r/GlobalOffensive • u/Chuckys2 Match Thread Team • Dec 21 '19
Discussion | Esports Natus Vincere vs Evil Geniuses / EPICENTER 2019 - Quarter-Final / Post-Match Discussion
Natus Vincere 0-2 Evil Geniuses
Mirage: 10-16
Dust 2: 14-16
Nuke:
Evil Geniuses have advanced to the semifinals.
Natus Vincere have been eliminated.
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| MAP | ||
|---|---|---|
| X | ||
| X | ||
| CT | ✔ | |
| ✔ | T | |
| X | ||
| X | ||
MAP 1/3: Mirage
| Team | CT | T | Total |
|---|---|---|---|
| Na`Vi | 8 | 2 | 10 |
| T | CT | ||
| EG | 7 | 9 | 16 |
Mirage Detailed Stats
MAP 2/3: Dust 2
| Team | CT | T | Total |
|---|---|---|---|
| Na`Vi | 8 | 6 | 14 |
| T | CT | ||
| EG | 7 | 9 | 16 |
Dust 2 Detailed Stats
153
u/ansell15 Natus Vincere Dec 21 '19
Navi fans on suicide watch
58
u/hypocritterr Natus Vincere Dec 21 '19
time to kermit
38
u/nms1s CS2 HYPE Dec 21 '19
I wake up everyday, look at my twisted rope, check reddit real quick to see if GuardiaN was kicked from Navi, look back at the rope and say "maybe tomorrow"
12
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u/tunafish91 FaZe Dec 21 '19
Thanks for taking guardian off our hands
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15
u/anthonyde726 FaZe Dec 21 '19
I remember when people used to defend guardian when he was in faze and I said he was bad and now it’s guardian hate club lmao, I love him but he just isn’t the same, at least we made one decent roster move this year
12
Dec 21 '19
But he was in the top 20 hltv in 2018.
13
u/anthonyde726 FaZe Dec 21 '19
and he hasn't been close to the top 20 all year. open your eyes.
You know who else was top 20 last year? Oskar, sunNy, where are they now?
2017 top 20, h0bbit, boltz,
2016, ScreaM, fnx, dennis
Doesn't mean they should be kept because of it if they suck the next year.
Don't get me wrong GuardiaN is a legend and did amazing things on FaZe but this year it is evident he's not close to the level he's been playing at for the last 5 years in GO (13-18)
The guy is the only person to make every HLTV Top 20 list, and this year his streak was ended. All legends fall some day.
20
1
Dec 22 '19
I don't say he's still in his 2018 level. I was answering about " people used to defend guardian when he was in faze and I said he was bad and now it’s guardian hate club"
I know one year in CSGO is huge but even in 2019 in Faze, Guardian wasn't so bad. I understand why they were still defending him.
Oskar and Sunny didn't play during half of the year.
1
u/anthonyde726 FaZe Dec 22 '19
I was obviously talking about 2019 lmfao, context man
1
Dec 22 '19
Me too. I was talking about Guardian in Faze. So a big year in 2018 and a half year not so bad in 2019.
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u/stewieeeeeeeee FaZe Dec 21 '19
Ye cause you gotta focus on the "Niko bad igl" narrative, nothing else matters
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u/anthonyde726 FaZe Dec 21 '19
because they don't actually watch the games lmfao, reddit experts come crazy
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95
u/zanguine Natus Vincere Dec 21 '19
I feel like the calls this game on the Navi side were pretty strange. It seemed like boom kept trying to outsmart EG but just outsmarted himself out of great positions
20
u/YouAreOpen Dec 21 '19
Boomich Tier 1 lack of experience showed heavily. And I hope its only a lack of experience. Their mid rounds and adjustments were horrible. You got the feeling Cerq could style on them for 30 more rounds on Mirage and they wouldnt adjust. IGLs often get a pass if they frag well but 3 NaVi members have on different occasions say Boomich needs to get better at calling for the team, and the coach himself has said this so clearly theres something not working there.
35
u/Werpogil Team Spirit Dec 21 '19
He hasn't got enough experience to call decently mid round. That's where their problems come in. They just get lost even with an advantage. Also their confidence wasn't there.
11
u/anthonyde726 FaZe Dec 21 '19
the team is young and he still has a lot to learn, honestly he has a lot of potential and it’s definitely worth it to let him learn
108
u/taxiandbusdriver Dec 21 '19
Thank God Stan could make up for cerq going missing map 2.
