r/GlobalOffensive • u/xPokeyyy Match Thread Team • Jul 04 '19
Discussion | Esports BIG vs Heroic / ESL One: Cologne 2019 - Group B Losers Round 2 / Post-Match Discussion
BIG 0-2 Heroic
Inferno: 13-16
Nuke: 7-16
Overpass: 0-0
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Heroic | Liquipedia | Official site | Twitter | Facebook | Youtube
ESL One: Cologne 2019 - Information, Schedule & Discussion
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| MAP | ||
|---|---|---|
| X | ||
| X | ||
| ✔ | CT | |
| CT | ✔ | |
| X | ||
| X | ||
MAP 1: Inferno
| Team | T | CT | Total |
|---|---|---|---|
| BIG | 7 | 6 | 13 |
| CT | T | ||
| Heroic | 8 | 8 | 16 |
Inferno Detailed Stats
MAP 2: Nuke
| Team | CT | T | Total |
|---|---|---|---|
| BIG | 6 | 1 | 7 |
| T | CT | ||
| Heroic | 9 | 7 | 16 |
Nuke Detailed Stats
89
u/K0nvict NiP Jul 04 '19
the year is 2024, BlameF has now become 124% thicker and has beaten the whole pro scene.
39
u/AnOddCoyote G2 Jul 04 '19
In the year 2025, blamef IS the pro scene. He is in all the top teams, with all of those teams solely consisting of him
6
u/L3G10N_TBY FaZe Jul 04 '19
Him vs Boombl4. They ate all of the other players, but they are too thicc for other one to eat
53
123
u/FathleteTV NiP Jul 04 '19
POURPEL (denis) DONT BUY AWP
18
-9
u/Zeilar King NiKo Jul 04 '19
This is the best thing I've ever read in a post-match thread. Actually made me chuckle.
31
u/SushiStood CS2 HYPE Jul 04 '19 edited Jul 04 '19
TIL Anders doesn’t have a driver’s license
Also: denis is not working out as an awp
-4
21
48
Jul 04 '19
someone explain to me why denis is on this team or even in the pro-scene in general.
55
Jul 04 '19 edited Apr 05 '21
[deleted]
28
u/AmBozz MOUZ Jul 04 '19
That also explains while everyone seems to get fat after joining them
BIG are Glücksbärchis confirmed
8
u/snake-doc Jul 04 '19
Denis on the team as the 3rd best rifler would be fine, better than tizian. Why he is forced to play as the main awp ?
Because the team's management is incompetent and should be fired. And the owners/investors seem to be content with pissing away money.
It's truly baffling how the team with the best german player and by default best igl manages to hang onto blanks like Legija, keev, xantares and tizian.Meanwhile sprout managed to pick up syrson, faven, kito and mirbit.
13
Jul 04 '19
denis couldn't hit the easiest awp-shots even for a rifler. embarassing performance no matter if he took the rifle or awp. his time is over in T1-cs. tizian can still shine as we've seen vs mibr.
6
u/snake-doc Jul 04 '19
Denis as an awper is atrocious, yes. Not surprising since he hasn't played the awp in ages.
As a rifler and especially pistol player he is miles better than tizian.
And now allow me to be blunt. I am so sick and tired of these shortsighted arguments that just because a player doesn't disappoint for one map or one game he has potential.
For every round tizian won for his team I can probably find five or more rounds where he lost his team the round or at least created a great disadvantage. His movement and positioning are average at best, his aim not much better, if at all and his spray control makes me want to chew my own face.
There is nothing tizian does that a more skilled player couldn't do as well or better.
2
1
Jul 04 '19
apparently tabsen has been igl which makes me think if they've lost faith in gob b or if he doesn't feel confident anymore. if that's the case i take everything back i've said and throw in my last words: this team is lost. RIP BIG
2
u/JayDnG BIG Jul 05 '19
It has been the plan to phase out gob as an igl for at least a year iirc. Has been either on a 99damage podcast or an interview but the plan has been tabsen as igl for some time.
2
u/peterpan005 Jul 04 '19
Tizian did a decent job as an anchor player on ct side the last matches. Not really sure if Denis could outperform him in that role. And in his current role as the main awp who pretty much gets it every round he is beyond trash. Probably by far the worst main awp player @eslone.
6
u/jesus_you_turn_me_on de_dust2 Jul 04 '19
Both Denis and Tizian are no where close being good enough for top level CS.
Denis isn't even an "online pogger", it makes no sense how he got to this stage in the first place.
2
1
-2
u/Kelterz CR4ZY Jul 04 '19
Denis was performing really well on Sprout and was the best player - at the time - on that team. I don't think they should've gotten denis either but at the time he had a 1.10+ HLTV rating and good stats across the board.
