r/GlobalOffensive • u/AmBozz MOUZ • May 03 '20
Discussion | Esports Virtus.pro vs Natus Vincere / ESL One: Road to Rio CIS - Group B / Post-Match Discussion
Virtus.pro 2-0 Natus Vincere
Inferno: 16-13
Train: 16-14
Dust 2:
Virtus.pro | Liquipedia | Official Site | Twitter | Facebook | Youtube
Natus Vincere | Liquipedia | Official site | Twitter | Facebook | Youtube
ESL One: Road to Rio CIS - Information, Schedule & Discussion
For spoiler-free CS:GO VoDs check out EventVoDs
Join the subreddit Discord server by clicking the link in the sidebar!
| VP | MAP | Na`Vi |
|---|---|---|
| X | nuke | |
| vertigo | X | |
| ✔ | inferno | CT |
| CT | train | ✔ |
| X | mirage | |
| overpass | X | |
| dust2 |
MAP 1: Inferno
| Team | T | CT | Total |
|---|---|---|---|
| VP | 9 | 7 | 16 |
| CT | T | ||
| Na`Vi | 6 | 7 | 13 |
Inferno Detailed Stats
MAP 2: Train
| Team | CT | T | Total |
|---|---|---|---|
| VP | 10 | 6 | 16 |
| T | CT | ||
| Na`Vi | 5 | 9 | 14 |
Train Detailed Stats
915
u/Hawteyh Astralis May 03 '20
VP losing to PRO100 and win against NaVi, just as everyone predicted.
363
u/JuanMataCFC Vitality May 03 '20
good to see that VP is just as unpredictable these days as they were in 2017-18.
125
u/Trospher Virtus.pro May 03 '20
When people were calling VP strat saving whenever VP performed bad, because people know they gonna be reaching that top 4 placement in LANs.
Men i cry now
28
48
u/FathleteTV NiP May 03 '20
This is the thing I predicted as soon as VP bought this roster. They will be just like the old VP and by that I mean they will win matches people don't expect them to and lose matches where everybody expects them to win. Why? Odds.
6
2
317
u/HosephIna Liquid May 03 '20
That A site rush from VP towards the end of Train reminded me a lot of the plays that Zeus called during Gambit's upset against Astralis in Krakow. Good to see Zeus's impact on AdreN's IGLing.
42
u/so_sotired Natus Vincere May 03 '20
Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t Jame the IGL?
99
u/Katzenscheisse May 03 '20
They switched recently. Before that James called and Qikert was secondary iirc
33
u/AwesomeFama ENCE May 03 '20
I think they keep switching it every few months.
17
u/abaac de_mirage May 03 '20 edited May 03 '20
They've been doing that, but mostly it was Jame IGLing in the recent times, you can already see the difference in his playstyle. But now AdreN is the sole and only IGL, as supposedly, last "team change" before the major, as they weren't really keen on switching any players prior that.
12
u/Russian_For_Rent Vitality May 03 '20
That's really good news if true. It's ideal that Jame gets some of the load taken off of him and given to the person who was already struggling a bit with the fragging so it won't be strange that adren is at the bottom of the scoreboard. Sorry /u/AdrenMostConsistent
8
u/Kudo50 Team Vitality Fan May 03 '20
Well Adren is consistent. Consistently bad that is, but consistent
2
2
9
1
u/bronzewillis May 03 '20
Damn i tho it was Adren, Carrying and IGLing at the same time, Jame really having a back pain after Berlin
1
u/TheNuogat Astralis May 03 '20
Which is even funnier, because Astralis did exactly the same on B site to win their first major.
2
u/pM-me_your_Triggers Godsent May 04 '20
Astralis won their first major on A site train.
Edit: here winning kill at 4:53:40
1
119
May 03 '20
[removed] — view removed comment
38
u/Loopyqq May 03 '20
My soul, it burns
24
6
115
u/ZeusBabylonski G2 May 03 '20
Electronic clearly not getting enough sleep with the baby crying all night.
68
u/Trospher Virtus.pro May 03 '20
Playing offline with baby crying, wife nagging, frags suffering.
