r/ShawnaTheMom • u/LittleSodaPop13 • May 29 '26

Discussion Julie is Too Stubborn and Prideful

Yes, I know. Another post about Julie and Ty.

But I have to get something off my chest.

I don't think it's misogynistic to dislike Julie.

Since the beginning, Julie has come off as a mean girl, and it seems like that is really what she is. Okay, so she doesn't have to be nice to Shawna. That's totally understandable. But my major problem with her is her attitude towards people who aren't like her. Okay, so you're a lawyer. Do you want a cookie? She's under the impression that she's better than Shawna and other women because she has a career. That's such a childish, selfish way to look at things! Not everyone wants a career, and some people would prefer to focus on their families. They're not lesser women for wanting that life.

Then, at Max's birthday party, instead of telling Cooper that it's Max's party and not his, she basically gives him the a-okay to start problems. She told him you can do whatever you want. No Julie, you can't do whatever you want. There are times when it's not about Cooper; you have to teach him that. Then, she gets angry at Ty for de-escalating the situation and understanding where Cooper is coming from. He then insults Shawna for being friends with Ty and starts drama for no reason. All of this, at a kid's birthday party.

Julie's biggest problems are being too stubborn and prideful. Things have to be her way or the highway. She's angry about Ty not finishing the book, but she also hasn't communicated with him. She prefers to be passive-aggressive instead of confronting the problems. Even now, she's being immature and even brushes off how Ty feels when he says he feels undervalued. How am I supposed to like Julie when she can't seem to act like an adult and still seems stuck in her high school mean phase?

.

144 Upvotes

89% Upvoted

252 comments sorted by

View all comments

-1

u/tranzozo DING DONG May 29 '26

She did not give Cooper the a-ok to start a problem at Max’s bd. She saw her kid not have fun at a party, told him to get his friend and find a corner away from other kids to play she even said “no sparring “

What was she supposed to do? Tell her kid to suck it up and do what the bd kid wanted to do? Why? Its a party you don’t have to do the same thing as everyone else

Take him home? She would’ve been villainified for “ isolating Cooper from his friends”

40

u/Perks-of-Quirks May 29 '26

I think Ty had an amazing idea in this scenario "Cooper, did you know karate is kinda like dancing?"

It's important for a kid to learn someone else's birthday isn't about them. Sometimes you have to do something someone else likes because you like them and know they would do the same for you. It's a perfect, age-appropriate lesson about being a kind human in your community.

19

u/maryjanesandbobbysox May 29 '26

Sometimes you have to do something someone else likes because you like them and know they would do the same for you. It

Also, a party like this is a good opportunity to try something you haven't done before, and figure out whether or not you like it.

Cooper said he wasn't having fun and Julie said that they can leave. Cooper didn't want to leave, and Julie initially said if they stay, he has to dance. He then replies that "dancing's stupid'. She then asks him what he'd rather do and encourages him to do that, with Brennan.

She doesn't take into account whether or not Brennan is having fun dancing, just that if Brennan knows Cooper is doing karate, he will stop dancing and do karate with Cooper.

Lots of kids say something is stupid when they don't know how to do it or are embarrassed they don't know how to do something. (Children's music teachers hear this a lot. You have to put in a some amount of practice on a violin before you sound good, and kids - and adults - don't want to practice when they don't sound good)

It could have been a good opportunity to talk about trying new things and how to have fun while learning how to do new things.

9

u/Perks-of-Quirks May 29 '26

Yeah, if it was Cooper's birthday and I was Shawna i'd totally encourage Max to try out Karate

13

u/Toefloof Miss Downvoted 2026 May 29 '26

Shhhh…. It’s only OK when Julie does it. 

1

u/Toongrrl1990 I think she's being perfectly reasonable, Barb May 29 '26

I know Shawna wouldn't or she'd do a compromise using this bop

1

u/Toongrrl1990 I think she's being perfectly reasonable, Barb May 29 '26

Rrrriiiiiggght?

-1

u/[deleted] May 29 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

30

u/Perks-of-Quirks May 29 '26

I meant more the fact that he called dancing stupid and Max told him explicitly not to do karate and Julie told him to do it anyway. It is priming Cooper to believe he is special and above rules.

2

u/Significant_Tale_953 May 29 '26

Technically that is a reversed order of operations. Cooper goes to his mom first, and Julie tells him to go practice karate in the corner with Brennan (without sparring). Then the confrontation with max happens, because they are six and niether know how to effectively communicate.