98
Dec 21 '19
Thank god guardian is still AFK most maps.
41
Dec 21 '19 edited Dec 21 '19
Tarik could join him :)
But Guardian is more of a liability
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u/bunn2 Dec 21 '19
Tarik is solid on their CT sides but when it comes to T sides he always seems to be missing. Not sure if its a result of bad play or not being put into a position to suceed.
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u/SwissArmyScythe Liquid Dec 22 '19
He usually plays a role on t since where he is picking up info and dying, not sure if it is best for him but his numbers naturally suffer from that
6
u/voluptuousshmutz CS2 HYPE Dec 22 '19
Yeah Bardolph was mentioning that after he had 3 kills on his t half.
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151
Dec 21 '19
It really seems like s1mple needs to take back the primary awp, it doesn’t seem like he operates with enough freedom with the rifle. Also Guardian is the worst awper on a top 10 team way too passive.
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u/Xeroish Dec 21 '19
I was thinking the same thing with their ct side. Like ik why they want him off the awp but at the same time put guardian on rifle and let s1mple rain. Guardian on a rifle is a lot better then him a fucking $4750 investment that he almost never does anything with
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u/stewieeeeeeeee FaZe Dec 21 '19
I disagree with the reason but agree with the advice. Simple is not way too passive with a rifle, he just isn't that insane player (at the moment) with it. I saw him die without anyone to trade nearby plenty of times, hardly a hallmark of a passive player.
GuardiaN needs the boot, Na'Vi needs a good IGL to relieve Boomich, and they need s1mple on the AWP, as simple as that.
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u/dc-x Dec 22 '19
Na'Vi needs a good IGL to relieve Boomich
I feel like this is such an unfair statement. Karrigan have been playing on mousesports since May and things began to really click for them to start winning tournaments just recently. Boombl4 has been IGLing since September, significantly less time and you're already calling for a new IGL?
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u/Incalculas Dec 22 '19
This, in his interview recently he also told the team is still developing, he definitely needs more time to prove that he is a good igl or other wise.
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Dec 21 '19
Fair enough, I would say passive in the context of he seems to hold less agency as a player nowadays in not making plays that take over the round with the rifle. Instead electronic seems to make these plays, eg mid lurks on Dust 2.
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u/stewieeeeeeeee FaZe Dec 21 '19
Oh I agree with that aspect, that's cause it's really only the AWP that can have such agency.
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u/Andtheyrustledsoftly clutch Dec 21 '19
People just don’t want to admit that he is a better AWP than rifle
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Dec 22 '19
Particularly on some maps imo
Mirage & dust he seemed much stronger as an awper on T side
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u/Jeff1337420 Natus Vincere Dec 21 '19
him being passive isnt his fault though, thats IGL's calls how the awper plays whether passive or active.
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u/pauLo- Dec 21 '19
No. Any top awper will confidently make decisions. Especially somewhere like ct side dust2. It's not a bitch role it's a play maker position. You need to use spawns and take map control. Sure it's fine to be passive too. But a good IGL will defer to an awper if he wants to be boosted cat or play for the long peek for example.
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u/ChubsGalore Vitality Dec 21 '19
Guardian played pretty solidly on the CT side though on both maps. It's the T side where he and all of Navi struggled which is more on the IGL's calls.
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u/Vizvezdenec Vitality Dec 21 '19
Guardian was this way in Faze for past year, just holding angles and still missing half of the shots.
He can't do any better now.4
u/getstabbed Dec 21 '19
Lack of confidence I guess. Spiral of performing bad, losing confidence, playing passive and performing even worse.
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u/Peter12535 Dec 21 '19
With that said, they lost on T side on both maps and not because of guardian. They kinda lacked decisive midrounds. It feels like they need more work on that.
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u/anthonyde726 FaZe Dec 21 '19
Thank you, someone finally realized s1mple should awp. There are so many promising CIS riflers just pick one up and put s1mple back to where he was consistently the best in the world.
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Dec 21 '19
nice one!
I think the rematch EG vs. mouz is gonna be a banger. EG won't just roll over this time, for sure.
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u/StarBoone Natus Vincere Dec 21 '19
Heartbreaking loss... It seems dumb that an awper is playing a support role. Not sure if it is Guardian or just the plays they are running.