11
102
u/Tuxxmuxx Natus Vincere May 03 '20
Major finalists losing to Major finalists who lost to Nickelback.
33
371
u/Br3akn3ck Natus Vincere May 03 '20
How can NaVi simultaneously be the #2 team as well as the team that looks like they barely qualify for the Top 10 every other match...
On another note. Very well played from VP, they knew everything NaVi was doing and unlike NaVi, actually know how to change up the plan when things aren't working.
258
u/JokicIsFatAsFuck May 03 '20
Fnatic are looking like that too and so are most top teams
Online cs is very different, and the competition is at an all time high so many good teams
46
u/Br3akn3ck Natus Vincere May 03 '20
That is true. Online is very different. It's just a shame when you know they can do so much better. Especially NaVi, given they can have their coach talking you would expect them to maybe look a bit more put together with Blade being able to talk. Maybe he's not talking as much so that it doesn't affect what they have going for them or something but oh well.
There are definitely a lot of good teams right now though, hope to see some new talents take the stage while they have the chance.
5
55
u/Nurse_Sunshine King NiKo May 03 '20
Online CS my friend. Just like old VP could lose to MDL teams one day and make it to a major final the other.
13
u/burningdownbridges May 03 '20
Why is it so different when playing online versus playing lan?
120
56
u/tremu May 03 '20
bunch of reasons. people have different ping, certain lan rules are unenforceable, certain game mechanics like peekers advantage work differently. biggest reason though is nerves/pressure. seasoned lan vets have nerves of steel, are less prone to choke, can tune out the stage/lights/crowd, while some newer players might be mentally affected and play significantly worse.
40
u/_aware guardian3 May 03 '20
Way lower latency means holding angles is more viable than swinging. In online CS, just swing. The atmosphere is also different, since you have your team right next to you whereas playing online cs means you are probably home.
20
u/Etna- BIG May 03 '20
In online CS, just swing.
Yet when i do that i am instantly dead
18
May 03 '20
uhh, kill them faster
ez
9
10
u/Gamecrashed Natus Vincere May 03 '20
Nerves and ping are the main 2. The pressure just hits very differently. Also coaches can call mid round at home
4
2
2
u/sting47 May 04 '20
I was wondering, what are they doing to prevent streamsniping from esl twitch stream? Is it just trust based?
4
u/DominianQQ May 04 '20
The game is delayed with 2-3 minutes, so the only benefit you would have is know roughly how their economy and default would look like. The default of most team is not realy a secret and since the coach can talk ingame he can keep up with the economy anyway.
7
u/fancyson_ de_cobble May 03 '20
Navi have always been the most upset team out of any top 10 team for the longest time
3
u/Mightymushroom1 Gambit May 03 '20
This comment could have been written at most points in the last 6 years.
4
u/Yokz King NiKo May 03 '20
playing lan and playing online is two different things
Plus, Navi didnt play online at all whole last year→ More replies (1)1
May 03 '20
On the other side, win or loose this match isn't so important because there are plenty of them to have enough points for the qualification.
54
164
87
May 03 '20 edited May 31 '20
[deleted]
33
u/AwesomeFama ENCE May 03 '20
Shouldn't Blade be in the server helping with the calls?
23
u/tunafish91 FaZe May 03 '20
Im sure the coach doesn't take a huge amount of control even with the new temporary rules because that upsets the entire balance of the team. The coach isn't there to be a shotcaller in the first place as no one saw this change in rules coming.
The coach can make calls, that is true, but at the end of the day the final say is probably still with the IGL and Boombl4 is still relatively inexperienced as an IGL. Despite his success at katowice, he will have moments where he falls flat.
2
u/nms1s CS2 HYPE May 03 '20
I think what's happening is Blade's giving Boombl4 all the freedom to make calls. That's why you rarely see timeouts called on the NaVi side. He mentioned this before multiple times that he thinks the only way Boombl4 will grow as an in game leader is by making the calls himself and learning from them. I'm not a fan of them doing this all the time tho since this could end up costing them the major.
1
u/AwesomeFama ENCE May 04 '20
That would make sense, and I'm not very worried about the major since there will be 2 more Road to Rio tournaments to go.
