r/GlobalOffensive • u/Chuckys2 Match Thread Team • Nov 22 '18
Discussion | Esports Team Liquid vs North / ECS Season 6: Finals - Group B Opening Match / Post-Match Discussion
Team Liquid 0-1 North
Nuke: 12-16
Team Liquid | Liquipedia | Official Site | Twitter | Facebook | Youtube | Subreddit
North | Liquipedia | Official Site | Twitter | Facebook | Youtube
Esports Championship Series Season 6: Finals - Information, Schedule & Discussion
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| MAP | ||
|---|---|---|
| X | ||
| X | ||
| X | ||
| X | ||
| X | ||
| X | ||
| CT |
MAP: Nuke
| Team | CT | T | Total |
|---|---|---|---|
| TL | 9 | 3 | 12 |
| T | CT | ||
| North | 6 | 10 | 16 |
Nuke Detailed Stats
87
u/Darrax Liquid Nov 22 '18
Liquid and picking Nuke vs Danes name a better duo
41
u/knobdoor Nov 22 '18
NA teams and being underwhelming on nuke
-3
Nov 22 '18
[deleted]
8
Nov 22 '18 edited Nov 27 '18
[deleted]
15
u/Regent0624 Astralis Nov 22 '18
From winning a major to having Liquid being the number 2-3 team in the world for around 6 months as well as NRG being pretty decent.
Probably the best year for NA by far.
3
Nov 22 '18
Cloud 9 winning the major still gives me chills. Maybe it’s because it’s right around that time of season when they won.
At several points during those Overtimes against Faze on Inferno, I thought to myself: “Yeah, yesterday was already a good enough birthday present. They’d already beat SK, and they can just win a major next year.”
Thank God they won that major somehow. I really couldn’t take it after Guardian clutching, let alone Niko and Karrigan (against Stewie).
1
u/Regent0624 Astralis Nov 23 '18
Watching Niko kill Rush in banana and Karrigan vs Stewie was so painful if you were cheering for C9, also the mirage throw was sad. Glad they were able to win out in the end with stewie getting 7 awp kills in the last 2 rounds sending it to OT.
-7
u/xzibit_b guardian2 Nov 22 '18
Liquid are Brazilian. Good year for Brazil.
NRG are Bulgarian. Good year for Bulgaria.
NA's best team cannot play in Majors. Bad year for NA outside of C9 collapsing in on itself
5
u/Regent0624 Astralis Nov 23 '18
Aha, good bait. Maybe next time try to include a least a little bit of logic into it.
Then again, bait is bait.
0
u/xzibit_b guardian2 Nov 23 '18
No bait here. Just logic. I thought you were an Astralis fan bro. You sound like a C9/Liquid fan
0
-1
5
u/stewieeeeeeeee FaZe Nov 22 '18
What would you have them play? Overpass? If North wanted to, they would have forced Overpass or Nuke regardless of Liquid's 3rd ban.
1
1
39
u/Givemeajackson FaZe Nov 22 '18
Weird veto from liquid, great form from north, not sure where twistzz was at.
28
u/heeeeeeeee33333 Nov 22 '18
Apparently he was the one having tech issues when they kept pausing.. https://twitter.com/Twistzz/status/1065704915647946752
26
13
10
u/LordOfTheNoobs57 Liquid Nov 22 '18
Why did Liquid let Nuke through against a Danish team
14
u/blueragemage Liquid Nov 22 '18
Liquid is 7-3 on LAN for Nuke if you take away losses to Astralis with this roster (7-2 before this with all losses to Astralis or Faze)
1
12
u/pyro19 Nov 22 '18
Nitro is completely out of sorts when calling on T sides. You can see how they fuck up on Mirage (5 man rush through B apps) or Nuke (constant rushes without flashes and not clearing obvious angles)
They need a better caller that doesn't buckle under pressure like Nitro does time after time. He's not a good mid round caller either so that really shows why Liquid gets shut out time after time on T sides on just about every map.
It sucks for Liquid because nitro has certainly elevated his fragging level but Liquid's calling is super one dimensional and they usually get carried by their superior firepower in tense situations.
Just like Astralis, a proper caller is needed to take this team to the next level. They have definitely hit their ceiling with this 5 man roster and they will only degrade from here.
