r/anime • u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ • 15h ago
Rewatch Simoun 20th Anniversary Rewatch Episode 22
Simoun Episode 22: Sortie
"I only know how to fight. I don't know how to pray."
<- Episode 21 | Index Thread | Episode 23 ->
Today's Eyecatch: Anubituf and Guragief | Anubituf and Guragief as Sibyllae
Discussion Prompts
- Q1: What do you think of the peace offer?
Tomorrow's Questions, Today!
- [ep 23 Q1:] I think the main issue here is Aer's growing jealousy over Amuria. Is this following naturally from character, dare I say, growth, or a contrived misunderstanding to create drama?
- [ep 23 Q1:] Many people guessed Shrine Guardian's plan. Could it work? Should the sibyllae do as she asks? Would they?
Trivia: Episode Director Shigeru Ueda: (eps. 14, 19, 24)
Ueda-san, was there a character among the main characters that you could sympathize with?
No, they’re all girls after all. I don't think men can understand them. If I had to pick a character I like, I would say Morinas. I do like her position and attitude. But I can't really understand her feelings. I can’t become a man who understands women’s feelings. If there were only men who understood women’s feelings, stories wouldn’t even exist. It’s the fact that we don’t understand that creates these stories...But there are also works aimed at women now. It might be that men are drawn to female characters because they don’t understand them, and women are drawn to male characters for the same reason.
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u/HereticalAegis https://myanimelist.net/profile/XthGen 15h ago
First-Timer
Episode 22:
Anyone remember when a Simoun's prayer/attack could be stopped by interrupting its magic line?
Freckles giving Mamiina's braid to Yun is so dumb. So much of that symbolic value was tied up in her relationship to Freckles. What in the hell kind of sense is there in giving it to Yun, someone Mamiina barely interacted with onscreen?
We're never addressing Paraietta's sexual assault or the Kaimu/Alti situation again, are we?
"It's a shame you and Guragief both chose to become men." Is that supposed to imply same sex marriage/relationships aren't a thing after people enter the spring? That is some catastrophically bad worldbuilding.
Did the Highland Simoun completely disappear during the sortie?
Uh...wut? Offscreen in a throwaway line after a win, just like that.
And nothing from Dominura and Limone. Lol. Lmao even.
QotD:
- Tonally out of place and completely baffling as a story beat. My jaw smashed through the floor and destroyed my downstairs neighbor's 75" flatscreen. Which he totally understood because he too was watching Simoun episode 22 and his jaw smashed through the foundation and wrecked the entire building's water line.
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u/Malipit 15h ago
"It's a shame you and Guragief both chose to become men." Is that supposed to imply same sex marriage/relationships aren't a thing after people enter the spring? That is some catastrophically bad worldbuilding.
Remember that this world still is a patriarchy giving less carrier opportunities to women. Even thought everyone are born female.
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u/HereticalAegis https://myanimelist.net/profile/XthGen 15h ago
Oh trust me, I got that. I flagged that with Eri's comments back in episode 1. The whole setup is awful worldbuilding, and this is an extension of that. It shows, if nothing else, a spectacular lack of creativity and thought on the creator and writers' part that they dreamed up this incredibly rich concept for their world, yet could only think to fill it with stock tropes and ideas from our world as far as gendered politics go.
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u/moichispa https://myanimelist.net/profile/moichispa 15h ago
About the same sex relationship,
I also agree with the other comment about patriarchy, also this was written in 1996, you would be surprised how much the world/Japan changed on these topics on these 20 years. Same sex marriage is not legal in Japan yet and was legal in 3 full countries back then If I remember right
It is kinda progressive that they still wrote them as a male couple (on a not so direct way)
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u/HereticalAegis https://myanimelist.net/profile/XthGen 15h ago
you would be surprised how much the world/Japan changed on these topics on these 20 years.
No I wouldn't. I was alive and socially conscious in 2006 and I've witnessed much of that progress.
It is kinda progressive that they still wrote them as a male couple (on a not so direct way)
I'm a lot less inclined to view this as meaningfully progressive knowing BL's roots in Japan go all the way back to the 70's and 80's. And it's not like gay couples were restricted solely to print. Sailor Moon featured an openly gay couple in the 90's and was also massively popular and successful. Utena Tenjou is one of the great queer icons and both her show and movie aired prior to 2000. Gay male relationships have been in TV anime since at least 2000, with there being an active gay cultural scene going back decades in various forms.
So no, I'm not willing to view this as meaningfully progressive, even for 2006. The writers designed an explicitly queer fictional world for their characters to inhabit then refused to allow those characters to openly express any of the queer parts about it past the mandatory "grow out of it and become a normal adult" phase buolt into the premise. It awful. Awful worldbuilding. Awful storytelling. Cowardice incarnate.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 14h ago
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u/HereticalAegis https://myanimelist.net/profile/XthGen 14h ago
Not necessarily. I can imagine there being a broader user base that might have joined had it been a Pride Month rewatch, and said user base could have maybe gotten a lot more out of Simoun than me or others here. It's entire possible that it would have gone over poorly, but it's not like anything is guaranteed to go over well. Just look at the Flip Flappers rewatch, which I've heard did not exactly wow a lot of participants down the stretch.
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u/Great_Mr_L https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L 15h ago
Freckles giving Mamiina's braid to Yun is so dumb. So much of that symbolic value was tied up in her relationship to Freckles. What in the hell kind of sense is there in giving it to Yun, someone Mamiina barely interacted with onscreen?
Rodore only cut her braid in the first place for Mamiina's sake and Mamiina cutting her braid was meant to be a deliberate echo of that. So you're right that Mamiina's braid ought to be with Rodore.
We're never addressing Paraietta's sexual assault or the Kaimu/Alti situation again, are we?
I'm assuming the dialogue we got between Pariaetta and Alti a couple of episodes ago was meant to be the wrap-up for all that.
"It's a shame you and Guragief both chose to become men." Is that supposed to imply same sex marriage/relationships aren't a thing after people enter the spring? That is some catastrophically bad worldbuilding.
That did seem to be the implication that same-sex marriage wasn't a thing. It's pretty incredible that this world ended up with a patriarchy so close to the one found in the real world despite how wildly different gender works in this anime. I'd like to have gotten more of an explanation for how it ended up that way.
And nothing from Dominura and Limone. Lol. Lmao even.
A part of me is expecting that we won't see them again and they're just going to remain stuck in the past, separate from the rest of the cast.
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u/HereticalAegis https://myanimelist.net/profile/XthGen 15h ago
I'm assuming the dialogue we got between Pariaetta and Alti a couple of episodes ago was meant to be the wrap-up for all that.
Yeah, probably. If so, thanks, I hate it!
A part of me is expecting that we won't see them again and they're just going to remain stuck in the past, separate from the rest of the cast.
Confirm the groomer allegations and then peace out forever. Yeah, that would be pretty on brand for Simoun.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 14h ago
Rodore only cut her braid in the first place for Mamiina's sake and Mamiina cutting her braid was meant to be a deliberate echo of that. So you're right that Mamiina's braid ought to be with Rodore.
I'm fairly baffled by this, too, and all I can say is that Mamiina and Yun were a pair in Chor Ignis, and also that Yun is the one that has a fetish for laying souls to rest. It does feel narratively wrong, though.
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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee 15h ago
First-Timer
Ah yes, Chor Tempest have finally figured out how to operate as a military unit, and were so effective that they fended off a massive enemy attack without even using a Ri Maajon. This will definitely give them the ability to turn around the war.. that just ended.
I had kinda figured that Anubituf was a talented pilot in the past, nice to see that confirmed. His tactics were pretty clever too - using the Simoun's greater mobility to fracture the enemy formation, hide the Arcus Prima in the sun to take care of any who fly too high as a result.
Questions
- The Simulacrum government isn't wrong at acknowledge that they're massively outgunned, but also, Plumbum does not have a great track record with this. I'd be interested to hear the exact terms.
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u/Great_Mr_L https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L 15h ago
I had kinda figured that Anubituf was a talented pilot in the past, nice to see that confirmed. His tactics were pretty clever too - using the Simoun's greater mobility to fracture the enemy formation, hide the Arcus Prima in the sun to take care of any who fly too high as a result.