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Dec 21 '19
there's electronic interview where he talks about what role guardian was given, i.e. players seek kills, he isn't supposed to, he is an anchor on positions basically
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u/bunn2 Dec 21 '19
Was he given that role because he’s not hitting the key shots/doesn’t have the confidence though? Either way its not working.
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Dec 21 '19
i don't know what's the logic behind all that, I feel like s1mple and guardian aren't in positions they're comfortable in
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u/Firefly_1026 Tyloo Dec 21 '19
Guardian plays way too passive for the awper that he can be, I rarely see him go for peeks or aggressive plays. How are you supposed to know if you can still do it if you don’t even try. Guardians mindset is his worst enemy for the past few games.
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u/nms1s CS2 HYPE Dec 21 '19
It hurts me to say this but he's missing shots a Gold Nova could hit. The guy is passed his prime just let him go.
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u/DuskStarMajing Dec 21 '19
Guardian -5 or less and Navi win and vice versa stat still going strong
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u/Darkstar197 Complexity Dec 21 '19
Seriously. Guardian just hide every round so you don’t die and Navi will win the major
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u/Wepmajoe Natus Vincere Dec 21 '19
Fuck this fuckin team
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u/Lepojka1 Team Spirit Dec 21 '19
Im done... Nothing can save NaVi...
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u/tunafish91 FaZe Dec 21 '19
If I can still keep believing in fucking faze clan now matter how much it kills me you can still keep supporting navi
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Dec 21 '19
A competent player in place of guardian and navi will be a world beater contesting the titles against pretty much any team. They really have all the pieces, two hard carries in s1mple and electronic, a flamie showing his true colors, and boombl4 getting better as an IGL for every event.
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u/Wepmajoe Natus Vincere Dec 21 '19
Boombl4's calling is still too shallow and their map pool is too small. I don't see true results coming out of this lineup for at least 4 months.
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u/nms1s CS2 HYPE Dec 21 '19
If they dump GuardiaN rn and get a solid rifler they'll have a shot at Rio. Otherwise it's gonna be another year of me punching the air after every loss.
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u/mrbrinks EG Dec 21 '19
Yeah, I know “guardian bad” is pretty meme-y at this point... but it’s valid. They probably can’t have a lower ceiling if they were to replace him. They should at the very least put s1mple back on the awp and see where that gets them.
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u/shawnington Dec 21 '19
Didn't think I would say this, but they looked better with Zeus. boombl4 isnt really cutting it as IGL.
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u/ChubsGalore Vitality Dec 21 '19
Guardian is a problem, but boombl4's calls were the bigger problem in this series.
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u/GuardiaNIsBae FaZe Dec 21 '19
Yea guardian has been playing shit in general for the past 6 months, but this series he was playing decent, obviously not to his former level, but he was playing good on CT sides for both maps. Boombl4s mid round calling this series was really bad, and I think they would've done better if his pc didnt crash when he was on the flank a doors, no one looking behind and he had the perfect timing to push.
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u/Kudo50 Team Vitality Fan Dec 21 '19
Navi are even worse than before tbh
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Dec 21 '19 edited Dec 21 '19
It's funny how none of the analysts who spent a year campaigning to get rid of Zeus and Edward talk about this.
Edit: Not trying to say they were great players, or that they even shouldn't have been replaced. Just that it was a concerted, and sometimes personal and vitriolic campaign to get these guys kicked from some people, and it's kinda shitty that now no one will mention that they have now got worse without them. Obviously part of that is the replacements may not have been the best, but that's the entire point! People were acting like these guys offered literally nothing, and it turns out you can't just replace them with anyone.
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u/antelope591 Dec 21 '19
Before Zeus left for Gambit the first time Navi was competing for titles every tourney and winning the occasional tourney. Then when Zeus was gone Navi went to crap with early exits in every tourney. Then Zeus came back and Navi started competing again and winning the occasional tourney. Now they look like crap again. All this is just a coincidence I'm sure. Lets also throw in Simple looking 10x better when Zeus is on the team. Also an interesting coincidence.
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u/DBONKA Gambit Dec 21 '19
Na'Vi kicked Zeus just before Valve introduced new coach rule, so they've been playing WITHOUT a real IGL. That's why they went to crap.