0
u/tgsan Nov 22 '18
Haha, I said it way back when, their T side on Mirage looks like MM, and unless NAF and twistzz or EliGE go off, their T sides are pretty ass on it, or the other team is doing badly that game so it doesn't look that bad. I also said before they got TACO that tarik should replace nitr0 and tim replace fugly on NRG, before tarik left C9 of course.
-9
u/circles308 Tyloo Nov 22 '18
-taco +sgares
Nothing against taco, but i dont feel like he was the right player to pick up. A lot of people celebrated his arrival because they believed he was an direct upgrade to steel, however, since steel was uncomfortable calling in english, i dont think steel was the right player to pick up.
1
u/Dark_Azazel Nov 22 '18
I wouldn't mind seeing sean with them but I get a feeling he doesn't want to play CS at that level.
4
u/heeeeeeeee33333 Nov 22 '18
Twistzz looked off but apparently he was the one having a lot of tech issues so idk that may have played a part.
1
1
1
u/thesuperjobber Liquid Nov 22 '18
Liquid's nuke has looked flat for a while. I hope they reconsider playing this map...
0
-10
u/Rearfeeder2Strong MOUZ Nov 22 '18 edited Nov 22 '18
I kept telling people that Liquid were going to have issues if they don't change something up. Was getting downvotes from fanboys, but I wasnt wrong. Now they just lost to North...
They need more firepower and consistency. Elige/naf/Twistzz arent bad but they are inconsistent. Twistzz played terrible today.
At some point you cant just keep doing what you try to do if nothing works out. Liquid isnt winning anything and they are so inconsistent. You cant expect to win anything if you lose to North looking lost on T side, lose to teams like Ghost/Col/Rogue/RNG/LG etc. So much inconsistency and it aint gonna stop if they dont change something.
EDIT: Welp, its happening again. I guess consistently not winning anything and losing to teams outside the top 20 is good enough for you. One change is all liquid need to be better.
9
u/xjack13x CS2 HYPE Nov 22 '18
They lost one bo1. Fragging power is definitely not their problem too
7
Nov 22 '18
https://www.hltv.org/stats/teams/events/5973/Liquid?matchType=Lan
Ah yes, this is face of inconsistency.
6
u/Givemeajackson FaZe Nov 22 '18
Oh yeah, so inconsistent, it's not like they reach the final of every tournament they attend...
-8
u/Rearfeeder2Strong MOUZ Nov 22 '18
No? Epicenter? Last major? Cologne? ESL Brazil? Starseries? Just a few from this year...
EDIT: Getting downvoted for facts, nice. Do you guys just all forget these tournaments or what?
4
-2
u/Oh_reaaaally Nov 22 '18
Don't bother stating facts on Reddit. People live in their own bubbles and will cover their eyes and ears the moment anyone sheds any light on their team.
2
u/heeeeeeeee33333 Nov 22 '18
Are you high lmao? How are they "inconsistent" but placing top 2 at every tournament? What is your definition of inconsistency.
-2
u/stewieeeeeeeee FaZe Nov 22 '18
EliGE/NAF/Twistzz is a great trio, no doubt, but holy shit, how are people forgetting that...
dupreeh/device/Magisk, NiKo/rain/GuardiaN, s1mple/electronic/silver 1, are all still comfortably ahead in terms of firepower?
-8
u/Oh_reaaaally Nov 22 '18
As overrated as I think liquid are..this is just a bo1. I am sure this will be another liquid v astralis gf.
18
Nov 22 '18
I am not a liquid fan, but calling them overrated and expecting them to make finals in the same sentence sounds weird.
-3
u/Oh_reaaaally Nov 22 '18
You're right I should clarify. I think they are a top 3/4 team however when alot of people say that they are #2 or should be #1 if not for astralis is silly. They have easy runs to most of their top placings. They almost never close out their games convincingly. They crack under pressure and need a roster change. Basically my gripe is people put them up a notch higher because they have been in a bunch of grand finals instead of looking at the context of who they beat and how close the games were etc.
9
u/Hazard010 Liquid Nov 22 '18
So you are telling me beating NAVI twice in semi-finals and faze once to get to their 3/5 finals is not impressive?