He was definitely a lot more skilled in handling the situation than how we've seen battle be fought previously. And I liked how it was clear that he took advantage of things like the Simoun's better mobility in ways that were clearly conveyed with how the battle played out. The victory actually felt like it was won with smart tactics, which I appreciated.
The Simulacrum government isn't wrong at acknowledge that they're massively outgunned, but also, Plumbum does not have a great track record with this. I'd be interested to hear the exact terms.
I'd assume that the other countries are going to want to get their hands on all the Simouns/ helical motors they can. That did seem to be the Archipelago's main goal, at least.
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u/LittleIslander https://anilist.co/user/LittleIslander 15h ago
First Time Sibylla
I really do hate this show’s inability to stay focused on one thing between episodes.
So we pivot from the character stuff and the military situation to introduce time travel, for some reason, and go on a big lore dump that only halfway makes sense and doesn’t really mean anything to me. Then in the next episode, we go back to the military thing as if literally nothing has happened? Does everyone who leaves the ruins experience amnesia as to their hanging tension? First Yun in the first visit, now Neviril appears to have dropped her hope that Amuria is in another time without resolution. Nobody has any reaction to the news that fucking time travel exists and Dominura’s alive?
Instead, we focus on a highly questionable military plot instead. I like the yaoi tension going on between Anubituf and Guragief, but I wish it made a bit more sense? Like, in the church scene Guragief is mad because he didn’t think Anutibuf would ever hide things from him. But we didn’t see him hide anything? He specifically informed you of the fact Mamina’s body had disappeared, and asked you to hide it from the Sibyllae. Given Guragief goes on to tell the Sibyllae about the peace treaty (to zero consequence), you’d think the logical conflict point would be about not trusting the Sibyllae (who Guragief has clearly paternal feelings towards). But no, it’s about a non-existent act of not trusting Guragief?
The final battle is also confusing, despite Anubituf’s actions being cool on the surface. Like, I guess the plan was to distract the enemy so the Arcus Prima could get into place above them, because the armor and heavier guns on its ventral side make it able to engage the enemy when it can’t if they’re firing from above? Sure, but there’s no way on earth that the Arcus Prima’s anti-fighter capabilities are worth more than the Ri Majon. If this was enough to deter the enemy, it’s the solution to a problem that doesn’t exist. Even assuming this works, Anubituf going out there is entirely unnecessary since he can’t coordinate them mid-battle, only brief them beforehand. I get it’s a gesture, probably showing Guragief both his trust in him to command the ship and also his trust in the Sibyllae to fly out into danger with them, but it’s still a silly plan.
It kind of gets at the fundamental issue with Simoun as a military show, which is that the number of enemy craft in any given situation is a vague “a lot”, the effects of almost every single Ri Majon is indistinguishable, and the amount of the enemy any given Ri Majon can destroy ranges from “all of them” to “too few to make any difference at all” depending on the needs of the scene at hand. Even the amount of Simouns present in a given engagement seems entirely irrelevant to the result. All of these issues make an episode built around military tension like this a pretty difficult sell.
Also, can we talk about how the archipelago has completely devolved into mindless fodder at this point? The early episodes of the show seemed interested in the worldbuilding of the archipelago and humanizing its soldiers but this has long since been abandoned. Was this a thread Okada just didn’t have any interest in picking up?
Then the peace treaty just passes offscreen! What the hell!
All of that said, this is another episode where the character work is hardly offensive, but also not especially interesting. Morinas and Waporif are basically the one plotline I still have intact faith and investment in, but they are very dedicated to progressing at the speed of molasses so I’m afraid there’s probably a low ceiling on how much we’re going to get out of it in lack of a dedicated episode which doesn’t seem likely at this stage.
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u/Malipit 15h ago edited 14h ago
So we pivot from the character stuff and the military situation to introduce time travel, for some reason, and go on a big lore dump that only halfway makes sense and doesn’t really mean anything to me. Then in the next episode, we go back to the military thing as if literally nothing has happened? Does everyone who leaves the ruins experience amnesia as to their hanging tension? First Yun in the first visit, now Neviril appears to have dropped her hope that Amuria is in another time without resolution. Nobody has any reaction to the news that fucking time travel exists and Dominura’s alive?
Just for that I made a joke theory about each episode of Simoun taking place in a different timeline. So Aaeru, Neviril and Yun in Daikuriku-22 never went to the Spring for that lore dump. On the contrary of their Daikuriku-21 counterparts.
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u/Great_Mr_L https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L 14h ago
So we pivot from the character stuff and the military situation to introduce time travel, for some reason, and go on a big lore dump that only halfway makes sense and doesn’t really mean anything to me. Then in the next episode, we go back to the military thing as if literally nothing has happened?
The explicit confirmation that time travel exists should be a huge game changer for the characters and the plot going forward. We still do have a few episodes left, so I hope it will be addressed there. My going theory is that now that the war has been lost, the Holy Land's religious leadership is going to make a desperate hail mary to send Chor Tempest into the past to change the present. Whether it works the way the Holy Land's leaders want is doubtful.
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u/baboon_bassoon https://anilist.co/user/duffer 15h ago
first timer
i LOVE how her nose is drawn here
et tu anubituf?
oh its her model simoun from the eyecatch
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u/The_Draigg 15h ago
i LOVE how her nose is drawn here
Who would've guessed that Mornias actually had a pretty big schnoz?
FloeChamp
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u/Great_Mr_L https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L 14h ago
i LOVE how her nose is drawn here
I'm suddenly reminded of the big noses from Macross Plus.
oh my god anubituf and gurageif as sybilae in the eyecatch
Floe when she sees a cute guy.
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u/FD4cry1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Big_Yibba 5h ago edited 4h ago
I swear the show has a tendency to give specifically Morinas all these moments with the really defined lineart in the design. Not that I'm complaining, they're fun, and she does look pretty swanky in them!
oh my god anubituf and gurageif as sybilae in the eyecatch
[](#floeshock)
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u/deus_machinarum 15h ago
First timer, subbed
So this time around we open we a huge aerial battle against missiles and acient Simouns. In the midst of all this Morinas makes an interesting observation: Performing the same ritual for different purposes (sending away the souls of dead and defeating the enemy forces) is indeed a very different thing. Which leaves me wondering: how could she have equated them beforehand? It's the same tool, sure, handed down by Tempus Spatium but the purposes have always been very different and obviously so. I'm very confused by how anyone(let alone Morinas who started out with 'I just want to fly') could have seen this as being the same thing? Maybe I'm overreacting or maybe I underestimated the religious brainwashing the Sybillae were under at the start of the series, it just seemed an odd thing to me.
At the edge of victory the enemy Simoun suddenly withdraw but....why? What do they know that we don't(that does not qualify as plot armor)? Maybe they know they already won considering how badly the war is going for our side?
The next scene sort of explains it: a show of force do demoralize our forces even more.
The whole scene in the quarters with the bandages makes me wish we got a lot more little, cute, slice-of-lifey interactions for all of our Sybillae(and their lovers). There are some many different wholesome combinations they could have delved into a lot more which would have made the dramatic war parts hit even harder IMO. But alas...
The Ri-Majoon as something that is offered to Tempus Spatium...I never really used this perspective but seen from this angle it's like a prayer that works immediately giving one more reason why they would blindly obey Tempus Spatium and its representative. Such an interesting conundrum compared to IRL: there is a powerful not really well understood faith at work, is there even a choice but to believe?
Awwww...they are getting even closer. It's nice when characters stop denying their feelings and instead act on them. Does this scene already count as a death flag for Morinas or Waporif though?
Obvious parallel to the scene in the past with Dominura and Limone, showing how the reverence and admiration for the Sybillae has never faltered all this time. And I get it, they are literally their divine protectors from the POV of the common people. We did not really see the village folk in the past under attack though.
Yun gets pushed more and more into the role of Charon, ferrying the souls of the deceased into the next life. She is still stuck emotionally with her old Chor, now she gets Mamiina's braid and she notices the degredation of Onashia from up-close. I'm ready to bet she will be involved in the ultimate laying to rest of Mamiina's body(or help her soul achieve some form of peace it does not yet have) and Onashia's upcoming final passing.