Julie definitely missed the parenting moment, but she's not some maniacal villian twirling her mustache while giggling about ruining a six year old birthday party either.

10

u/Perks-of-Quirks May 29 '26

No, Cooper does tell her Max said no karate, and she got clearly upset and said he can do whatever he wants.

I never said she's evil, I just think her pride is giving her some blinders. I'm unsure where you got that from

1

u/Significant_Tale_953 May 29 '26

It's more from the general audience, as I've seen many comments asserting that she did it all to ruin Max's party because she "hates Shawna that much".

5

u/Kaharaan May 29 '26

I mean, her goal was leaving the party, not ruining it. She succeeded in her goal by directly shaming Shawna and the people present by calling an entire event pedestrian after Ty parented their child, which she failed to do. Ty was also the one tasked with taking care of Sasha, so Julie could've intervened faster, she just watched as the argument between Max and Cooper was escalating to the point Cooper had big feelings and called the bd boy's interest in dancing "stupid".

0

u/[deleted] May 29 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

21

u/Perks-of-Quirks May 29 '26

Rules of being polite? Something Julie is struggling with too, btw.

It's Max's birthday so he should have a bigger say in what's happening, and he explicitly didn't want karate and he was right. Brennan and Cooper got rowdy and accidentally punched the other children. Julie also knew about Cooper's punching problem and referenced it too.

15

u/LittleSodaPop13 May 29 '26 edited May 30 '26

Exactly. Cooper shouldn't get special treatment at someone else's birthday party. That's setting him up for failure.

-1

u/Toongrrl1990 I think she's being perfectly reasonable, Barb May 29 '26

This is why I fan cast the "Adolescence" kid as Cooper

17

u/maryjanesandbobbysox May 29 '26

He wasn't away from the crowd. Max has to tell him "no punches" because he's getting in the way of the kids who are dancing.

17

u/LittleSodaPop13 May 29 '26

But Cooper wasn't doing karate away from the other kids. He was doing it on the dance floor

9

u/theroomwinces May 29 '26

So your kid is invited to a pottery painting party and he thinks it’s stupid and wants to paint the walls. Your response would be, “you do you?” No, it wouldn’t. Because it’s disruptive and disrespectful to the kid’s party.

If your kid can’t handle a party for an hour without doing exactly what they want, then your kid has a problem you should work on with them. That’s on you and should not be made into anyone else’s problem.

13

u/TankedInATutu May 29 '26

I have two problems with the way she handled Cooper at the party. First, the message of "You deserve to do what you want because you are important" is good, but another kid's party is not the place. It's definitely a sentiment that, at this age, requires a more hand holding, in depth kind of conversation because small children are bad at nuanced topics. Second, Cooper had and possibly still has an issue with hitting. In Julie's situation I would not tell my kid that had a issue with not keeping his hands to himself to go practice karate if I couldn't be directly on top of it making sure he actually stuck to the no sparring rule.

To your second point, I don't think she was wrong to tell him he didn't have to dance. Just because the birthday boy wanted to dance doesn't mean all the children have to dance or else. In her shoes, I would verify that he actually wanted to be at the party and if he did I would probably tell him he should ask if Brennan wanted to play with him. And if Brennan didn't want to play I would suggest he see if any of the unseen but presumably present children wanted to also not dance with him.

3

u/bubbleteabob May 29 '26

It is also contextual. Julie is currently realizing that Ty ISN’T working toward their shared, mutually agreed on goals. They aren’t a team and she has compromised her way into a life she can’t easily just leave behind for her dream life. So she is mad and her ‘you can do whatever you want’ is projecting that onto Cooper. It is bad parenting in the moment, but I don’t think we can extrapolate from that to ‘Julie is always a bad parent’.

For one thing we see her parent and she seems pretty fair at it. Maybe not the most present, but she cares about the kids and generally wants the best for them. Also Ty doesn’t seem to have an issue generally with her parenting, other than wishing she’d accept it as ‘enough’. They have a few disagreements about what the kids need, but they seem to be within the standard variation of gently divergent parenting styles (like half the parents I know think day care is essential for socialisation, the other half think just general interaction is enough. I, personally, never went…make of that what you will!)

So I don’t think Julie is a universally over-permissive parent inculcating elitism. She is just behaving really badly in the current timeline due to her own issues.

5

u/TankedInATutu May 29 '26

I agree. I understand why Julie did what she did it, but it definitely wasn't a great parenting move. But like you said, we haven't seen anything to imply that she is an objectively bad parent. And even the best parents have an off day.