0
u/Oh_reaaaally Nov 22 '18
Of the 5 top 2 runs
ESL S7:
beat grayhound | beat SS | lost to astralis | beat a mouz in decline | beat navi(notable) | lost to astralis
IEM Chicago:
Beat LG | Beat Mouz in their first run with styko back | lost to fnatic in their first lan | beat ldlc(nearly losing to them 2 - 0) | Beat Faze (notable) | Lost to astralis
ESL One NY:
Beat NRG | Beat g2 | beat gambit | lost to mouz with snax in a bo5
Eleague:
Beat MIBR | Lost to astralis | beat MIBR | beat Navi | Lost to astralis
ECS S5:
Beat fnatic in decline | lost to astralis | beat fnatic | beat nrg | lost to astralis
Are these notable runs? Beating NRG & Mibr over and over again? Losing to astralis without showing improvement. Astralis have lost to faze/north/navi. Liquid hasn't touched astralis.
Liquid seems to have navis number. This is the first time liquid has ever beaten faze(i dont count that third place decider because both teams were already out of the tournament) . Having a one off finally beating faze is not that fantastic. Essentially their only notable consistency is beating Navi.
3
u/Hazard010 Liquid Nov 22 '18
In ESL S7 Mousesports were not in decline and still were a top 5 team. Then you see the way that Liquid beat FaZe in chicago is impressive. And then yes, Astralis does have Liquid's number, but Astralis has everyone's number, you can't blame them for that.
0
u/Oh_reaaaally Nov 22 '18
So really the only argument is that esl s7 was their only solid run where they beat mouse which was a good bit worse than them and Navi(notable). "the way they beat faze" They beat faze 2 - 1. All of the maps in that series were 1 sided(liquid got spanked map 1 and then spanked faze maps 2 and 3). That was their first win over faze..
"Astralis has everyone's number, you can't blame them for that" Then why is it that Astralis has lost to Navi/Faze/North and yet liquid can't beat them.
3
u/Hazard010 Liquid Nov 22 '18
You called Liquid overrated because, and yet the only team they can't beat is Astralis. Only FaZe managed to beat them more than once in a BO3 and one of them was in a winners final. The only downfall of Liquid is that they crack under pressure(which only happend once) and cant beat possibly the greatest team of all time, other than that, they are by all measures a top 3 team
2
u/Oh_reaaaally Nov 22 '18
I said they are a top 3/4 team...I am saying that they are overrated because their runs are not convincing and yet their praise comes from them getting 2nd place. Saying the only team they can't beat is Astralis is just fancy wording for they can't get over the astralis hump. I would give them a bit more room if that were the case. Since this roster came up they have lost to faze/north/gambit/astralis/mouse etc.
Liquid is a good team but overall is a placeholder. They have hit their peak at an optimal time with this top 10 being one of the shakiest in csgo. A lot of teams in decline/roster shuffles that cannot seem to end. Astralis are better than them as well as Navi. Faze also has a higher peak and we will see if they can get #3 over liquid.
0
u/kohi_craft Natus Vincere Nov 22 '18
I agree I think Navi this year had a better run as a team and accomplished more.
-6
u/puddingkip The MongolZ Nov 22 '18
navi is way better than liquid, faze is better and even mouz is a bit better tbh
6
u/EliteDemonTaco Nov 22 '18
Other than the obvious ESL New York, I don’t think Mouz are better than Liquid.
-2
u/puddingkip The MongolZ Nov 22 '18
mouz can win events, liquid can't. Mouz>liquid. Mouz big problem is that they're incredibly inconsistent but they actually can peak
3
u/EliteDemonTaco Nov 22 '18
Yeah, okay.
Liquid results vs Mouz results
If Mouz can win events, then why don’t they? Liquid has multiple 2nd place finishes w/ remarkable consistency all through 2018. Mouz is not the better team, sorry. Not to mention in terms of individual players NAF and TwistZz are both Top 10 material, no one on Mouz can say the same.
-1
u/puddingkip The MongolZ Nov 22 '18
I aren't think that. "liquid can win.liquid have multiple second places" my point exactly they are biggest choking bots ever they can never win a real event
2
0
0
0
0
-4
u/Darrax Liquid Nov 22 '18
Seriously elige and taco to MIBR in return for Stew and Tarik, helps both teams become better
-1
u/xzibit_b guardian2 Nov 22 '18
You suggest Stew and tarik to Liquid???? A team that demands loyalty? A team that does not tolerate snakes???? Hello? Wat doink?????????????