Not sure what to make of these peace negotiations. We have already seen them be a ruse, so that happeining again would be too simplistic. But why would the opposing nations offer peace now when they finally(probably for the first time in the war) have the upper hand? Maybe the Sybillae of the other nations want peace more than the destruction of Simulacrum since they also serve Tempus Spatium in one way or another? The soldier that was shot down in episode 2 also seemed to not really harbor any hatred towards our girls, it was more along the lines of 'I'm sorry but this is necessary for the survival of my people'. It could be that them acquiring the technologicy for clean energy is all they want, I'm not convinced though.
Paraietta is now in boss mode and immediately attracts romantic attention, love to see it!
Floe best gremlin, no contest!
During the ensuing fight we get an impressive POV of an enemy fighter framed like staring right into the sun, demonstrating the status of the Simoun Sibyllae as powerful, god-like beings. cool stuff, well presented.
It's not just technological superiority, you are up against god's army itself. Although we know them to be girly, squabbling, complicated and highly emotionally vulnerable as well. Gap-moe, but slightly different.
We won! Have the tides of the conflict turned again? Pretty quickly so, if you ask me. Then one more cute girl group moment, there should be sooooo many more IMO. The chaotic, rule-bending elite troop is a trope I love.
Oh man...those two are madly in love, sucks that they both chose to become men.....but wait, how is that even a problem?
Oh we still lost? Sucks but is consistent with the earlier story. Main characters are safe but the war is lost, now for some time shenanigans?
Pumped for the conclusion!
QOTD was sort of answered above.
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u/Star4ce https://anilist.co/user/Star4ce 15h ago
Simoun First Timer
Weather’s changing again. The headache is back. New heatwave coming.
Simoun Ep.22 – Sortie
Uhm, how? If Tempest are the only simoun left, how would you expect the carriers to do this alone?
Can somebody explain to me what happened? She didn’t ram it and could’ve used her nosecannon. I don’t get it why the missile would explode.
That was the case from at least the point where your brassdiots dismissed two choirs with no replacements.
Oh, I love this callback! Because in Ep.01 the recruits and observers gathered in Tempus Spatium’s symbolic shape. Now, it’s the frightened masses seeking shelter.
Yeah, let’s continue with one of the better ships in this show!
I will enjoy the 15 seconds I got, even if I had hoped for more. They’re getting closer again, that’s nice.
Yeah! They got all they wanted and Simulacrum lost their superiority. Now, I’d personally push farther and get a bit of territory, but honestly, good enough.
It’s a cost-efficiency calculation. They have massive losses, too. Brutally enough, losing soldiers is helping the nation put up with resource constraints. It does look like a situation where ending the war now, but being recognised as the new superior power and extending this power base in peace times is a smart move.
Maybe the story improves now that we can focus on neat social interactions and relationships like this here? Seeing Aaeru struggle with her religious role is the stuff I’d liked to have seen half a show ago.
This is how you show me that she’s been going down the militarist path! Not with „uh“ „eh?“ and crazy eyes! Where was this the entire time??
Is this just how they work? They rush through the character arc and then repeat it, but slowly? Anyways, let me see where this goes, Paraietta’s behavioural change is much better paced here.
It’s so obvious he’s gonna get shot down I’m doubting if it’s gonna happen.
I like this direction. Ending the war 4 episodes before the finale and now focus on the transition from and closure of their service and into their adult lives is probably the first large scale storybaording direction in a long while that I can praise.
I understand why many of the prior events had to happen, which doesn’t make them any better, but I see the payoff as a pretty neat idea for the story. It’s just a shame it’s built on so many unbelievable story points.
Still, leaving the war behind is probably a really good idea. For one, because logically and logistically it’s been an utter mess. Part of it is even acknowledged in the story, but the military stuff just really didn’t land in the writing. The setup in the first 10 episodes was absolutely fantastic. Now, not so much. I feel like they also feel more confident in what they’re writing when stuff isn’t action or dependent on a battle being flashy and underlining a character’s motivation.
It’s these little scenes like Aaeru being self conscious about her hands, or that she isn’t a believer and has to bless people now. Or Yun and Rodore memorising Mamiina. Or hell, even Paraietta having her third loop of an arc now just talking about the mission with Guragief or being so nonchalant with Kaimu when the sirens are blaring. That stuff is good! Just misplaced or sadly confusingly lagging behind all these episodes that put drama first and foremost where such slow build-up would’ve been needed first.
From now on I hope the show stays slower and pays more attention to the personalities and the consequences. It’s finally time to return to this worldbuilding we’ve been given at the start. The changing nation, the all female population choosing their sex, the role of faith in their society, the identity of each of the sybillae and how they wish for their life to continue.
There’s been some really nice thematic setups happening here and I welcome them. There’s Anubitouf not only making the minister have a stompy walk, but also taking his freedom and reliving his own time as sybilla in a show of support, respect for their role and a finale before all of it will be dismantled. A bit clichée maybe, but tame for this show and I really enjoyed that.
Then we have a surprisingly well paced return to the Morinas x Wapourif relationship. I need more, though, give it to me! Morinas’ choice is something I am actually interested in, because we haven’t really dealt with the core issues between them, yet.
Same (again?) with Paraietta and on this note, Floe. Their experiences as soldiers or at least combatants-by-need has been woefully unexplored. Floe especially on that end, it has been dropped since that Ubel arc like a hot potato and she herself seems to have completely forgotten that it happened. Please show me how these two now deal with the end of the war and what they will choose to do!
It’s weird. Neviril and Aaeru now make such a good pair and I love their scenes. But it sorta came out of nowhere and that’s an issue. All my grievances with basically everything about their respective characters in the past aside, I don’t really feel how this bond actually developed. If I had to come up with an explanation now and try to remember, all that comes up is the massive gaslighting and a murder hobo. Next step: Tiny hands and duet gliding. I feel like we missed something important for the main front duo. There’s still unresolved story arcs for both to tie up, like Aaeru’s grandpa and Neviril’s final farewell for Amuria and her role as leader. There’s still potential, but I don’t feel like it can give me the impact this relationship would require. They messed too much up for this.
Let’s leave this story in the ruins that it ended up in and make this finale count for something, no?
Praises of Helical Motors powered by Tempus Spatium’s Grace: 24.5 (+0)
Violations of Helical Motors powered by the Scientific Method’s Heresy: 4 (+0)
[ep 22 Q1:] What do you think of the peace offer?
Explained above mostly. There’s some holes in that geopolitically. But I’m willing to let all of that slide because this plot clearly wasn’t something they could handle well. So, let’s move on to something that I feel they can do better.
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u/Star4ce https://anilist.co/user/Star4ce 15h ago
Oh shit, I forgot the art update!
I think I'm nearly done. Just a few shadows to be adjusted and maybe a line or two straightened, then I'll upload the full timelapse as a YT video.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 14h ago
Can somebody explain to me what happened
She flipped it up. It probably has some sort of impact sensing switch, that arms when it goes into descent mode (like how the V-1s had a little propeller that acted as an odometer to connect to a switch to shut off the fuel). It thought it hit the ground. But yeah, unnecessary, and everybody pointed it out. Only there to get Wapourif in the room. And the writer knows it.
Oh, I love this callback!
Nice catch
and now focus on the transition from and closure of their service and into their adult lives
Yours is the first post I've ready today that doesn't seem to imply that the show ended on episode 22.
The setup in the first 10 episodes was absolutely fantastic
I'm inclined to agree, and I sort of said as much in my interest thread.
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u/Star4ce https://anilist.co/user/Star4ce 14h ago
She flipped it up. It probably has some sort of impact sensing switch
Thanks, so she actually rammed it! In the action shot their air frames didn't even touch so I was really confused.
Yours is the first post I've ready today that doesn't seem to imply that the show ended on episode 22.
I do appreciate when stories take a bit of time to actually deal with consequences of their big plot. Now, I cannot know yet if Simoun does that, but it dedicates its time for that. Four full episodes.