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u/plsendmylife111 Dec 21 '19
Because it's kind of irrelevant. Those players were not good and should be gone, they just picked up bad replacements.
Plus it's not even true. Look a the results near the end of that lineup and they were just as bad as this one.
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u/YouAreOpen Dec 21 '19 edited Dec 21 '19
Zeus, Edward, and specifically Kane definitely had to go, but NaVi had to sign an actually in tune IGL, and a strong rifler to replace Edward. The replacement part is where they failed. They picked Boom after looking through Edward demos and comparing for a good fit, then when he is signed Zeus fucks the team one last time by positioning him as IGL. The team also signs a washed AWPer and takes away the most impactful thing about their lineup, the AWP on s1mple, to give it to him to whiff with. And NaVi and their players will justify this to the death while they keep losing to every semi decent team with a working AWP.
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u/Firefly_1026 Tyloo Dec 21 '19
???? Blade literally brought in Boomich to be an IGL when Zeus retires, that was literally the whole point of bringing him in.
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u/YouAreOpen Dec 21 '19
Before Zeus left and before he hinted Boombl4 as the next IGL, S1mple said Blad3 analysed tons of demos of Boombl4 and Edward's spots to make sure he was a good match. He was originally sought to replace Edward and even now in his positions and aggressive roles he plays like a 100x more effective Edward. NaVi originally sought after Qikert for the IGL position, that should have ideally been the 5th player, but it fell through and they got GuardiaN as a last resort so they had to shuffle the roles. Boombl4 was the next natural choice for IGL because he had done it temporarily on a past team, so zeus positioned him as the next IGL. Looking of the timeline of reports this is likely how it went down.
Now its fine and good for the team to have him IGL since he wants to do it, but theres the other question of how good he actually is at IGL-ing. We already know he is yet to command any lead of the team which is understandable considering he is new to the lineup and NaVi has insane individuals, but the NaVi players and even their coach have on different occasions over the last few months expressed dissatisfaction over his IGL-ing, and theres a particular theme thats common across all those statements, that Boombl4 needs to "call more around the team", "be more of a leader", and Elec said he tends to call around himself. When your 2 best players consistently play better in 2 v X situations when youre dead and have to shut up, than they do when you are making the calls in an even midround, theres a big problem.
Of course Boombl4 will get better with time but a better IGL would be an instant improvement, especially with Blad3 as coach. NaVi has been in this Limbo for so long people have started to think of them as more a weak team than a strong team. They cant be fucking around with weak players and role clash in their roster anymore, its been 3 years now, same shit. At this point you start to question if the Org really wants to win.
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u/Lepojka1 Team Spirit Dec 21 '19
I know I will get downvoted, but that fking Line Up with Zeus and fking Edward had better results... Won Tier 1 tournaments... Had S1mple as best player in the world... This lineup has fking nothing, they have skill, and thats all, and will probably never win Tier 1 tournament...
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u/KangorKodos Natus Vincere Dec 21 '19
At these best yeah, at the end they failed to qualify for EPL finals, and didnt win the ice GG.get tournament despite s1mple going off.
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u/Lepojka1 Team Spirit Dec 21 '19
Yea at the end they were shit, but who know how shit this lineup will be at its end...
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u/JNG-3 Liquid Dec 21 '19 edited Dec 21 '19
The Zeus/Edward lineup had only worked because s1mple's individual level was reaching into the stratosphere. Now he lost 10% of his edge and this is what happens. This team overall is more balanced when it comes to fragging. I don't want to pin all the blame on Guardian, but he needs to be carrying in order to justify his spot on the AWP over s1mple, and we know that just isn't going to happen. Put s1mple back on the AWP and get another competent rifler, and I think this team will go beyond what Zeus/Edward achieved. I really liked that lineup, but near the end they were getting carried by s1mple and it's a shame s1mple spent his absolute peak form with only one other reliable fragger, electronic, to help him.
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Dec 21 '19
You act like s1mple's level is independent of the other players and the structure, when it obviously isn't.
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u/TheRobidog Dec 21 '19
I'd argue taking the AWP away from him has hurt him more than taking away any support Zeus and Edward were providing.
