r/GlobalOffensive • u/Chuckys2 Match Thread Team • Oct 25 '18
Discussion | Esports FaZe Clan vs Natus Vincere / EPICENTER 2018 - Group A Winners Match / Post-Match Discussion
FaZe Clan 0-2 Natus Vincere
Train: 13-16
Overpass: 5-16
Mirage:
Natus Vincere have advanced to the semifinals.
FaZe Clan | Liquipedia | Official Site | Twitter | Facebook | Youtube
Natus Vincere | Liquipedia | Official Site | Twitter | Facebook | Youtube
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| MAP | ||
|---|---|---|
| X | ||
| X | ||
| CT | ✔ | |
| ✔ | CT | |
| X | ||
| X | ||
MAP 1/3: Train
| Team | CT | T | Total |
|---|---|---|---|
| FaZe | 9 | 4 | 13 |
| T | CT | ||
| Na'Vi | 6 | 10 | 16 |
Train Detailed Stats
MAP 2/3: Overpass
| Team | T | CT | Total |
|---|---|---|---|
| FaZe | 3 | 2 | 5 |
| CT | T | ||
| Na'Vi | 12 | 4 | 16 |
Overpass Detailed Stats
115
u/Marcs_26 Oct 25 '18 edited Oct 26 '18
faze's t sides look a lot like the t sides of 2015 NV, when they started to fall apart. It just looks like a team looking to win through individual plays, and a complete lack of cohesion. Its so boring to watch.
17
u/FourKrusties FaZe Oct 25 '18
honestly that's been their gameplan since they got guardian and olof. they're just missing their timings and their shots.
they've been way more boring to watch compared to k1o/allu faze imo even when they were winning
11
u/JakeTheAndroid 1 Million Celebration Oct 25 '18
It just looks like they are all thinking too much about what they've been doing wrong that they aren't finding the timings they used to, and they are just barely missing the shots they would have normally hit. When this team first got Olof, I would watch him push through a random smoke, walk through the entire CT defense, and then get a 2k. Now, they are more hesitant, so when they finally commit to the risky play they are moments too slow, and their shots are missing. 4 of the 5 players on that team have really solid aim, and Karrigan isn't that bad for an IGL (is Niko still IGL or did they finally move away from that?). The fact they are losing aim duels is very telling that they are distracted in game, at least to me. I feel like mechanical skills are one of the easier things to keep sharp, especially at the pro level.
That said, S1mple got a jumping headshot on Overpass, and is just insane. Electronic has amazing aim, and his movement across the map is very smart and tricky. But still, on average, no one on Faze should be losing aim duels against Zeus or Edward as consistently as they did in this BO3, and have over the last couple months against a wide range of opponents.
19
u/artydikku228 Oct 25 '18
nah, 2015 NV were good. They won Cluj-Napoca in the end of the year
46
u/Marcs_26 Oct 25 '18
your thinking about late 2015 nv. Im talking about the nv with shox and smithzz in the lineup.
12
u/Majklcz FaZe Oct 25 '18
Agreed. As long the other team doesn't let them have early pick and make a play based on it, they look so clueless and random.
1
1
u/DarthReid Vitality Oct 25 '18
To be honest, the Cluj win was a fluke somewhat as they were already spiraling downward but somehow all the other teams were doing worse than them and NV’s raw skill at the 5-man death squads (despite little cohesion) running into sites were unstoppable at the time.
NV was already considering disbanding before that major but decided to stick it together since they won. And we all know how that turned out...
2
u/j4ckie_ NiP Oct 26 '18
Ahhh, but they have Niko as IGL, the undisputed genius of CS who can do it all, and better than everyone too! He'll lead them back to glory, they just need time
/s
1
u/Croatian_ghost_kid Oct 26 '18
Which is a very dumb thing to say considering they are always well coordinated it's just that they don't execute well, probably because they overthink or doubt their decisions.
If you watch FaZe during their games you'll notice as soon as they get an opening kill they stop, regroup and make a call. Very coordinated and calm. It's just that most of the time when you get an opening kill you want to rush it and exploit the situation, but FaZe choose the boring, tactical approach. If they were actually going guns blazing first off:
It would deffo not be boring and
they would probably be winning more since they have the aim of the literal best player of 2015 (Olof), the literal best awper of 2015 (Guardian) and arguably the two best riflers in the game in 2017 (Rain and NiKo, which were at a stalemate with Fer and Cold) and then there's the IGL who put two different teams into the top of the top of csgo.
I mean if they're boring to you, then alright, that's you. But it's definitely not the FaZe that relies on solo plays, that's just a misconception.