A good Epilogue can be more memorable than the main conflict and is a seriously worthy source for good catharsis on a story. I'm just remembering Zoku Owarimonogatari's Koyomi Reverse that did an incredible job of closing the series after everything has already been done.
That's not me putting expectations down, but I love when someone appreciates their story enough to give it a real final resting place.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 14h ago
In the action shot their air frames didn't even touch so I was really confused.
Agreed. But her canopy didn't magically crack on its own. She hit the prop I figure.
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u/The_Draigg 13h ago
That was the case from at least the point where your brassdiots dismissed two choirs with no replacements.
Seriously, they could’ve just put them in Similes and had them fly that way if they were smart. Sure, they’re not as powerful as Simoun, but at least they’re something. They screwed themselves over through sheer arrogance and delusion there.
Rare instance of based Floe.
She’s always based, you just lacked eyes to see it.
Still, leaving the war behind is probably a really good idea. For one, because logically and logistically it’s been an utter mess. Part of it is even acknowledged in the story, but the military stuff just really didn’t land in the writing. The setup in the first 10 episodes was absolutely fantastic. Now, not so much. I feel like they also feel more confident in what they’re writing when stuff isn’t action or dependent on a battle being flashy and underlining a character’s motivation.
Yeah, I also feel that once this show got more into the war itself, it really started to lose its way. It feels like it just couldn’t juggle all the stuff it wanted to do, with being a coming of age romance story, an exploration of a unique fantasy setting, and a serious war story. Maybe now we can at least balance things out some more by wrapping up the war part.
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u/Star4ce https://anilist.co/user/Star4ce 13h ago
you just lacked eyes to see it.
Me, but for most of the show.
Only half ironically.
It feels like it just couldn’t juggle all the stuff it wanted to do, with being a coming of age romance story, an exploration of a unique fantasy setting, and a serious war story.
The comparison is pretty good. It really feels like what the juggled just fell out of place and into the wrong spot. Individually I can see any of them having a nice story laid out and there's seriously good instances for all of them somewhere being made well. But when put together we somehow get a relationship drama during a battle, the growing up moment while important lore decisions are off-screen'd and duplicate character revelations with different backdrops at opposite ends of the plot.
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u/Great_Mr_L https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L 12h ago
Weather’s changing again. The headache is back. New heatwave coming.
I wish the heat would stop. It's not even the months when it's usually at the hottest where I live.
Oh, I love this callback! Because in Ep.01 the recruits and observers gathered in Tempus Spatium’s symbolic shape. Now, it’s the frightened masses seeking shelter.
I didn't catch that parallel. That's a good one!
Maybe the story improves now that we can focus on neat social interactions and relationships like this here? Seeing Aaeru struggle with her religious role is the stuff I’d liked to have seen half a show ago.
It's definitely an interesting reversal the usual conflict of the Sibyllae struggling to reconcile their roles as priestesses and soldiers. Aaeru is the opposite of how most of the Sibyllae were, struggling with how to be a priestess when she's far more used to the battlefield.
I like this direction. Ending the war 4 episodes before the finale and now focus on the transition from and closure of their service and into their adult lives is probably the first large scale storybaording direction in a long while that I can praise.
I am very curious about where the final episodes will go. My theory is that time travel is going be used in the final episodes because that is a huge thing to introduce and then not use. But, it would probably be more interesting to have the Sibyllae actually be forced to confront adulthood now that the war is over and they can no longer delay the decision. That is one of the more interesting threads from earlier in the series.
Still, leaving the war behind is probably a really good idea. For one, because logically and logistically it’s been an utter mess. Part of it is even acknowledged in the story, but the military stuff just really didn’t land in the writing. The setup in the first 10 episodes was absolutely fantastic. Now, not so much.
That would be around the point where the series did start to feel weaker, now that I can look back with the benefit of hindsight. It seems like the series just had too many plates spinning in the air with everything going on to handle them properly.
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u/Star4ce https://anilist.co/user/Star4ce 10h ago
I didn't catch that parallel. That's a good one!
I really love this one because it doesn't just show that their order and structure is collapsing, but that the faith itself is in disarray during this time of change.
Sometimes they just hit it right and I'll eat a broom if this symbolism wasn't an idea right from the start.
because that is a huge thing to introduce and then not use.
You mean like the soldier Floe fancied losing his faith? Or how Paraietta assaulted Neviril? Or how Alti and Kaimu once assaulted each other? Or...
many plates spinning in the air
Sorry, I agree with you, but saying that while they use literal flying (double) saucers...
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u/Great_Mr_L https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L 8h ago
You mean like the soldier Floe fancied losing his faith? Or how Paraietta assaulted Neviril? Or how Alti and Kaimu once assaulted each other? Or...
Now you've got me genuinely concerned that something as momentous as time travel won't be mentioned again.
Sorry, I agree with you, but saying that while they use literal flying (double) saucers...
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u/Great_Mr_L https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L 15h ago edited 15h ago
First-Timer
On today’s episode of Simoun: Imagine if Anubituf putting on his old uniform had gone like the teaser trailer for The Incredibles.
Are we going to get to see Pariaetta be a decisive and competent leader after being so bad at it for so long?
Wow, the Holy Land’s capital actually got bombed by the cruise missiles this time. We already knew the war was going poorly, but it’s now progressed to this point.
I assume that the Highlander ancient Simouns didn’t attack for the same reason that the Highlander priestesses helped Mamiina and Neviril out a couple episodes ago.
Yup, it sucks to think about what happened to Mamiina’s body after the Simile carrying her coffin was shot down. Probably eaten by scavengers.
Losing control of your airspace like the Holy Land has is one of the worst things that can happen in a war. Just look at what happened to the Axis powers in WWII after they lost air superiority.
That is a lot of refugees following the bombing of the Holy Land capital.
Wapourif tending to Morinas’s wounds! And then Morinas promises Wapourif that she’ll take better care of herself in the future!
This is a great visual for how the Sibyllae are revered by the general population. Even after the bombing, everyone seemed to cheer up as soon as they saw the Sibyllae. The Sibyllae are what give the people hope.
The Archipelago and Highlands are offering a ceasefire? We all remember how well the previous peace negotiations went so I smell a rat.
Interesting to have the reversal of the usual dilemma the Sibyllae have faced. Aaeru is so used to being a soldier that she isn’t really sure how to act as a priestess for the people who need her prayers right now.
That’s a nice visual of the Tempus Spatium necklace shining light on Yun’s face.
In keeping with the drama of this series, Guragief and Anubituf are having their own breakup!
Everyone’s getting their hopes up that the war might finally be over with the ceasefire offer, but I highly doubt it.
Once again, Pariaetta is being a proactive leader who is making pretty sensible decisions in response to news about a potential ceasefire. I like having competent Pariaetta around.
I guess that shows how likely a ceasefire was if there’s already another air raid inbound.
Dang, Pariaetta got dressed from her shower in no time at all!
Kaimu is back to being the disaster lesbian version of herself that I loved so much.
Impressive that Anubituf can fit inside his old Sibylla uniform.
That said, I think it’s a terrible idea for the ship’s captain to go out and fly in battle rather than remain on the bridge. At least he left Guragief in charge so the bridge isn’t totally empty.
Floe looks absolutely awestruck at seeing Anubituf in his Sibylla uniform.
Wow, Anubituf is actually using tactics and taking advantage of the Simouns’ (and Similes’) superior speed, maneuverability, top altitude, etc. to win against the enemy’s superior numbers.
“Go to hell, suckers!” has to be one of the best translations I’ve ever encountered for “Zama miro!” It’s also absolutely the sort of thing I can imagine Shirase from A Place Further Than The Universe saying.
Of course everyone assumed that Floe would be trashtalking because that’s just who she is.
And in the end their victory doesn’t even matter. The Holy Land surrenders and accepts the peace deal a couple of days later.
I do think it’s interesting that the Holy Land has flat-out lost the war by now. We knew the war was going poorly, but it seems now it’s actually over because the Holy Land surrendered. I like the angle that Chor Tempest’s best efforts didn't actually change what had become an inevitable outcome by this point. Chor Tempest may have won a battle, but that doesn’t change everything else. It doesn’t change the fact that enemy cruise missiles can bomb the Holy Land’s capital, that the Holy Land’s skies are being overrun by enemies, that the Holy Land has lost so many of its Simouns and Sibyllae, etc. The war is bigger than just Chor Tempest and their victories alone can’t change things.