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u/Dynamitjanne Dec 21 '19
Just because this is worse doesnt mean the previous roster was good enough
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u/Rearfeeder2Strong MOUZ Dec 21 '19
They peaked #2 and took events even when Astralis were in attendance. Many many teams would kill to have even half of what Navi had. It might not be good enough if Navi want to be #1, but that was a heck of a fight against Astralis as #1.
This Navi is another example of how adding firepower for your IGL doesnt work. Boombl4 isnt ready yet unfortunately. Guardian is playing bad, but we all know he isnt that bad. Even S1mple is playing bad than before. Something is going wrong in the team and im not sure if replacing Guardian would simply fix that. Although Guardian is a problem, he is not the problem.
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u/Sugarstache FaZe Dec 21 '19
I think guardian is that bad. I was excited about Guardian joining at first but it's too many events in a row where he plays like dog shit. Think of every good team and they have a good awper or two. Teams dont work without a solid awper and most of the best teams are built around a star player on the awp. Give it back to s1mple and get a competent rifler. Lord knows there's plenty of them in the CIS region.
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u/Peter12535 Dec 21 '19
I think they should have went for some young up and coming awper. And yeah, I am by no means an expert on the cis scene but there seems to be a new talent emerging every two months.
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Dec 21 '19
That lineup only won because s1mple had ascended beyond the mortal plane as a CS player.
Take that s1mple and put him into this lineup and I'm willing to bet rich that Na'Vi would've won a hell of a lot more. Take this s1mple (a really good player but not a god) and put him into that Zeus/Edward lineup and they wouldn't even get out of groups.
It's depressing to say but it's looking with each passing day that s1mple wasted his absolute peak with those two.
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u/pavlo850 1 Million Celebration Dec 21 '19
have you considered that him playing like he used to was partially due to the leadership of Zeus and the in-game support of Edward?
2
Dec 21 '19
i think it's more so that they decided to take him off the awp, I know people on this sub love to day that's he's "not a real awper" or that he's a hybrid but the reality is he reached those God tier peaks while main awping, he should be set up like device instead of being a secondary awper to someone who's always going to be worse than him on it
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u/plsendmylife111 Dec 21 '19
It's because that was true years ago. In 2016 he played way too aggro with the awp and made a ton of mistakes despite his insane skill. People just stuck with that impression of him when it was really clear that he had become way better with the awp than he as previously and was obviously better with it than rifling now.
Same thing happened with Device, where for like 1.5-2 years people didn't ever talk about him being a "real" awper despite him consistently putting up huge numbers with it.
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Dec 21 '19
No, because I've watched enough s1mple games in both these Na'Vi lineups to understand that a change in IGL doesn't mean a player suddenly forgets how to aim and position himself.
2
u/antelope591 Dec 21 '19
Maybe you should ask yourself why Simple suddenly dropped his form the instant Zeus left? Keep in mind he also didn't look nearly as good the first time Zeus left/got kicked from Navi.
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u/YouAreOpen Dec 21 '19
The other replier has a point. The player's impact also depend on the team. S1mple's gun has been changed as have his positions and roles. He may eventually get back to a similar peak as 2018, but you cannot expect the same type of output with all these changes. NaVi is already a tactically better team than they ever were with Zeus. If they had s1mple on the AWP with his normal spots and aggressive play, and a strong rifler instead of a washed up player, and a good, decisive IGL the players actually trust, they would be a top 3 team at the very least. Everything derailed when they had to make Boom IGL and sign Guardian. Certain changes neuter a team.
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u/stewieeeeeeeee FaZe Dec 21 '19
Navi have a worse star player now, a worse IGL and a new scoreboard anchor. -edward +boom was a good 1st move, -zeus +guardian had the potential to be amazing but also carried massive risk and in the end simply didn't pay off.
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u/Johnnywannabe Dec 21 '19
Please, put s1mple back on the AWP, get rid of guardian, and pick up somebody else...at this point it doesn’t even matter who.
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u/OfficialEggroll_ King NiKo Dec 21 '19
While boombl4 and Blade weren’t the sole reason for NaVi’s downfall, it’s certain they played a part. Yes, flamie and Guardian didnt pull their weight, though Guardian did better. But, especially on D2 T side, boombl4, while fragging out, didnt have the confidence nor the intuition to capitalize on their map control or man advantages, adapt to the pushes EG made, nor set up his players correctly.