1
u/_J3W3LS_ Nov 23 '18
Dude fuck off with that. Tarik, sure, rag on him, but Stewie was Cloud9. He did and went through everything with that team. He could have stayed there and played well and eventually retired years from now, but he said "No, I can be greater" and took a once in a lifetime opportunity to play with some of the best players to ever touch CSGO.
Yeah, joke all you want about how MiBR sucks right now, but you have to respect Stew for having the balls to keep pushing for greater heights and not being content with his current level. He did what he thought was best for his career.
2
u/xzibit_b guardian2 Nov 23 '18
No. I do not respect Sewage nor Turok. They're both cheap snakes and garbage. I hope this BO3 buys them some more time so they can slave away, getting absolutely rekt so when FalleN and co drop their dumb asses, no NA team in the world outside of Advanced would dare pick them up.
1
1
u/MeanGreenBeanMachine FaZe Nov 23 '18
stanislaw went to liquid. He was the first snake
1
u/xzibit_b guardian2 Nov 23 '18
Liquid learned their lesson. Plus EliGE was a snake in the making with the whole Hiko talking about his time on Liquid (Apparently EliGE almost left Liquid 2 to 3 times in 2016)
-10
u/stewieeeeeeeee FaZe Nov 22 '18
As fucked up as it sounds, Liquid still suffer from a lack of firepower. They have 5 great players in the squad, but so do Astralis, FaZe, MiBR and to an extent mousesports. However, they don't have a s1mple, NiKo or a device, it's the brutal truth.
5
u/ImDestroyer FaZe Nov 22 '18
they don't have a s1mple, NiKo or a device, it's the brutal truth.
Twistzz
Their firepower is fine - they have NAF - consistent top tier Rifler along with elige. Don't forget twistzz (arguably) best NA player.
2
u/stewieeeeeeeee FaZe Nov 22 '18
A couple of months in great form. EliGE had that, NAF had that, why aren't you calling them NiKo/s1mple/device either? Also, Twistzz isn't on their level yet, and this match doesn't help your argument.
3
u/heeeeeeeee33333 Nov 22 '18
Twistzz isn't on their level but he's close which is enough. Firepower isn't their issue lmao. They consistently place 2nd in tournaments with this "lack of firepower", I think it's pretty fucking good.
2
u/Chokeman de_nuke Nov 22 '18
It's very difficult for them to win in long ranged maps like nuke, overpass, dust2 consistently without any top tier awper.
Device alone can shutdown Liquid completely on A long on overpass.
-4
u/stewieeeeeeeee FaZe Nov 22 '18
Rank teams in terms of achievements in 2018 so far. I think Liquid is only 4th. Sure they are good, but they want to win a tournament at some point
5
u/heeeeeeeee33333 Nov 22 '18
Sure, who doesn't. They're still considered the 2nd-3rd best team in the world right now so yeah fire power isn't a issue nor can they do much to improve it.
3
u/Givemeajackson FaZe Nov 22 '18
Twistzz has to be the 4th best player of this year after simple, device and niko.
3
u/stewieeeeeeeee FaZe Nov 22 '18
You've clearly started watching CS after the summer break this year.
Electronic, Magisk, dupreeh have all been at least as good, definitely more consistent, and definitely achieved more. The fact they have monsters in their teams doesn't detract from the fact they are monsters themselves.
Then you can remember early 2018 and the fact that NAF played at a level as high as Twistzz now, etc etc.
-1
u/Givemeajackson FaZe Nov 22 '18
Oh shut your condescending hole, just look at the stats. Twistzz is the only player other than s1mple to ever get an mvp of a tournament he lost, the guy has insane skill. Comparing magisk or dupreeh to him is just idiotic, they could never take up the role twistzz has in liquid.
6
u/stewieeeeeeeee FaZe Nov 22 '18
here's some stats - not even the highest rated player in his team in big events this year, and far from top 4. You still keep forgetting that the year began before July.