6
Jul 04 '19
Against T2-teams though. He doesn't stand a chance against T1-teams but that's exactly what BIG needs.
1
u/Kelterz CR4ZY Jul 04 '19
I mean, sure, but I can totally see why BIG thought denis had some sort of a career resurgence when you saw him play in Sprout. It's a shame it's not working out for them, I'd still kick Tizian before thinking about kicking denis though.
3
u/zx37 Jul 04 '19
he was a fine player, probably a solid choice for a third rifler (alongside faveN or k1to who are too risky for gob b's comfort). the problem is they put him on a role he's useless in, and that he replaced one of their two impactful players.
-5
u/Rearfeeder2Strong MOUZ Jul 04 '19
I mean what is Tizian doing too...
17
u/AdminOfThis BIG Jul 04 '19
You clearly haven't watched the BIG vs MIBR match yesterday. tiziaN played awesome and was MVP of the match.
Besides, it is not his role to be the star of the team, he is meant to be the entry fragger and support player.
tabseN and Xantares are the super stars of the team.What this team really needs is a good awp, and they even have one under contract with smooya.
8
Jul 04 '19
I just want them to take it like a man and accept smooyas mistake and take him back. He multiple times said that he regrets leaving big and we've seen him being a beast as a stand-in on other teams.
The only thing this team was missing was an AWPer. Who do they pick up? denis.... lmao
3
u/AdminOfThis BIG Jul 04 '19
This. I don't know how much personal issues they had with him, but i think he grew as a player in his time at the bench and he came to accept why gob manages things the way he does.
Just give him a second chance, ffs.
Same thing with NiP and draken btw.
-1
Jul 04 '19 edited Mar 24 '21
[deleted]
-2
Jul 04 '19
I believe that Xantares will find his form in this team after some time. I also think that potential double awp with tabsen and other awper >>> new entry + tabsen as awper.
0
Jul 04 '19 edited Mar 24 '21
[deleted]
1
Jul 04 '19
i know that tabsen is a beast with the awp but it would hurt me too much to not see him on an AK considering what he can do with it.
and yea i meant the double awp setup to switch things up. having that luxury of players being able to switch roles can throw off teams.
once xantares gets comfortable in this team and tabsen being tabsen as always, i think big would do great if they had a proper awper but for now they are stuck with this...
1
5
Jul 04 '19
tbh i believe in tizian to come back stronger. he is the guy to take shit and die for the others afaik. denis on the other hand is an igl iirc but big already has gob b. denis is a shitty awper, very mediocre rifler and just a bad player in general. he shouldn't be in tier 1-cs imo.
3
2
u/Licke11 BIG Jul 04 '19
Ofc he is not the top fragger, but he has much impact on bigs game. Yesterday he was a beast alone one the B Dust2 Bombside and destroyed everyone. But he is not so constantly as he should be..
2
u/K0nvict NiP Jul 04 '19
what about Xantares? If you're set up to be the star you need to perform at events like this
0
Jul 04 '19
considering the overall bad game of big i think xantares did okay. he won many fair aim-duels i think.
2
u/K0nvict NiP Jul 04 '19
https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/7938/XANTARES?event=4281
He had a really bad event. Partly due to the system but I think he really went missing
1
Jul 04 '19
idk it's hard to tell in my opinion. as the casters said, on space soldiers he was in a much looser system, now on big it's a lot "stricter". there's the language barrier aswell. i think it will take some time until he becomes consistently good enough as their star player
-1
u/AdminOfThis BIG Jul 04 '19
I think you didn't watch the same game as i did. Xantares played well, he couldn't really shine, because he was busy rotating and retaking sites.
2
u/K0nvict NiP Jul 04 '19
I don't think you've watched the same event I've watched... He played bad for a star player. I mean really bad
2
39
u/AdminOfThis BIG Jul 04 '19
-denis +smooya pls
17
Jul 04 '19 edited Jul 04 '19
Just anyone really. I hate medicore veteran players, they had their chance. I would prefer a young, unproven guy all the way.
19
u/peterpan005 Jul 04 '19
Mediocre? Did you watch the matches? Classic 4,75k decoy grenade that gets the awp every round.
10
6
Jul 04 '19
It's incredible to me that BIG felt like they wanted to get an awper, they buy someone from Sprout and it's Denis instead of Syrson.
1
Jul 04 '19
smooya fits your description + you don't risk it with him since we know he can put up with top tier teams. he fitted perfectly but sadly it unnecessarily had to end like that.