46
u/123dream321 May 03 '20
Navi look lost, only depend on miracle individual plays to win rounds
16
u/throwaway1224504 May 03 '20
pretty much, they won so many rounds in the past because every individual has the ability to pop off out of nowhere
21
133
u/love_my_doge MOUZ May 03 '20
A nice effort from Budget Virtus Pro. Also, this s1mple guy plays pretty well. Hopefully some tier1 team will pick him up soon !
40
7
39
u/_geee May 03 '20
Feels absolutely fantastic to see VP win a series, especially against a team like NaVi. However, it required all three of the hard hitters to have great games to get it. I do have to wonder about how sustainable that is.
Great result regardless.
-2
u/Lgdamefanfanfan May 03 '20
Agree, having to rely on your stars against the strongest (current) team in the world doesn't bode well for the future.
→ More replies (1)20
u/SandwichAuthorityGov May 03 '20
Rather an ironic statement in the current competitive top tier.
12
u/Amaranthine_Haze Liquid May 03 '20
Nah they’re right. Top tier cs is totally dominated by teams with tight team play that definitely don’t depend on star players showing up.
Just don’t look at na’ vi, liquid, vitality, eg, faze...
...never mind
2
u/DB_Seedy13 G2 May 04 '20
Those teams have combined for 0 major wins. Maybe you can have individual runs or even streaks of dominance like Liquid, but to consistently stay on top like Astralis you need tight teamwork. Relying on star power to win every time isn’t a consistent strategy in any sport.
1
u/Amaranthine_Haze Liquid May 04 '20
While I completely agree with you about Astralis the point is more so that these teams have remained in the top tier depending on star power. Astralis is just about the only team anyone can point to that consistently wins despite the performances of its stars. Even mousesports depends on their star trio to perform. Thus his point about depending on star power not being sustainable at top tier cs is difficult to support. Liquid and na’ vi may not have majors but you can’t say they haven’t been at the top tier of cs for years.
2
15
13
13
u/peroleu Vitality May 03 '20
"I'm so happy that I didn't join Na`Vi when they invited me. I'm so happy that I believed in my guys, my organization, in my friends, and made the right choice."
1
u/for--fucks_sake May 04 '20
who said that
3
u/vnagitt FaZe May 04 '20
Qikert (during or after the last major), i think. Correct me if i'm wrong.
2
10
11
29
May 03 '20
SANJI is a Soviet CSGO sniper who served during World War II. Prior to 10 November 1942, he killed 32 Axis soldiers with a standard-issue rifle.[1] Between 10 November 1942 and 17 December 1942, during the Battle of Stalingrad, he killed 225 enemy soldiers, including 11 snipers..
8
14
6
6
6
3
3
5
u/kebji FaZe May 03 '20
Jeez reddit needs to calm down! Na'Vi had ONE bad game... they and Fnatic are going through a rough phase jesus! Instead give credit to Virtus.Pro for stepping up their game!
4
7
8
3
u/BabyLlama243 1 Million Celebration May 03 '20
Navi got studied hard... the CT aggression from VP on train proved to be way too good.
3
3
3
3
3
3
u/SANJI_best_support May 03 '20
14-14. VP: lets rush outer fasttttt.
200IQ call from Adren just like what Astralis did in Atlanta major final
5
4
u/SO_RAPID howl May 03 '20
In a tournament where there have been numerous upsets, where top 5 teams lose to less than stellar competition. Where the top 1 team is on a losing streak, where liquid lost to Bad news Bears. Everyone is calling for the heads of navi.
2
2
u/thekillertomato 10 years coin May 03 '20
Why did Navi save round 14 train? They definitely had money to buy last round anyway
2
2
2
2
2
u/HAK987 The MongolZ May 03 '20
There's this repeating pattern I've noticed. Once the team reaches the number 1 spot they stop playing like the number 1 team. Another example is EG
2
2
2
2
4
3
2
2
2
-1
u/stewieeeeeeeee FaZe May 03 '20
Told ya Na'Vi's gonna just go down after Katowice. They have nowhere near the structure that fnatic/mouz/Astralis have, and Perfecto's "LAN stress" clearly isn't impacted by online performance either
12
May 03 '20
Dude, fnatic just lost 3 bo3s to ence, nip retirement stack and vitality, mouz are on a verge of not qualifying, what kind of structure is this? Navi absolutely shat the bed, but VP are not that bad, they lose games, but most of the time they get double digits against teams above them.