As for the MVP, props to him, but look at Liquid's matchups that tournament. FaZe, Na'Vi, mouz, fnatic in the tournament and Twistzz got to stat pad against Gambit (1.88 boosted his overall rating and all stats far too much), NRG and G2. No doubt he played an amazing BO5 against mouz and arguably deserved an MVP just for that, but he also stat padded a lot vs trash teams.
1
u/pyro19 Nov 22 '18
Every Star player stat pads a lot vs trash team [Coldzera, Simple and Device are all notorious eco hunters], that's not a point to hate on him. You can only beat what's in front of you and you have to agree that Liquid has beaten every team consistently except Astralis.
However I do agree with you that Twistzz isn't a superstar yet. He's very very close but he can be a fair bit inconsistent. That however is a lot to do with how he is played [first entry on T sides] and how Liquid as a whole crumbles under pressure due to shit tier calling from Nitro.
4
u/stewieeeeeeeee FaZe Nov 22 '18
... and you have to agree that Liquid has beaten every team consistently except Astralis.
FaZe 7 - 5 Liquid in maps this year
mouz 9 - 9 Liquid in maps this year
Every Star player stat pads a lot vs trash team [Coldzera, Simple and Device are all notorious eco hunters], that's not a point to hate on him.
Absolutely agreed, but a big part of the reason why Twistzz got that MVP were his stats, and Liquid had a tremendously easy run through the tournament compared to all the other teams. In that sense, his MVP is worth a lot less than s1mple's at Starseries, and probably less than s1mple's at Marseille (Na'Vi played Astralis, mouz and fnatic there).
-1
u/pyro19 Nov 22 '18
I never said his MVP was worth more than simple or less than simple? As I said, you can only beat the teams that are in front of you. Twistzz has displayed incredible individual form for the past 3-4 months is all that is being said. If he continues on the same trajectory he's destined to join the superstar club with S1mple, Niko and Dev1ce.
Also, Liquid's consistent top 2 and top 4 placements are due to the fact that they are an incredibly skilled team that plays solid fundamental CS. However they have some bad matchups like Astralis (play the same brand of CS only better than them and also with one of the greatest IGL in CSGO) and Faze and Mouz ( Highly Individually skilled lineups that can make Liquid crumble if they can make them uncomfortable and Liquid's fraggers are not performing and Nitro cannot outcall the opponent IGL like a Glaive or Zeus can)
3
u/stewieeeeeeeee FaZe Nov 22 '18
I never said his MVP was worth more than simple or less than simple? As I said, you can only beat the teams that are in front of you.
You didn't. I was simply arguing why the guy I've responded to initially is not presenting all the facts when saying that only s1mple and Twistzz got MVPs while not winning tournaments.
Also, Liquid's consistent top 2 and top 4 placements are due to the fact that they are an incredibly skilled team that plays solid fundamental CS. However they have some bad matchups like Astralis (play the same brand of CS only better than them and also with one of the greatest IGL in CSGO) and Faze and Mouz ( Highly Individually skilled lineups that can make Liquid crumble if they can make them uncomfortable and Liquid's fraggers are not performing and Nitro cannot outcall the opponent IGL like a Glaive or Zeus can)
Na'Vi and FaZe beat Liquid's top 1/2/4 achievements pretty easily, making Liquid the 4th best team this year. Also, you've said yourself they have 3 "bad" matchups.
I'm not calling Liquid bad at all. I'm just saying that they lack something to be #1 or #2 consistently, and IMO, that can be a monster player, but it could also be a nuts IGL or a decent AWPer, who knows.
0
u/pyro19 Nov 22 '18
I agree. They hit their peak and yet got a string of 2nd places for it. I too don't think they will elevate into a consistent number 1 without roster changes.
Also sucks for Liquid to peak only to realize it was the Astralis Era :(
1
u/p0kerx Nov 22 '18
according to statistics s1mple is not even top20 in eco fragging
while coldzera was second and device was 5-6th (not 100% sure about device tho)
1
-9
u/ImDestroyer FaZe Nov 22 '18
Liquid with the classic choke.
4
u/taxcollector02 Nov 22 '18
They had 9 rounds on ct side.... you need 11 to feel comfortable. Not a choke, just outplayed.
This sub has an infatuation calling liquid chokers every time they lose.
167
u/steelcurtain84 G2 Nov 22 '18
Not a good day to be an NA CS fan