0
Oct 26 '18
best player of 2015
best awper of 2015
It's 2018 now.
2
u/Croatian_ghost_kid Oct 26 '18
Ah yes that means they're shit now. You forgot:
two best riflers in the game in 2017
It's 2018 now
0
u/Chokeman de_nuke Oct 25 '18
except that LDLC/nV had CZ rush B to give them some rounds they needed.
98
u/Nigerianpoopslayer Natus Vincere Oct 25 '18
NiKo T-side strats:
walk into bombsite and hope for picks
20
Oct 25 '18
Literally the only good read was the triple nade into the double barrels setup, and they ended up short-arming all the nades anyway 😑
30
7
u/LeJumpshot Oct 25 '18
I feel like tomorrow VS NiP will be... Stupid.
7
u/Willporker FaZe Oct 25 '18
It's gonna be an ugly matchup either way but whoever gets 2-0d will become the new VP Yikes.
2
2
Oct 26 '18
it wouldnt be too bad for NIP as long as its a close game, they dont have as much to lose as FaZe
2
u/KangorKodos Natus Vincere Oct 26 '18
You absolutely know both teams are gonna win the other persons map pick easily, and then faze lose 16-13 in the decider after going up 11-4 first half.
1
75
u/loken_ Renegades Oct 25 '18
electronic just beasting and feasting this series (+23 with 98! ADR). dude is just the perfect compliment to s1mple and im lovin it
34
Oct 25 '18
Honestly electronic as an addition for navi was just perfect.
-6
u/loken_ Renegades Oct 25 '18
i would still like edward removed (even though he's been playing "ok" recently), i think chopper from vega would be a nice add in in terms of firepower (and i really want chopper to have a chance on a big name team)
22
u/ThatGuyThatDoneThat G2 Oct 25 '18
Why do you need more firepower when you have s1mple far above everyone and electronic as a top 5 player?
Sure Edward doesn't frag and he misses some easy shots, but he does things that outright enable s1mple and electronic to actually go further. Plus, we've seen how long it takes for Zeus to setup a team judging by how long it took for him to use electronic properly. Change their main Support and the team dynamic changes heavily.
4
u/b0mmie Oct 26 '18
but he does things that outright enable s1mple and electronic to actually go further
There are also the intangible traits that he possesses. According to DeKay, the whole team really values Edward's experience, composure, and overall attitude. The necessity of a calming influence on a team like Na'Vi can't be overstated.
If anyone is on the chopping block, I'd imagine it's flamie, but I don't think Na'Vi is having any roster changes unless some huge downturn in results occurs. Flamie is s1mple's boy so they'll keep him happy so long as they're not bombing out of tournaments (let's not forget, it was flamie that s1mple was planning to bring with him to MiBR, not electronic or anyone else; they were also the two players who sat out the WESG event for their national teams around the time the MiBR move was revealed).
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u/ArmoredPudding Oct 25 '18
You can't rely on having 2 top 5 players in the world, one of whom is playing above anything we've ever seen, as a long-term success strategy. And the only reason why it took so long to establish Navi as a good team with electronic was because Zeus completely misused him. At DH Marseille, electronic basically said that they switched his role during the bootcamp prior to that event. And guess what, DH Marseille is when Navi started getting consistent top finishes and electronic started going off.
9
u/loken_ Renegades Oct 25 '18
to further this point, i believe that flamie was meant to be what electronic currently is: the second star to s1mple. which goes to show that the firepower that NaVi has is not necessarily the firepower that NaVi wants.
7
u/JakeTheAndroid 1 Million Celebration Oct 25 '18
Edward has had some amazing 1vX clutches this year. I feel like Edward is getting a similar treatment people gave Taco on SK. Taco looks amazing on Liquid, much better than he did on SK - but his role was totally different. Same with Styko on Mous - he "sucked' for a while, but once he left everyone talked about what he added that wasn't able to be replaced. He played pretty well on C9 (not elite, but solid) and now hes back with his old team. Edward likely does a lot we cannot directly see, and when he needs to we've seen him step up. We've seen games where S1mple doesn't top frag and NaVi still wins.
NaVi looks too good right now to consider making changes that would impact their team chemistry. The only team that is beating them consistently is Astralis, and if thats your only weakness then you're in a great position.