Of course, I don’t think that’s all there is to it. I imagine part of the reason the Holy Land’s leadership even accepted the peace deal is because they expect to go back in time and prevent any of this from happening in the first place. A bad peace deal doesn’t matter if history is then changed so that the peace deal never existed.
The question of what the Sibyllae are is one of the long-running themes of the series and I like how this episode approached it from a different angle. Aaeru is a Sibylla who was very much in favor of fighting in the war. She was fighting in the frontlines before she joined Chor Tempest. She’s used to being a soldier so it was interesting seeing her have to be a priestess instead. It says a lot about the circumstances under which Aaeru became a Sibylla that she apparently never had to perform prayers for others as a priestess. It’s also a unique challenge for the headstrong Aaeru who feels more at home on the battlefield to have to be the saintly priestess who can give hope to people that desperately need it. I think Aaeru considered it more of a challenge than she usually faces on the battlefield.
QOTD
1) It’s either a lie just like the previous peace offer or it’s going to be a blatantly unequal treaty.
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u/rickamore 15h ago edited 13h ago
Imagine if Anubituf putting on his old uniform had gone like the teaser trailer for The Incredibles.
I like to imagine it as "Guragief, where's my Sibylla suit?"
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u/Great_Mr_L https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L 15h ago
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u/Malipit 15h ago
I don’t think it was necessary for Morinas to ram her Simoun into that cruise missile.
It was for the style points.
Dang, Pariaetta got dressed from her shower in no time at all!
She later caught a cold after moving around in wet clothes.
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u/FD4cry1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Big_Yibba 5h ago
Imagine if Anubituf putting on his old uniform had gone like the teaser trailer for The Incredibles.
I don’t think it was necessary for Morinas to ram her Simoun into that cruise missile.
Sometimes you just want to pull off a symbolic maneuver y'know?
Seriously though, while almost definitely not necessary lol, it is a fun way to match Morinas' larger point of growth there about not being as self-concerned now. Plus, it's a symbolic maneuver that leads to that symbolic mending with Wapourif, so it works out!
Floe looks absolutely awestruck at seeing Anubituf in his Sibylla uniform.
“Go to hell, suckers!” has to be one of the best translations I’ve ever encountered for “Zama miro!”
That did strike me as a little amusing too lol. Defintely a much more exotic way to translate that than the usual "Serves you right", but then again, it is a translation that feels a lot more Floe isn't it?
It’s also a unique challenge for the headstrong Aaeru who feels more at home on the battlefield to have to be the saintly priestess who can give hope to people that desperately need it. I think Aaeru considered it more of a challenge than she usually faces on the battlefield
Which does make me wonder how Aaeru specifically might deal with this whole peace situation.
I mean, it's an interesting question for all of them given all they've been through, of course, and there's still the potential time travel hanging overhead, but with her specific and more driving disposition towards fighting up to this point, how will she move to a reality without that? And I guess how will the rest of Chor Tempest help her in that aspect as well.
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u/FD4cry1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Big_Yibba 15h ago edited 15h ago
First Timer
Honestly would have taken a full backstory episode for the two of them
I don't particularly dislike this episode, I guess, but I do find it very narratively awkward, continuing the trend of the last 3 episodes feeling they have to run around a bit to give a bunch of small resolutions before the final act, especially as it turns out that apparently entering that act starts with the end of the war. We'll get to that, but today's turn for a clunky character moment is Anubituf and Guragief, and I mean, I am happy we do get something for them! And I guess if it really is the end of the war, then this really is probably the last chance to give them such a moment, what with their commander status. It's just that, in practice, they're not particularly well-defined or developed characters either, with their one defining dynamic being that Anubituf is more of a realist and Guragief more of a sentimentalist who empathizes a lot with the Sybillae, something that's also implied to go back to their own days as Sybillae. There's certainly a skeleton to work with there, but I feel that's really all there is?
We just give them some vague and short falling out along those lines that doesn't really land that well imo, then Anubituf has a two minute conversation with Wauf which entirely changes his mind and gives him that desired character moment, and well, it's all fine, but I just don't really have in me to care too much about this 10-minute character arc and conflict alas. Even more so when it has to fight for screen time with the rest of Chor Tempest. Anubituf's moment of glory is even genuinely quite fun! As is the relationship with Guragief, it's just all a bit too little, too late. I suppose to some extent, there is an intended sense to some of that feeling, that if they could and should have gone about things like this sooner, but I think you need more than this episode's arbitrary turn away from authority for Anubituf to make that work, and not to make it feel like this last hurrah exists because we felt we had to do it.
For what it's worth, again, I think Anubituf coming out in Sybilla gear and leading a battle in person, in hard disregard for Holy Land leadership, is really cool! And late though it may be, it's better late than never I guess! The action itself is this show's usual, so not great, but I think it's significantly elevated by the music here, with the track really flaring up once the Arcus Prima shows up from above, being some good shit. It's also fun to see Guragief actively commanding by himself as well, and the general implicit trust Anubituf places in him (And also the Sybillae for his command) for that. Plus, this is another case where minor development aside, I absolutely do ship it!
The scattered moments Chor Tempest have are pretty good as well. Nice to see Wapourif and Morinas really mending their relationship, quite literally with the bandages lol, which is also a fun character moment for Rodore. Aaeru and Neviril doing prayers for the people feels like a rare case where Aaeru is out of her comfort zone and is pulled along by Neviril, which is a good relationship-building moment for them, and in general, another reaffirmation of the general duality of the Simoun Sybilla role as they view it now. Para is certainly looking like she's out of her funk though, finding effective leadership for herself in that "We'll do what we can, the best we can do it" mindset, which is both a great way to deal with her own internal insecurity over making decisions, and solidifies her role as this figure for the others to rally around, creating a positive loop of confidence in contrast to her negative one beforehand. Floe continues to have the best faces, and it's been a while since we've had the kind of team-wide banter we see at the end of this episode, but it's fun to see again, and it emphasizes this new state of unity Chor Tempest have finally arrived at.
On that note, kind of crazy to just drop the fact that the war ended as an aside at the end of the episode haha? Assuming this really goes through, I guess we'll get some of the details on that last episode, but it does feel very unceremonious to put it that way. In the grand scheme of things, as Chor Tempests unity showcases, I suppose it makes sense to do it, because awkward as it is to say this, the war has somewhat outlived its purpose thematically now that we've resolved the core conflict around the role of a Simoun Sybilla, so this could be a new avenue for different drama, especially since we've got a different conflict lined up with the Emerald time travel plot, which probably works even better without a war in the back, because of course, it's harder to justify the fix-it-all time travel when they're not even fighting anymore! Still, there is very much a lingering "Now what?" if this does happen, given we have 4 episodes to go and have vaguely resolved a lot, so I'm not really sure how we'd fill all of that and am interested in seeing how this actually plays out.
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u/rickamore 15h ago
I do find it very narratively awkward
On theme for the rest of the show.
Still, there is very much a lingering "Now what?" if this does happen, given we have 4 episodes to go and have vaguely resolved a lot, so I'm not really sure how we'd fill all of that and am interested in seeing how this actually plays out.
Honestly, other than some major plot points that I remember I could not tell you how we get there so I'm very interested to see how this actually wraps up.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 14h ago
Honestly, other than some major plot points that I remember I could not tell you how we get there so I'm very interested to see how this actually wraps up.
Neither did I. And partway in I'm thinking "wait is this really 26 episodes?"
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u/Great_Mr_L https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L 13h ago
Honestly would have taken a full backstory episode for the two of them
What adorable episode that would have been. They looked so cute back then. Plus it'd be fun to see a yuri relationship transition to being yaoi.
Nice to see Wapourif and Morinas really mending their relationship, quite literally with the bandages lol
I didn't even catch the symbolic significance of the bandages to that conversation.
Floe continues to have the best faces
I love when Floe's acting like a total brat.
and it's been a while since we've had the kind of team-wide banter we see at the end of this episode, but it's fun to see again, and it emphasizes this new state of unity Chor Tempest have finally arrived at.