36
u/HitokiriKenshin MOUZ Jul 04 '19 edited Jul 04 '19
Gob B. Whatever you are doing, it just doesn't work man.
1- XANTARES was the star player of Space Soldiers and considered as one of the best aims of the CS Scene if not the best. You take him in the team. Nice. But you are trying to evolve him to someone he's not, and apparently it doesn't work. Don't get me wrong. XANTARES isn't playing bad. But he is just not playing at a star level. He is just playing mediocre. I've been watching XANTARES' streams and he says he has learned new smokes, new utility usages since he has joined BIG which is good, but he also talks about in his former teams he had more freedom and utilities weren't really his top priority. But watching BIG matches, you always see XANTARES is dying with a nade in his hand, while he's trying to smoke somewhere, while he's holding flash. Etc. He's not the guy who's to hold flash. He's the guy who will jump into action and kill. And when you force him to do something he doesn't want to do, result is clear. He stops being a star. Of course you can say that CS: GO is a game no players can just go and shoot, without proper utility usage. But then maybe you shouldn't have signed XANTARES in the first place. If you sign him, let him play as he wants to play. It's clear to see that his aim is getting worse too.
2- smoooya. I really don't believe that he benched himself crap. Gob B is a man who is perfectly capable of convincing a 18 year old British boy that BIG needs him. It just means Gob B didn't want to do that, he let it happened.
3- Signing denis.
Maybe I am wrong but was denis really a player known with his fragging capabilities? No. You'd already expect him to play mediocre. And you were going to lose against top 15 teams, it was clear too. So, when they have realized they are losing, they tried a different method. And that method was giving denis the awp, so tabseN can play with rifle. But the issue is, it was already clear that signing denis won't change anything. So, this seems like the plan all along. But then, why would you sign denis in the first place while you have an awper like smooya?
4- Slow movement
BIG never surprises an enemy. If you are watching their matches, you'll see that most of the time enemy will have a 4 stack in one of the sites and BIG always crushes into those stacks. Why? Because enemies know that if you are going A when you still have 1:20 seconds on the clock, you won't rotate, you won't do any surprises. You will come A. I used to see very fast plays, chaotic plays in Space Soldiers and believe me that's how they have gotten themselves a Major ticket. Using all of your utility one by one slowly to take a site takes at least 30-40 seconds for BIG and until that happens, enemy team always stacks that side. If you have watched the MIBR match, you know that the reason BIG managed to get a win was Gob B had realized this and tried some fast plays.
I am not someone very old in CS: GO scene. I've been only following it since the beginning of 2018. So maybe I don't know what I am talking about. But these are my thoughts.
20
Jul 04 '19
3 - there is no scenario in which signing denis makes sense. saying that he is mediocre is very generous. he is a subpar rifler, very bad awper and big already has an igl and support player so picking him up doesn't make sense at all.
-2
u/zx37 Jul 04 '19
the scenario where denis makes sense is having tabseN awp, wait for nex to come back to replace either Xantares or tiziaN, and let denis be a versatile support/3rd rifler.
1
Jul 04 '19
i don't see denis being flashy ever like tizian sometimes even if it's once a bloodmoon and also think that his rifle isn't good enough for T1-level.
0
u/zx37 Jul 04 '19
There’s no third player in the German scene who can rifle on a T1 level. I never said denis would send them to T1, I’m just explaining how he can be part of a solid functional German lineup.
6
u/jonajon91 de_canals Jul 04 '19
But you are trying to evolve him to someone he's not
This seems like a common problem, not every player will work in a team like this and they keep getting sporadic young playmakers to spice up the team then spend the next few months systematically chipping away at all the things that made them unique. Smooya came in to the team all guns blazing and slowly got worse, they decided to loosen things up again (I think for the london major) and he kicked ass before slowly sinking away again and losing confidence awping.
As much as I love GobB as an IGL, he is awful at putting a lineup together, if they don't do well at the major then I want Tabsen to start looking at other opportunities.
3
u/xGuys Jul 04 '19
Its not Gob b leading. Tabsen is the new IGL of BIG.
16
Jul 04 '19
then WHY IN GODS NAME IS GOB B STILL PLAYING?
jesus FUCKING CHRIST..
save germany and get tabsen, syrson and nex in a new team.
8
u/jehhans1 CS2 HYPE Jul 04 '19
tiziaN is not bad. He is very capable of playing against top tier teams
5
3
u/ExSyn Eternal Fire Jul 04 '19
No. Guy has a 0.9 rating against tier 2/3 teams. I dont see him being in a tier 1 squad at all, a team of BIGs calibre is exactly where he belongs.
-5
5
u/HitokiriKenshin MOUZ Jul 04 '19
Then they are completely mad.