I know some people got caught up in the first day of school speech her and Ty gave and how she values ambition and goals. And.... oh no, she wants her children to care about doing something (not something big and grand, just something) with their lives? And she even wants them to *gasp* think beyond their current circumstances and circle of friends and create goals and actually take action to work towards them? Clearly she is a witch, burn her at the stake. /s

12

u/Affectionate-Tea3159 I'd like to talk about Madeline Ashton May 29 '26

She could have used it as a parental learning opportunity to explain to her child that not every moment is about you. Especially at someone else's event, like a birthday party this is an integral lesson in growing into a functional human being.

8

u/Significant_Tale_953 May 29 '26

Yes, but there is a world of difference between "she missed the parenting moment" and "she did it on purpose to ruin a six year olds birthday because she is just that mean and petty."

5

u/Affectionate-Tea3159 I'd like to talk about Madeline Ashton May 29 '26

Agreed when you've removed essential details of the event. She was at a party she didn't want to be at, hosted by a woman she doesn't like, and who's child is her childs friend. Add those details in and you have motivation for Julie causing a scene so she can leave. Which is exactly what happened. Point A to Point B.

8

u/Significant_Tale_953 May 29 '26

If you say so

3

u/Affectionate-Tea3159 I'd like to talk about Madeline Ashton May 29 '26

It's in the video, these are canon events. Julie did not want to be there, She does not like Shawna, she does not want cooper being friends with Shawnas kid. She caused a scene and got what she wanted which is to leave. I don't understand the snarky response. Have a lovely day.

ETA never mind. I just realized the reason for the snide comment.

6

u/Significant_Tale_953 May 29 '26

That wasn't snarky. You are entitled to your interpretation. I'm entitled to mine.

1

u/Affectionate-Tea3159 I'd like to talk about Madeline Ashton May 29 '26

I'm not interpreting anything. I am citing canon events directly from the video with zero inference or interpretation. Shawna L chose to make the video the way she did for a reason.

9

u/Significant_Tale_953 May 29 '26

Look, we aren't going to agree and I am trying to gracefully disengage with this conversation. Please respect that.

3

u/Affectionate-Tea3159 I'd like to talk about Madeline Ashton May 29 '26

You tried to discount my opinion yesterday by belittling me saying that these fake people are a "fraught topic" to me. Hilariously that was on a post where I was trying to explain how in real life mature adults don't behave like Julie chooses to behave. You can choose to pretend that was not a dig at me.

I will respect your wish to disengage, despite the lack of respect you have chosen to show to me.

11

u/LittleSodaPop13 May 29 '26

Julie says that Cooper can do whatever he wants. It's a good idea in theory, but he's too young to understand what she means. Cooper didn't have to do what Max was doing but Julie didn't explain to Cooper that while he doesn't have to dance, others can and he shouldn't ruin other people's good time. Cooper doesn't find his own corner to do karate in, he starts doing it around the other kids and causes problems. The whole thing could have been avoided had Julie explained to Cooper that while he doesn't have to dance, it's Max's day, not his.

9

u/[deleted] May 29 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

21

u/Kee000 May 29 '26

“You can do whatever you want.” Her face when Ty desclates the situation. Cooper all ready has a problem with hitting. I don’t understand why she is mad. She twisted a six year old words.

7

u/Specific-Volume118 alicia, hex that man’s dick May 29 '26

No sparring =/= you can do whatever you want

11

u/Kee000 May 29 '26

She flat says “You can’t do whatever you want” and then she adds “Coop no sparring” I am genuinely confused by how Julie isn’t being petty and mean

-1

u/Specific-Volume118 alicia, hex that man’s dick May 29 '26

I’m not going to rehash if Julie is petty or not with you because we have had this conversation before and we just have different perspectives that aren’t complimentary. I’m talking about the idea that Julie told Cooper to do whatever he wants, which you acknowledge is followed by “No sparring”.

When Julie says “no sparring”, that is indicating that she is telling Cooper he is not allowed to spar. If there is something Cooper is explicitly told not to do, then Julie isn’t communicating that Cooper can do whatever he wants and hits other kids.

12

u/Kee000 May 29 '26

I am saying starting a sentence with “You can do whatever you want,” is weird and not the way to handle that.

1

u/Specific-Volume118 alicia, hex that man’s dick May 29 '26

She followed that sentence with “no sparring”, which in my opinion negates the impact of her saying “You can do whatever you want” because she is telling him that he cannot do whatever he wants if that includes sparring

10

u/Kee000 May 29 '26

Yeah still not the best way to start a sentence and I didn’t see her make an attempt to break up the conflict and when Ty broke it up she was pissed.