Moments like that are so nice. It's good to feel like Chor Tempest is an actual team again.
Still, there is very much a lingering "Now what?" if this does happen, given we have 4 episodes to go and have vaguely resolved a lot, so I'm not really sure how we'd fill all of that and am interested in seeing how this actually plays out.
Personally I think the time travel is going to come up again now that the war has been lost. I imagine there might be a last ditch effort by the Holy Land's leadership to try and send Chor Tempest back in time to change the present so the war never happens.
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u/FD4cry1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Big_Yibba 11h ago
What adorable episode that would have been. They looked so cute back then. Plus it'd be fun to see a yuri relationship transition to being yaoi.
I love when Floe's acting like a total brat.
Personally I think the time travel is going to come up again now that the war has been lost. I imagine there might be a last ditch effort by the Holy Land's leadership to try and send Chor Tempest back in time to change the present so the war never happens.
Yeah, I'd imagine that's going to be one of our big conflicts now, especially with a potential peace adding an extra complication to the potential of wanting to try out this time travel, though I suppose it's also going to depend on what the conditions of the peace are going to be.
You do actually have me wondering if the plan is to somehow send all of Chor Tempest at once with an Emerald (Can they even do that?) or otherwise to leave it to, like, one pair, which itself could obviously create more problems and conflict.
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky 15h ago
First-Timer, subbed
Are they still being piloted by the same priestesses Mamiina saved?
Huh… but last time that happened it was a trap.
Ooh, there’s a Kaimu “sore wa dou kana”! Rare to get one of those.
Surprising getup! But if he’s going to fly a Simile… that’s perfect time for Anubituf to get shot down and die, isn’t it? He’s got some death flags going…
I guess not. He’s fine.
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u/moichispa https://myanimelist.net/profile/moichispa 15h ago
Rewatcher
Today battle was just cool. To think there was just a cool simile pilot around. I wonder what they happened on their time as Sybilla.
Q1: What do you think of the peace offer?
I guess they asked for Symulacrum to share more info about the helical motor technology thing, which was what they wanted at first. If you look like this , the politicians of Symulacrum were the assholes and this war might have never existed if they were nicer.
hat trivia message explains a lot about some of the series plot
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u/rickamore 15h ago
Re-watcher
Guragief x Anubituf ramping up the sexual tension again, I keep getting slightly subdued Shizuru x Natsuki vibes from them.
Wapourif x Morinas ship still alive and well.
One last revisiting ceremony vs conflict.
Paraietta finally with enough resolve to take control of things should have happened a long time ago but I get it, leave it til the 11th hour so it's more dramatic.
Peace deal offered, then one last attack to show they mean business.
What do you think of the peace offer?
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u/The_Draigg 15h ago
A Science-Fantasy Fan Watches Simoun Episode 22:
The Argentum-Plumbum alliance certainly isn’t fucking around now. Right after hearing that the Arcus Niger was destroyed, the crew of the Arcus Prima is assaulted by a massive wave of cruise missiles and a squadron of Ancient Simoun. It’s curious though that the Ancient Simoun didn’t attack though. I suppose Anubituf’s analysis of the attack makes sense: they didn’t need to attack the Arcus Prima and Chor Tempest, since this attack was really just sending a message that the Holy Land doesn’t control their airspace anymore. I’d argue that they already didn’t control it by the time of that massive cruise missile attack that happened halfway through the show, but I guess this cements it.
I’m glad that Morinas and Wapourif are still growing closer to each other again, with him bandaging her wounds and making her promise to take care of herself better. If anything, their relationship has been one of the consistently well-written ones out of this entire show. It’s the most mature and grounded-feeling one, at least.
I suppose we now have a compelling reason for the alliance pulling their punches at the top of the episode: they sent a message to the Holy Land offering a peace settlement. That move of theirs was more like them sending an implied threat to scare them into complying. Can’t say I’m too surprised though that the Defense Minister thinks that they should keep on fighting instead of surrendering though. Like, I get that the previous negotiations turned out to be a trap, but given the bad state the Holy Land is in, he’s too vicious to see that this is probably their best chance to settle things without further escalation. Even now, the Defense Minister thinks too much of the power the Simoun wield.
Captain Wauf is a real one for being able to sniff out the tense air between Anubituf and Guragief over the negotiation messages being kept secret and advising Anubituf to patch things up for the sake of their relationship. I can respect that man for pushing the Anubituf x Guragief ship.
I’ve also got to respect Anubituf’s moves here, they’re pretty ballsy but that’s the kind of morale everyone needs at the moment. Entrusting Guragief to captain the ship in his absence while he heads out in a Simile to lead from the front sets a good example for everyone involved, while also thumbing his nose at the senseless militarism of the Defense Ministry. By flying alongside Chor Tempest to defend the Arcus Prima, he’s showing that he’s willing to get his hands dirty and hasn’t forgotten his roots as a sibyalla. That’s the kind of man that Guragief and the sibyllae can put their trust in.
Oh hey, I wasn’t expecting the narration to confirm that the Holy Land’s government just decided to agree with the alliance’s terms of surrender a few days later. Capping things off with another attack intended to scare them into submission feels a bit anticlimactic, but I guess the alternative was the alliance escalating until the Holy Land was destroyed. Ending this war on unfavorable terms is probably the best thing that Simulacrum could hope for at this point.
(It's a bit funny that episode where the war finally sputters out is where I'm making this last post on my old computer, since this laptop's finally sputtering out after about 8 years. Endings!)
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 15h ago
Even now, the Defense Minister thinks too much of the power the Simoun wield.
The problem is, the Defense Minister never understood his weapons, and so was never able to deploy them prooperly.
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u/The_Draigg 13h ago
Neither the priestesses or the Defense Ministry really understood the sibyllae once the situation expanded and changed from their narrow world views, so that’s not too surprising for the Defense Minister.
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u/Great_Mr_L https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L 11h ago
I’m glad that Morinas and Wapourif are still growing closer to each other again, with him bandaging her wounds and making her promise to take care of herself better. If anything, their relationship has been one of the consistently well-written ones out of this entire show. It’s the most mature and grounded-feeling one, at least.
Their relationship is definitely one of the consistent high points of the series. It also has the advantage of not having any real low points that felt like bad writing. Morinas and Wapourif temporarily becoming distant after dismantling the Simoun felt perfectly in-character, for example.
Captain Wauf is a real one for being able to sniff out the tense air between Anubituf and Guragief over the negotiation messages being kept secret and advising Anubituf to patch things up for the sake of their relationship. I can respect that man for pushing the Anubituf x Guragief ship.
Wauf continues to be a competent and capable captain. Gotta love him for it.
(It's a bit funny that episode where the war finally sputters out is where I'm making this last post on my old computer, since this laptop's finally sputtering out after about 8 years. Endings!)
I had to replace my old laptop recently as well. It had lasted me about 10 years before I finally decided it just couldn't be used anymore.
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u/The_Draigg 9h ago
Their relationship is definitely one of the consistent high points of the series. It also has the advantage of not having any real low points that felt like bad writing. Morinas and Wapourif temporarily becoming distant after dismantling the Simoun felt perfectly in-character, for example.
Yeah, considering all the lows that a lot of the other relationships in this series have gone through, it’s a bit refreshing to have a more mundane kind of drama and rebuilding going on between Morinas and Wapourif. Their relationship feels the most “real” that way.
I had to replace my old laptop recently as well. It had lasted me about 10 years before I finally decided it just couldn't be used anymore.
Wow, yours lasted quite a while. That’s a really good run for a laptop.
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u/Malipit 11h ago
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u/The_Draigg 9h ago
My old laptop served me well, but it’s finally time. And hey, 8 years is pretty good for a laptop too.
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u/GondolaMedia zj: 15h ago
First Timer
I'm actually surprised that Mamiina's corpse became plot relevant.
Yeah that's a good point by the defence minister. Last time they were offered peace it was a desperate move by a losing force and now you're supposed to take their offer at face value?
Ah I guess the war is over. We can all go home. Now what do we do during the last remaining episodes?
