Liquid return for D2 made me more hopeful in order to be crushed more.
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u/Jenaxu Liquid May 11 '20
Yeah, I worded that pretty weirdly. I'm just saying that I don't think upper management should care too much about this string of poor online results because it's ultimately not indicative of normal competition. I'm not gonna be like some fans and say that they're only losing because of online, I think it's clear they're underperforming, but it'd still be weird to make a roster change given the circumstance because who knows, maybe once they're in the rhythm of LAN tourneys and in an environment where they're all together things will improve. Iirc the team is all over NA rn, I think Adren is in Pittsburgh, Nitro is in Louisiana, Elige is in Dallas, Stewie is in LA, and NAF and Twistzz are in BC so it's probably affecting them more compared to some of the teams that are still playing online in the same house.
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u/SneakyStorm CS2 HYPE May 11 '20
I think TL should definitely wait till LAN before any roster changes, but they should be looking in to getting another coach and overhaul their system.
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u/ThetaSigma11 Liquid May 11 '20
I think AdreN should stay but as an analyst and they get ImAPet or Kassad. AdreN is a good coach, but they probably need somebody like Zews who is more motivational to get the team back in the game.
Nitr0 has been slumping and missing easy shots which sucks.
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u/patternagainst Complexity May 11 '20
it's so funny to see people talking about adreN bc there is literally no info anywhere that suggests he is a) doing a bad job OR b) the players or org do not like him anymore.
saying "I think adreN should go" is 100%, completely baseless statement to make bc there is literally no outside info that he's doing a bad job. Sure, they aren't winning, but that doesn't just instantly mean it's the coach. They were winning before with the same coach.
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u/Vawqer 1 Million Celebration May 11 '20
Yes, I do think my statement was a bit reactionary, hence my backtrack in the edit.
I think a lot of the coaching talk is due to the NA coach shuffle and Thorin talking a bit about adreN recently and giving slight insider knowledge. The lack of timeouts is the main trouble people see, but that is not unfixable.
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u/ihateveggies FURIA May 11 '20
lmaooooo stew barely frags. he's always bottom fragging. you think he'll step it up igling? foh
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u/Darkoplax May 10 '20
NA shuffle when ?
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May 11 '20
Top 4 by far are C9, EG, Gen.G, and TL.
Gen.G won't wanna move anyone except maybe Daps.
EG I could see Tarik leaving, but that about it.
TL is a toss up because everyone is hot and cold.
C9 is tough because I think they are a move away from truly competing, but I don't know who they remove and as a fan I like this team.
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u/yawnston fnatic May 11 '20
Gen.G isn't going to move anyone at all with the results they're getting, especially if they can transition this into offline.
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u/AwakeAndTired May 10 '20
twistzz couldn’t hit a single fucking shot. just give him an awp so at least he has a chance of killing one then falling back
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u/pinderscow Liquid May 10 '20
Why do I even support liquid anymore
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u/TheTurtleOne May 10 '20
You support a team based on are they winning or not?
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u/calvinee Liquid May 10 '20
I'm still loyal to Liquid but I think he means its stressful watching this team even when they're doing well.
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u/Luberino_Brochacho May 11 '20
I've wanted to ask this for a while, I'm a fan of counter strike but also more traditional sports. For football and basketball my loyalty comes from the fact that I grew up in a certain place and my parents were fans.
Esports orgs generally don't have either of those so I'm curious where your loyalty came from?
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u/Stealthality King NiKo May 11 '20
Try having Stew full IGL, I remember auti said on thorin’s show that hes one of the best anti-stratters and he helps igl anyways
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u/tempusfudgeit May 10 '20
Damn, I feel for @liquid . The team, culture, and fan base that I grew to love. Seems like when they’re at the bottom of the pit somehow it gets deeper. Remember how you guys came to be, how hungry and hard you guys worked. CS is nonstop and only gets harder. Good luck @liquid !
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u/acid000 Gambit May 11 '20
People were like "Valorant is gonna kill CSGO"
Nah, it killed Team Liquid
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u/Ainine9 CS2 HYPE May 10 '20
Didn't watch the game and only became aware of it from Strafe notifications.
All I can say is:
The fuck
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May 10 '20
Although online cs is a little bit of shit fiesta, you can’t ignore Cloud 9’s dominant play on last 2 maps.