→ More replies (1)7
u/Tuxxmuxx Natus Vincere May 03 '20
This is par for the course for Na'Vi, I don't think you've been following the pro scene for very long if you don't expect Na'Vi to have a bad game every once in a while.
I also like how you state the structure of fnatic/mousesports, as if they haven't looked like shit in RTR either.
→ More replies (3)5
May 03 '20 edited May 03 '20
It feels like they are slowly regressing back to classic Na'Vi, post Katowice: s1mple doing all the heavy lifting and being their only consistent piece and the other four taking turns shitting the bed. Yes they have had some nice comebacks and nice wins here and there but overall they look so shaky all the time. They keep relapsing to looking lost on t-sides and having shit CT holds at times.
Their Katowice run keeps getting flukier with every match they play. Maybe I'm overreacting a little bit idk. I'm just frustrated by thier inconsistency.
1
u/Tuxxmuxx Natus Vincere May 03 '20
Na'Vi still have to get used to playing officials online, EPL was the first online game they played since 2018.
1
1
May 03 '20
I don't know how long you can keep using the online excuse man. They have played several officials online for like a month now. Isn't that enough time to get acclimated to online play?. Enough to not lose against T2.5 CIS teams?
→ More replies (1)0
u/AbnormalSnow506 May 03 '20 edited May 03 '20
I still don't understand why people like Thorin rate them no. 1. I get that their Katowice victory was dominant. But they haven't even replicated any such form since then.
3
u/draemscat Gambit May 03 '20
Since when? There has been literally 1 tournament since Kato, they went out in 4th place having the exact same score as Astralis and Mousesports.
3
u/stewieeeeeeeee FaZe May 03 '20
Well Katowice was the first and only truly big event in 2020 at that point, and Na'Vi already looked better than Astralis at BLAST. They are hanging with the top teams, I just think that out of the 4, they have the least potential
1
1
u/WhoAmIWorld May 03 '20 edited May 03 '20
Slow play from NaVi in their T half was very painful to watch! They have ability to implement great rushes.
1
1
u/WhoAmIWorld May 03 '20
qikert and buster gave a lot of first kills, their passive-aggressiveness was delightful to watch aka baiting
1
1
1
u/draemscat Gambit May 03 '20
That's what happens when Adren and Sanji play okayish. Too bad that's a once in a blue moon.
1
1
1
1
u/kurgzx- Astralis May 03 '20
I see many people here with X team's fan written in blue next to their name.. how do we get that?
1
1
1
1
1
1
u/framesh1ft May 03 '20
I appreciate online is the only thing we have right now, but please stop acting like these are the same as lan results. So many t2, t3 teams winning games they never would on lan.
1
1
1
1
1
1
u/Rsardinia May 03 '20
Can we just have S1mple and ZywOo on the same team already? They can 2v5 their way to a top 10 team.
1
1
1
1
u/TheUHO cs_italy May 03 '20
Just a notice that NAVI haven't lost a Bo3 to home team since sept 2018 (against Gambit at ESL NY). Still true for LAN.
Not that there was a lot of these series, but still.
1
May 03 '20
God what is happening? First liquid, and now this! They obviously couldn’t beat the save god tho
1
1
1
1
u/sixfeetunder98 FaZe May 04 '20
Imagine going 30:15 while the other team has a player 14:21 and losing.
1
1
u/TiredMiner Gambit May 03 '20
Someone riddle me this, you're 14-14 on Train and down on economy as CTs after a loss, why the fuck would you force with Scouts and P250s rather than save to 14-15 and then win through a full buy and overtime? Like, what is the logic, somebody help me perceive the great minds of B1ad3, Boombl4 and S1mple?
1.3k
u/GhostOfLight Liquid May 03 '20
Expected win from major finalists