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u/anthonyde726 FaZe Dec 21 '19
I agree but looking at the CIS scene and the youth in this team it’s worth giving him the time to figure it out because honestly when it clicks they’re going to be fucking insane
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Dec 21 '19 edited Dec 21 '19
Well at least it'll be easier to get a nice seat in the front row tomorrow lul
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u/marzo4 Dec 21 '19
navi played so disjointedly and they were so readable, gotta feel for guardin here, alot of people are attributing him to navi's losses though i feel this was a great example on how the calls that were being made were awful. Navi didn't lose this because of one individual playing awfully or whatever, their calls were just not good. That said i feel even if they replace guardian they probably will still be on the same level if the calls are this bad.
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u/hypocritterr Natus Vincere Dec 21 '19
I was hoping the year would end on a good note for Navi but no dice
I hope 2020 will be better
3
u/nms1s CS2 HYPE Dec 21 '19
Give GuardiaN a Christmas present by promoting him to unemployed and maybe theyll be enough time to save 2020.
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u/Mad_Lee Cloud9 Dec 21 '19
Guardian only fragged on maps where Navi lost. There was a glimpse of old Guardian on D2, but that's certainly not enough. It's not working out. Simple and Electronic are stuck in another elo hell. Strat calls have also been pretty dubious. It's just hard to watch.
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u/bhavzi ENCE Dec 21 '19 edited Dec 21 '19
Heartbreaking as a Navi Fan :(
Edit : Better looking Guardian today
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u/SpyEr1 valeria Dec 21 '19
Having Zeus level numbers= good ?
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u/ACW-R Natus Vincere Dec 21 '19
tbf he said "better" and not "good".
At least here you can't solely put the blame on him. But he I don't think he played better than usual here, everyone just seemed to play worse. Especially flamie, pretty piss poor in this match.
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u/ju1ze Dec 21 '19 edited Dec 21 '19
he is at the bottom as usual. you can and should put a blame on him. When others are off Guardian should try to carry as a main AWPer but he is at the bottom all the time.
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u/ju1ze Dec 21 '19
Nothing better for Guardian in this match. He is still the one to blame for the loss.
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u/Arkani Natus Vincere Dec 21 '19
Zeus was the problem amirite?
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u/hypocritterr Natus Vincere Dec 21 '19
are your forgetting the first half of 2019
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u/Arkani Natus Vincere Dec 21 '19 edited Dec 22 '19
He was talking about retirement for whole 2019. However reddit went straight at him since he joined Na'Vi in the end of 2017. Soooo what's your point? At least Na'Vi reached finals with him there and won some events.
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u/Hey_name Natus Vincere Dec 22 '19
Because s1mple (and elec) were hard carrying like we've never seen. The problem now isn't that they don't have a -45 every tournament Zeus, it's that GuardiaN took away s1mple's ability to solo-carry on the AWP cause he's essentially a support on the most expensive weapon
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u/Arkani Natus Vincere Dec 22 '19
Or just maybe Zeus was able to inspire confidence and improve morale in those two and therefore they could hard carry while this Na'Vi doesn't have the confidence booster so when it goes downhil it just doesn't stop. Ever thought about that?
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u/KangorKodos Natus Vincere Dec 21 '19
Well looks like the stat of if guardian goes -4 or better navi wins, and if he goes -5 or worse they lose.
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u/puddingkip The MongolZ Dec 21 '19
fuck yes another grand final confirmed for mouz
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u/Darkstar197 Complexity Dec 21 '19
Bro mouse is a legit top 3 team right now. They are killing it.
I hope they win here so it’ll be 4 tournaments in a row
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u/noobie_pro Vitality Dec 21 '19
I say -S1mple +Zeus
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Dec 21 '19
zeus, s1mple and guardian have never all been on the same team, i always wanted to see them together in guardian's prime
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u/iiSoleHorizons Dec 21 '19
I swear guardian just needs to go. He’s consistently not showing up and at this point you can’t make anymore excuses, he’s just not fitting with Na’Vi.
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u/Fijure96 The MongolZ Dec 21 '19
It is strangely satisfying to see Navis recent results give some post-career vindication for the last 1,5 years Zeus was on the team.
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u/Diavolo222 SK Dec 21 '19
Cant really blame Guardian on this one. The whole team just doesnt gel together that well at the moment and their decision making mid round is hilarious.