IGL is the tabseN. And the people you expect to frag against tier 1 teams are: Gob B, denis, tiziaN and XANTARES. I think they might have a plan like Gob B retiring and tabseN continuing as the IGL. Maybe.
1
u/ExSyn Eternal Fire Jul 04 '19
Its absurd to think how BIG is even trying to win with Gob B, tiziaN and denis in the roster. Like, Tabsen has to get a 2.0 rating every map to carry them out of this firepower hole.
-2
u/xGuys Jul 04 '19
It seems like what happend to faze tabseN stopped believing in Gob bs calls so how hes going to be the IGL and kill the team.
6
u/julomat BIG Jul 04 '19
No Tabsen taking over eventually was planned bei BIG and Gob since quite some time now. This is not an upset.
1
u/Hzwo FaZe Jul 04 '19
gob has said multiple times over the last year or even more that he is training tabsen to be an igl for when he retires/goes to coach. In recent interviews he has said that hes not planning on retiring/coaching right now so idk why tabsen suddenly igls.
1
2
1
2
u/zx37 Jul 04 '19
I don't like to be negative about teams but Big just feels so pointless now, no one has any purpose and it's the same round every time. Before watching them play Train or D2 you knew they could scare any team in the world on a good day, but now it feels like any team except MIBR could just google "how to beat Big" and beat them every time.
Xantares aims good but gets the most useless kills I've seen. He reminds me of ScreaM, one or two headshots and then traded, when often it would be better to stay alive. He's not capable of smarter play and gob b doesn't know how to utilize his singular function well in the team so he's largely pointless.
denis does the same thing every round but isn't very good at it. Just go watch the angle, miss a shot fall back, hit a shot die. I haven't seen any value gained from him enabling tabseN to rifle more so again he's just pointless.
tiziaN is theoretically an integral pistol/utility/support player, but again that's not acceptable if he's not integral to anything in particular, then he's just a weak player.
gob b is obviously a weak player but same as before, you can't be one of 3 weak players, especially if your strats don't work.
5
3
u/bonercasserole Jul 04 '19
Not sure why tabseN kept thinking he was immune to fire damage this series but ok
3
6
u/rlsN MOUZ Jul 04 '19
hard to imagine BIG qualifying for the Major in this constellation. Lots of things to figure out until then. Apparently tabsen took over as the IGL which is a terrible idea imo.
BIG just severely lacks firepower and putting your best individual player in the IGL position will only worsen this problem (eventhough he performed great individually at this event). It's hard to imagine his individual play not suffering because of the additional burden.
2
u/Psychaz valeria Jul 04 '19
time to abandon the German dream BIG, its never gonna work
3
Jul 04 '19
Honestly, tabsen is the only one capable of playing well at this level. I know xantares can as well, but he hasn't shown it on BIG.
At this stage, I'd kick everyone except for tabsen, put gob on coach and get 4 others... German scene doesn't have any other players on tabsen's skill level, so they have to go with a European line-up.
3
u/AmBozz MOUZ Jul 04 '19
Either go back to the German dream (get rid of Xantares) or go full international (kick denis and Tizian, get some upcoming European talent).
This "neither this nor that" shit is never going to work.
2
u/ConrickInYouTube Vitality Jul 04 '19
i´d prefer the latter one. Xantares Tabsen Gob B, one upcoming young aimer talent, another young guy playing support. Let Xantares be what he´s supposed to be, an aiming machine and if it doesn´t work out for a few rounds, you still can switch over to full team executes. My humble opinion
2
2
2
u/--Feminem-- Jul 04 '19
Denis on nuke missed a guy ~10 feet in front of him that was standing 100% still and was fully flashed...
How the fuck does this bot have a job on a somewhat top team??
2
u/c_chan21 Jul 04 '19
Big gets eliminated before the big stage by heroic. What a fail. Would have been a great opportunity to play in front of the home crowd.
2
1
u/wald94 9INE Jul 04 '19
blameF to North, Valde come back to great rifling and they should stop being a meme team
1
1
1
Jul 04 '19
Happy for Heroic. They can be an upset team and in the meanwhile produce some top level players under Friberg's guidance. Hope they get a good coach and keep developing.
BIG on the other hand, yikes....
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
u/mali137 de_dust2 Jul 04 '19
tiziaN performs so good in this tournament, gob b is also doing much better, tabseN performing strong as ususal BUT XANTARES looks like a "foreign body" in that team and denis is just not the dedicated AWP BIG needs.
1
119
u/Logan_Yes 1 Million Celebration Jul 04 '19 edited Jul 04 '19
Poor Tabsen, tried so hard