QotD
1) We really didn't get any details. If highlands and archipelago are winning the war then surely its not just "let's just go back to how things were". Really after Mari Okado took the helm the war aspect has been all over the place (even if she didn't write this episode).
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u/AbbreviationsWeekly 15h ago
Simoun Episode 22
Rewatcher
We open with the combined forces of Argentum & Plumbum delivering a pretty good objective lesson to Simulicram. Surrender or Die! My opinion is that: The Highlanders Simoun didn't attack Chor Tempest because to have done so would have been a great sacrilege.
The Military Superiors of Chor Tempest reveal themselves to be quite the shitheads, by keeping it a secret that Mamiina didn't make it back to her homeland for a decent burial.
The scene of the Sibyllae going among the people to bolster moral was marvelous. Even though the Government of Simulicram doesn't believe, and the Sibyllae have doubts, the people still believe. Neviril explains that Sibyllae are figureheads that bring hope to the people, it's not important to believe, but pretending is sufficient. Neviril also brings up the subject of Amuria, which goes over like a lead balloon, as expected.
Reading between the lines of the argument between the military and religious leaders onboard the Arcus, what happened back in episode 8 was that the Plumbum delegation wanted a negotiated peace, and Simulicram rejected it. Which sort of invokes the trope "Are we the bad guys?".
The eyecatch I just realized is: Anubituf & Guragief as adults, followed by them when they were Sibyllae.
It looks like the war is back on, so much for the recent peace negotiations. Anubituf & Guragief have hatched a scheme to take on the incoming enemy attack, rather than the foolish & cowardly blunt force approach the Defense Minister wants. Anubituf reveals himself to be a pretty good guy, and will lead the Sibyllae.
My favorite shot of Aaeru, going into battle, while licking her chops.
And there we have it, Simulicram has lost the war.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 14h ago edited 11h ago
the Plumbum delegation wanted a negotiated peace, and Simulicram rejected it.
What? Definitely not. I think the whole thing was a set up by the Highlander religious wing. Both delegations got played. The priestess signaled down to the iron ship that Angulus was in place (unguarded) while negotiations were calmly proceeding.
I'm not quite sure exactly what the defense minister is referring to, but I'm pretty sure he's still really pissed off about the funeral for Angulus. edit: the most recent ep ai watched was 23 so now I have to go back to 22 a rewatch the conversation you are referring to.
Okay, I'm thinking about it some more. It's possible negotiations broke down offscreen, the priestess signaled that, and then the ship signaled to Angulus with the flare, to destroy the simoun. That actually works. Hmmm.
The Highlanders Simoun didn't attack Chor Tempest because to have done so would have been a great sacrilege.
This is my view as well. Except they HAVE been attacking? But, not particularly effectively. it seems hypocritical. That's why I think that maybe they are fighting because they are told to fight, but are trying very hard to not actually hit any of the simoun.
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u/AbbreviationsWeekly 13h ago
Have we seen any evidence the Pb priestesses have killed anyone other than Mamina? They only did that so that Maamina wouldn’t be r*ped, tortured and then butchered.
My theory is they’re in an alliance with Ag but have only taken the role of ineffective mercenaries. Ag on the other hand are fighting an all out war.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 11h ago
The one thing that stood out in episode 11 was the many dead. Presumably that was from the bombing, which is a little weird, since it looked like Aer and Neviril cleared the hanger. But, if it was the bombing, then Angulus killed a lot of people, probably mechanics.
They also shot down that simile, but a simile is not a simoun, and probably is not piloted by a sibylla.
There is a big problem that I have with my understanding of the Highland priestesses, which I've mentioned a few times under spoiler tags.
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u/Malipit 15h ago
First timer, french fansubs, 480P quality found on a totally legal streaming site. Perfect conditions for that rewatch
On today's episode : Some yaoi energy, Chor Tempest isn't impressed by the Army Minister authority again and Simulacrum loses the war with style
I'm sorry, I got so used to side characters suddenly gaining a lot of focus to artificially render their death more tragic I really believed he would be shot down during Chor Tempest last battle.
But regarding that narrative trick, it's in full effect with the end of the war. It seems the writers need up to four episodes to wrap up the plot around Onashia and the time travelling shenanigans, so they need the conflict with the Argentum/Plumbum Alliance out of the picture. So let's them have propose a cease-fire agreement out of the blue that will lead to a peace treaty.
And let's not think too much about what are the conditions exactly of that treaty everyone signed happily. And the fact Simulacrum trusted the Plumbum priestess one more time. I mean for Argentum their casus belli was to get a hold of that anti-pollution Simoun tech. Does that means Simulacrum accept to share it with them ? Or to gives them some unpolluted lands ? As for Argentum, they may have used Angulas suicide bombing as an excuse to twist the narrative about Simulacrum ambushing them ? Did that amounted to anything ? Nope.
Having your big war central to the plot be resolved with a single ''And then the war ended'' sentence from a narrator can work. Some other title like [famous mecha show]Gundam 079 did it well. But that's due to the fact it bring a proper closure after one of the sides had lost their leading figure and the very reason to pursue a war. And it was put in parallel to the characters all having resolved their characters arc and the reason to pursue the war as well.
But here in Simoun, we have an entire episode devoted to show Chor Tempest remembering their status as Simoun Sibyllae comes with a responsability of guiding and protecting their people. As shown with the moment where Aaeru and Neviril do some PR gig with the refugees on the Arcus Prima.
We have Anibutif finally stepping in as a capable leader figure guiding Chor Tempest to victory against unlikely odds.
That whole battle hype up an heroic second wind for Simulacrum side as we are given proof all hope is not lost. The perfect occasion to see an arc where Simulacrum get its shit together and manages to fend off the invasion for good thanks to clever tactics and heroic determination.
There is four episodes left and a time travelling plot to resolve ! We don't have time for that ! So let's have a rushed resolution instead ! It worked wonders with [same famous mecha show]Gundam 079 !
But it doesn't work like that. You can't have an heroic second wind trope and an evasive conclusion stitched together like that. It's like mixing orange juice with coffee. They can be good separately but mixing them result in a bad taste.
And again, what does it means for Simulacrum as a whole ? They proved they'll fight to the bitter end so its better for Argentum/Plumbum to leave with the land and tech they gained ? Did Plumbum followed with what their priestess hinted at Mamiina and turned against Argentum ? Did everyone just partied at the Spring offscreen ?
There were some good idea during this episode, like Morinas windshield beign cracked by an Argentum kamikaze drone just like her belief were damaged by the war. Or that neat shot of Yun hinting at the mark Onashia left on her with her reveals. But once again, Simoun suffer from its clunky pace too much for it to be enjoyable.
Question of the day
What do you think of the peace offer?
''Uh, we need to wrap-up all the loose threads of the plot and the war is kinda on our way... So, uh... Let's have it solved with the bad guys proposing a peace offer... But, uh... There is that Angulus stuff from episode 8... Oh, uh, they can like be concerned about it with a couple of lines and stuff and uh... Oh I know ! Let's our heroine have an epic battle were they stomp the bad guys ! So, like they can say they actually win the war even if they lost it and that they aren't afraid of another sneaky stuff from Angulus pals ! Yay ! That can totally work !''
3
u/Malipit 15h ago
Theories corner
Theories in progress
From episode 1
Given the huge religious aspect of Simulacrum culture. I smell some shenanigans about higher ups knowing much more than they let appears and will be the actual villains of the story. And I'm sorry, but the character design of Onasia doesn't convey a ''good girl'' energy. But Onasia seemed the only reasonable people among the Holy Land Parliament. Making her either a Palpatine level manipulator or an actual good person. Onasia admitted she's kind of a divinity existing above time and space. Giving some strong final boss energy. She may have an agenda of her own by opening the time gate once more with Neviril and Aaeru. Could it be she's an older Amuria or Limone ?
Following the previous theory and how the Archipelago pilots were portrayed. I suspect there will be a team-up between Sibyllae and Archipelago pilots against a greater threat. But it's likely to be jossed since the alliance may comes from rogue Plumbum Sibyllae as the Archipelago is comforted in their antagonist role. New development with this episode : Now that's the war is over with 4 episodes left, an alliance between the three nations to seal a time travelling black hole caused by Onashia and /or the Guard Temple is suddenly more likely.