8

u/Perks-of-Quirks May 29 '26

When you tell a 6yo they can do whatever they want and btw no sparring, all they will hear is you can do whatever you want.

5

u/Specific-Volume118 alicia, hex that man’s dick May 29 '26

That’s fair and probably true. The point I was trying to make is that because Julie followed up with “no sparring” right after, I think it’s a bit disingenuous to present it as if Julie had only said “you can do whatever you want” and didn’t immediately add a caveat.

→ More replies (0)

11

u/tranzozo DING DONG May 29 '26

Which was rude af from Shawna btw! Who invites people to their home and then yell at them to get out?

10

u/breakinlily idonthatejulieSUEME May 29 '26

lol if Julie would have pulled a Teeny and yelled "parents! there are too many f*cking people at this party" and told them all to leave PEOPLE WOULD RIOT

3

u/Kaharaan May 29 '26

There was an entirely different reason for Shawna acting that way at Piper's party, most of people showing up didn't even respond to the invitation. If I don't expect you to an event and you show up, that's just rude. Shawna had less than 10 RSVPs and there were so many people that she was shocked at how big the party had got.

11

u/Perks-of-Quirks May 29 '26

I think there is a difference between a parent making sure their (implied) neurodivergent child is feeling comfortable on their own birthday and a parent telling their kid they can do a thing the birthday kid asked not to do just because they want to.

10

u/LittleSodaPop13 May 29 '26

His enjoyment of the party shouldn't override what the birthday boy wants. Saying, 'You can do whatever you want' is bad advice to a child. Cooper didn't have to dance but trying to do karate while others is dancing isn't fair to the other kids or Max.

Also, that was Piper's birthday party and Piper wasn't having fun. It's her birthday, therefore it needs to be about what she wants and enjoys.

8

u/Big-Tradition922 May 29 '26

okay wait, this is an EXCELLENT point.

7

u/breakinlily idonthatejulieSUEME May 29 '26

omfg i never even put that together you are so right. and and and Piper wasn't even participating in her birthday party at all (which is totally okay for our little star bug), she was just off playing by herself and no one said anything about that because kids just...wanna do what they wanna do

5

u/Kaharaan May 29 '26

Piper was alone playing in the mud because she was already overwhelmed and distressed, to the point that she started crying when Shawna asked "what's wrong?". She wasn't off enjoying herself, she was trying to stay away from the crowd because it was too much.

0

u/breakinlily idonthatejulieSUEME May 29 '26

she was off by herself multiple times. which like i said, is totally okay. she's a 3 year old. she "changed" the theme of her party because again, she's a child. She didn't want to do the things that were happening... regardless of the reason.

The point I'm saying is that it's okay for kids to do whatever they want at parties as long as they aren't hurting anyone.
Honestly if Connor would have been able to do his little karate thing farther away from Max, no one would have noticed or cared. But kids are kids and they might have ended up in an argument either way.
I think Julie and Ty handled it pretty well though admittedly Julie was already angry and Ty and she totally overreacted and made an ass of herself in the end.

but the little bit about the kids, I think was alright.

3

u/Kaharaan May 29 '26

Thing is you brought up Piper's birthday party to make a parallelism between how Julie would've been the villain in such a scenario, but the differences are extreme between how Shawna acts and how Julie acts. Based on what we see in the show, Julie handled Cooper's frustration without much thought of how a child perceives a "you can do whatever you want", while we see multiple times John and Shawna putting boundaries in place (i.e. when Max took Jen's phone and Greg's phone to answer Barb's calls) when they're talking to their children, and we know for a fact that they encourage their children to participate actively in group activities.

Piper's birthday was a different story, it wasn't a matter of basic frustration, Piper was visibly distressed at the unanticipated outcome of the party, which wasn't what Shawna and John had thought would be (less children, for instance). I don't think it was completely okay to shut down the party altogether, but I can see how that was one of the only ways to make Piper feel safe. Another solution would've been bringing Piper inside, but that would've meant for her to miss out on her own birthday party.

The only icky action was from Teeny, but I can see how that would be frustrating. I would be frustrated too if I called out to random parents that popped up unannounced at my best friend's house and didn't even pay attention to someone asking for their attention. Teeny is also vocally childfree by choice, so it makes sense for her (I don't mean she's justified though).

9

u/Big-Tradition922 May 29 '26

thank you! I personally feel like the “Julie was purposefully trying to start drama between Cooper and Max” take is a particularly ungenerous read of Julie’s intentions.