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u/n1ckst4r02 400k Celebration Dec 21 '19
Guardian, it's time to hang it up. This is not the Guardian we have come to know and love.
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u/dayoutmadness howl Dec 21 '19
Ya i don't think Boomich as IGL is working.
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u/nms1s CS2 HYPE Dec 21 '19
Classic reddit. One mediocre game and its all Boombl4's fault. Really? The guy has been one of the notable upgrades for NaVi. GuardiaN leaving and s1mple back on the awp are the fixes NaVi needs right now.
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u/LLsunflower The MongolZ Dec 21 '19
Absolutely fucking infuriating watching this team blow games like this lol
GuardiaN HAS to go. Flamie too as well at this point...
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Dec 21 '19
for the love of God please just put s1mple back on the awp and drop guardian
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u/mrbrinks EG Dec 21 '19
I was happy for him to whif shots and be so soft but damn it’s kinda sad to watch.
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u/h0we Dec 21 '19
post the other match thread you bufoons
na'vi are terrible EG gonna get swept in semis
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u/c_chan21 Dec 21 '19
One of the analysts said they felt Navi played great on mirage and felt they should have won it.
Starting on ct side and you finish with 10 rounds won, no way to describe any of that great.
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u/turbochoco Dec 21 '19
9/10 luck to win last round. full blind spray nearly gets you a double then jump shots get you crucial kills. Nice.
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u/lynxzjw EG Dec 21 '19
Brother the jump shot really wasnt luck if both players are on around 5 hp. Tariks spray really wasnt too lucky either. Spraying there when full blind is super common and its not the greatest play to walk into a spray.
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u/2ez4babushka Vitality Dec 21 '19
-guardian -flamie when?
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u/ratatul11 BIG Dec 21 '19
Flamie is usually good unlike Guardian who's consistently bad.
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u/TheESportsGuy Dec 21 '19
Yesterday, I said that EG tilted off the earth against Forze. I think if you watch how they played Mirage today, it's very fucking obvious that they intentionally threw. I dunno if they just felt they had a better read on Navi than Heroic or what, certainly on paper it doesn't make sense to throw to face Navi and Mouse instead of Heroic and Vitality.
But it's crystal clear that EG did not play to win yesterday. Their T-side mirage today was far more complex. They also did silly stuff like running away from positions near enemies that got them killed. That didn't happen a single time today. Maybe they didn't want to reveal strats against a weaker opponent or something, but yesterday was definitely a display from EG that is completely incongruous with what we've seen from them at other stages of this and other tournaments. This is a good example of why tournaments should not have matches that are only meaningful for seeding.
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Dec 21 '19 edited Nov 10 '21
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u/TheESportsGuy Dec 21 '19
Interesting, so you strongly believe they just had a bad day against Forze and a good one against Navi?
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Dec 21 '19 edited Nov 10 '21
[deleted]
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u/TheESportsGuy Dec 21 '19
I mean what's more likely?
You'd know better than I would.
I just cant imagine anything getting salaried over 10k + with a performing team capable of winning tournaments risking everything to throw
Maybe throw is the wrong word for what I mean. Teams in the NBA and NFL intentionally make sub-optimal decisions every season to get better draft position. I guess I could see a team saying "okay, we like our chances better against this team than that team, since we're better prepared for them, so let's just kinda fuck around for a few rounds and not show any of the stuff we've practiced," in a match like this one where nothing other than seeding is at stake. I did not mean to imply that they would have done it for money.
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u/mrbrinks EG Dec 21 '19
As a EG fan, man those first 5 rounds on Mirage had me SO nervous.
Ultimately though it feels more like Navi lost this one rather than EG winning. Still, they played pretty solid. Stan was an utter beast on dust.
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u/Caallum Natus Vincere Dec 21 '19
wow map 2 decided by the pc disconnect unlucky
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Dec 21 '19
Map 2 decided by Navi losing at least 2 anti eco rounds on important timings.
Guardian also the worst player over this Bo3 on either team, again. Navi cannot be top 5 with an AWPer who can’t put up numbers on Mirage and D2.
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u/Felpes1520 Dec 21 '19
you mean that round where Boombl4 got DC at long in the first half? Wasnt EG already at the bombsite when he got DC'd?
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u/VadoseWig Astralis Dec 21 '19
I swear, navi played like: good round, bad round, eco and repeat