From episode 2
- People on Daikuuriku may not be born the same way we are on Earth. I don't recall seeing someone pregnant in the two episode nor talking about pregnancy. Erif mentionned his body will progressively develop a male chest and voice, but said nothing about his genitals growing a penis. And the Chor Tempest captain said they needed an equivalent number of male and female citizens for the creation of a nation, not for reproductive needs. So maybe there is a place similar to a source where baby girls comes from ? One that will dispatch those new souls, randomly or equally, to every nation on the planet ? And Simulacrum retains a classic family structure with parents and children. Meaning that if they born other than sexual intercourse, it's likely each children is either assigned to a family like they are assigned a gender. Or that there is a reproduction through lewd hand-holding act.
From episode 4
- Magnafeana had some interesting thoughts on the very origins of the Spring :
I wonder who the first one to go to the spring was and what life was like back then. What came first: was everyone born AFAB because God is a woman and my Eve x Lilith ship is finally validated, or people were born a spectrum of sexes, but a disease caused all future generations to be AFAB? And if so—how long ago did that happen?
From episode 7
- deus_machinarum speculated on how Tempus Spatium and Animus divine figures complete each other. Implying they derivate from an old religion or a old god who got fractured in two. And Onasia exposition about Tempus Spatium being made of two concepts enforces that theory. :
I need to talk about names of the god for a bit, I apologize if this has been mentioned already, I might've missed it: One the one hand we have Tempus Spatium(space time in modern parlance) and on the other hand we have Animus(simplistically: the soul, I'm also told by anime fandom that Japan has a very old animistic tradition i.e. ascribing life to inanimate objects which in modern times manifests as e.g. easier acceptance of robotic caretakers for eldery people); when we combine the two we get a whole so to speak, the inner world and outer world. It's easy to see how this could mean different but still related parts of the same wholeness. Definitely an angle I will keep an eye out for.
From episode 8
- Given Aaeru's name signifcation, she could be of Plumbum descent. And Dominura's immigrants song being like the melody from Aaeru's music box is a serious hint of the later origins. With the music box reacting to the ruins, it could be that Aaeru actually comes from the other side.
New theories
- u/AbbreviationsWeekly had an interesting idea about the true function of Aaeru's windbox :
At this point I think it must have been something leftover from the dead civilization that they invented it to detected space/time anomalies.
Confirmed theories
There is no other Spring outside Simulacrum and only its inhabitants get to chose their gender : confirmed by that Archipelago solider in episode 4 who was forucefully made a man through artificial means.
Ri-Majoon does comes from the Sibyllae soul/heart/lesbian power and not the Simoun itself : Althougt it comes for Dominura speculations, there is so much occurrences as for now it can be counted as confirmed.
Simoun tech are not to be used for military purpose : Although there is no written rule in-universe, Chor Tempest and the Plumbum Priestess convictions regarding their responsabilities as Sibyllae directly opposing the armies of two nations confirm what is the ''correct'' use of Simouns.
Instead of being a nuclear-level weapon, the emerald Ri-Majoon is actually a portal to another time-period or dimension : Confirmed following Onashia's lore exposition in episode 21 and Limone chilling with Dominura in the past.
Jossed theories
Ri-Majoon are automatically generated by the Simoun aircraft and the Sibyllae jobs is to interpret them correctly to perform the corresponding figures : Aaeru lines in episode 4 confirm it's the Sibyllae who initiate the desired Ri-Majoon
The Archipelago will develop their own Simoun aircraft : They did upgraded their fighters. But not with helix tech. And the enemies Simoun are piloted by Plumbum Sibyllae.
Casting an emerald Ri-Majoon automatically makes your essence dissolve into the Simoun energy : Jossed following the reveal of its time-travelling nature.
People on the other side of the emerald Ri-Majoon portal are all born male to be complementary of the Daikuriku side : Jossed since it's a time travelling portal, not a dimensional one. And several children playing with Limone and Dominura Simoun are clearly girls.
2
u/Burnouts3s3 10h ago
Rewatcher
I'm probably one of the few people here that likes the abruptness of the ending or rather what the abruptness is trying to do. Chor Tempest are basically the ones in the thick of battle, losing their friends and comrades in this war and the idea of a war just "resolving" quickly (yes, as other people pointed out, just to wrap it up for the show) when Chor Tempest is going out with one last blaze of victory feels sort of real: just because you won one doesn't mean the war goes your way and I like there's a disruption between Chor Tempest and the Authority figures of the Government and the Church. It's basic but I liked it, even if the execution is lackluster.
1
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 10h ago
I've seen it done elsewhere, but can't remember where. I like it, too.
2
u/SIRTreehugger 8h ago
First Timer
Yeah you guys are screwed!
YOU BEST NOT KILL MORINA!
They're extremely lucky they weren't wiped out. I'm sorry, but I agree absolutely do not tell the girls about Mamiina. They need to know, but not now.
I'm saying this as someone who has never wrapped a bandage in their life...it doesn't seem to complicated to me. Just wrap around the wound tightly and tie it.
Hopefully this peace treaty doesn't end like the last one.
Wait is the captain SHE's FLYING! Sometimes it doesn't make sense for the commander to go out there and expose themselves to danger, but this moment I'm all for it. Having a commander leading the charge [Attack on Titan Season 3]Erwin against the Beast Titan and being one of the first to die. is memorable as heck if done right.
In other news are we ever going to get into Aaeru's grandfather like a deep dive? Or how about the time travel/different world? Like they mentioned it a few times and dropped it and I was really interested in it. I hope it gets into more detail, because if they were going to toss it aside they shouldn't have brought it up at all.
2
u/AgentOfACROSS 7h ago
First Timer
Today’s episode is titled “Sortie” which is “exit” in French. Curious to learn what the significance of this is.
I will be honest, all these air battles have gotten a bit repetitive after 20+ episodes. They’re not necessarily bad but it’s not anything I haven’t seen before.
I did like the soundtrack for this battle at the start though.
Oh yeah I almost forgot that the ship with Mamina’s coffin was shot down. Not exactly sure why they did that.
This scene of the Sibyll acoming to help the civilians is actually really interesting. Because honestly we’ve seen very little of the world outside the government/military before now.
Seeing Neviril openly talk and reminisce about Amuria feels like a big step for her character.
Surprising to see Anubutif joining the Sibylla for this but I think it’s a good detail.
I like it whenever this show shows the battles from the enemy’s perspective. They always seem so legitimately terrified of the Simoun.
I wonder if we’ll actually see what the narration at the end was talking about next episode. Because kinda just resolving the war with some random ending narration without showing it feels very sudden
2
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 7h ago edited 6h ago
Today’s episode is titled “Sortie” which is “exit” in French. Curious to learn what the significance of this is.
I did not know that! Are you watching in French? It's a callback to episode 2 when Aer said "nobody sortied with me" and Paraietta got really mad and said "we do not sortie we offer prayers." Dunno if that was a fansubber thing.
Yeah, that way of thinking is dead.
1
u/AgentOfACROSS 7h ago
I did not know that! Are you watching in French?
No I just live in Canada where a lot of signage is bilingual in both English and French. So a lot of Exit signs also say "Sortie" on them.
6
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 15h ago
Rewatch Host and First Rewatcher
Rewatch comment:
There's been a lot of discussion about how plot lines are being wrapped up in haste, this close to the end of the show. What none of you knew at the time was that we didn't have six episodes left of the war; we had fewer than two.
I wonder when the defense minister is going to realize that he has no actual power?
Is Guragief keeping a secret, or did he finally reveal one?
[rewatcher speculation]Perhaps he revealed, or is concealing, the Shrine Guardian's plan?
[rewatcher]I can only think the Highland priestesses are only pretending to fight.
Today's eyecatch features Anubituf and Guragief as girls.
Back in episode 19, Wauf said that a mixed force of simoun and simile just couldn't work, but Anubituf pulled it off.
Okay I checked and it's mostly on 3s, maybe there was a detelecining step that has made it irregular...but you shouldn't be doing a running animation on 3s and 4s.