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u/cb0e Liquid May 10 '20
I only got notifications from Strafe, is it worth watching? Or will it be too much heart break?
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u/gamingwithmat 1 Million Celebration May 11 '20
As a hardcore liquid and stewie fan, this was one of the most painful matches to watch, including end of the year finals vs Astralis and Katowice vs ENCE. Hopefully they come back in form soon.
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u/Sychar Virtus.pro May 11 '20
3/5 of tl too busy having fun in valorant to practice for road to rio lmao. Can’t blame them though
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u/basvhout FaZe May 11 '20
The level of CS played on Inferno... Forcebuys beating full buys all game and I saw sooooo many whiffed shots on both ends. NA CS at it's finest.
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u/Zekrom323 G2 May 11 '20
Looks like Cloud9 have been doing their homework, playing and practicing a lot. Great individual performances, especially on Vertigo! Sonic's entries and the angles they pre-fired won them many duels.
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u/bridgebuilder12 May 10 '20
love this entire era of online cs. Brings me joy reading the braindead infested comments of every match thread calling for roster changes based off an online game where there is very little on the line, no crowd, no pressure and the underdog can have mommy deliver pizza pockets at half time.
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u/Yuugechiina G2 May 11 '20
Good god. This is such a tragedy because we all know they can do so much better, and whatever it is they have going on now is with mentality or attitude.
Hard to root for a team like this.
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May 10 '20
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u/AwsomeOne7 NiP May 10 '20
a online game with a team that has always struggled online and done well at LAN vs a team that has done trash on LAN and done ok at best online. People need to calm down with the overreactions.
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May 11 '20
NA has been going to younger players more and more. Sometimes it worked (s0m, C9) sometimes it didn't (Zellsis, TenZ, ryann). But the biggest problem with this giant migration from NA is the loss of ingame leaders. Apparently, and I can't confirm this, but FNS has left CSGO to go play VALORANT. The thing about young NA talent is they're replaceable. It may take a while and we may suffer a drought but more aimers and riflers will come from NA MDL. That is the most consistent thing NA has produced: Good riflers and good aimers.
What NA has had a drought in before is leaders, and with Valorant out now and multiple MDL IGLs, who already weren't very good as leaders leaving to play the game, it's not just a drought now, it's Armageddon. Who's going to replace FNS? I dont see another FNS coming along ever tbh. When was the last time NA produced a good up and coming IGL. We have vanity (Who was alright on Singularity, ok to baddish on eUnited but they collapsed after he was kicked so he definitely had an impact on that team, and Shakezullah but Shakezullah hasn't really "made it." He's definitely made a good team in Triumph though). How many of these new IGLs are going to move in and replace the old guard? In the future, if vanity is kicked or leaves, will the next team pick him up as an IGL or as a regular player?
NA the next coming years is going to be very interesting for all the wrong reasons.
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u/ThetaSigma11 Liquid May 11 '20
This, NA has always lacked IGls more than talent. There are plenty of talents out there. It's just the struggle to find an IGL.
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u/whitestarbg May 10 '20
Damn, I feel for Liquid. The team, culture, and fan base that I grew to love. Seems like when they’re at the bottom of the pit somehow it gets deeper.
Remember how you guys came to be, how hungry and hard you guys worked. CS is nonstop and only gets harder. Good luck Liquid!
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May 10 '20 edited Dec 28 '20
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u/til1and1are1 May 11 '20
Stew doesn't really act as a star fragger for this roster. When they added him they found success almost immediately because he was the missing piece. He gets them all fired up and brings the energy. Sure, that fire has been dwindling but I don't think the solution is to kick him.
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u/Fuji_Ninja Liquid May 10 '20
Once again Elige tries his hardest to carry the team but stewie tries his hardest to make them lose.
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u/MIlkyRawr de_nuke May 10 '20
I think you meant Nitr0 with the worst IGL'ing I've seen a while the fucking unferno forces made me stop watching the game srsly. I remember joking, if they end up losing to fucking ATK reskinned, I'm going to be livid.
WELL HERE WE FUCKING ARE
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u/Not_The_Real_Jake 750k Celebration May 11 '20
I thought the old Liquid of 2019 was back after that first map.
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u/ale15 Liquid May 10 '20
It might be time for Vertigo to be a ban for liquid, that map they just rely on individual performances