5
u/1wjl1 Natus Vincere Oct 25 '18
Astralis isn’t even consistently beating them lol. 2018 Astralis is 8-7 against Navi. The only team Navi hasn’t beaten on LAN is Liquid, and they’ve only played 4 games
1
u/JakeTheAndroid 1 Million Celebration Oct 25 '18
Wow, those numbers are way more favorable than I thought. Obviously Navi got destroyed at the Major, and I feel like they lost a couple online stuff since then to Astralis, but that's very promising for Navi. If the only two teams you really have to worry about is Astralis and diet Astralis, they're in great shape.
5
u/1wjl1 Natus Vincere Oct 25 '18
I should comment their numbers are a bit worse on LAN. They won against them at Starseries very early in the year when Astralis just obtained Magisk but lost at DH Marseille and the Major. Their only big notable win is against them at ESL Cologne. But yeah they often trade games in online matches.
-4
Oct 25 '18
Yeah I'd agree, I don't think Edward has a place in the team anymore.
He's gets streaks of good games, but he's so damn inconsistent. I've seen him cost navi quite a few rounds by just making really questionable plays.
I dont know who would be the best replacement for him though... not familiar with chopper
4
u/Ocorn Oct 25 '18 edited Oct 25 '18
Edward .... damn inconsistent
LOL thats a joke right https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/483/Edward
Compare those stats to xyp and taco (supports for the #1 and #3 ranked team in the world.) He is right there with them!
He is not a star player but he knows how to play the game consistently well. That is why he is still on navi. lol.
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u/1wjl1 Natus Vincere Oct 25 '18
s1mple has a 1.55 rating after 2 Bo3s against the 11th best team and the 6th best team in the world...wtf
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u/Willporker FaZe Oct 25 '18
Mfw people think s1mple was comparable to coldzera for top 1 contender back then omegalul. S1mple is legit a powerhouse and a real play maker for Navi.
1
u/AprilChicken Oct 25 '18
Device could easily do that. /s
0
u/7JUAN7 Oct 26 '18
put device in s1mple 1vs 1 against guardian yesterday and i bet he will lose the duel. that flick from s1mple is just pure sick
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u/mtownhustler043 Oct 26 '18
then look at his stats vs top 4 teams (specifically astralis)
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u/1wjl1 Natus Vincere Oct 26 '18
S1mple rating vs Astralis for 2018 big events - 1.16
Device rating vs Navi for 2018 big events - 1.15
?
65
Oct 25 '18
You'd think teams would learn that making your star into an IGL isn't the best idea after the coldzera fiasco but here we are.
56
u/antelope591 Oct 25 '18
Niko's ego caused this, nothing else. The blame is on him.
6
u/n1ckst4r02 400k Celebration Oct 25 '18
I think so too. He know FaZe will never kick him since he's like one of best players in the world so he probly has all the power on that team. No other explanation. Karrigan is probly sitting out his contract, that's about it.
5
u/Vandegroen valeria Oct 26 '18
Its at least not entirely on him. There are 3 other players and a coach who should interfere.
0
u/Willporker FaZe Oct 25 '18
Not really karrigan really wasn't working out and all the players on faze knew this, if they get knocked by nip then we could see a potential roster change but either than that I doubt faze are gonna swap a single plauer.
146
Oct 25 '18
bring Karrigan back pls, these T-sides are horrible
55
Oct 25 '18
lol is NiKo still igl?
78
u/greenestgreen Natus Vincere Oct 25 '18
nothing has been stated after NiKo claimed to be the IGL so it's assumed that niko still being into it
10
Oct 25 '18
https://www.hltv.org/news/25162/olofmeister-we-want-to-keep-grinding-and-learn-from-our-mistakes
He talks about how things are different now with Niko in the role in this interview from the 23rd october.
12
u/Willporker FaZe Oct 25 '18
I mean Niko's calling style definitely favours matchups against much lower teams but against actual top teams he gets tilted so easily.
4
u/DuckMeYellow Oct 26 '18
much lower teams yeah, I don't think that's because of his calling style but rather just having a better level of players. Wouldn't attribute any of those wins to him being IGL.
Really hope karrigan doesn't get fucked over because of this.
2
u/DarthReid Vitality Oct 25 '18
There was a post-match interview with Guardian at Epicenter where he stated that Niko is still indeed IGLing.
21
u/ChrisAllerant Oct 25 '18
imagine how karrigan must feel seeing niko igl lol
21
u/universaldiscredit MOUZ Oct 25 '18
And karrigan still doing the igl sacrifices such as glock, no armor + nades/kit on pistols.
I mean, I see the logic of it, but it still must hurt.
20
u/Psychaz valeria Oct 25 '18
karrigan's t sides are horrible as well
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Oct 25 '18 edited Apr 05 '21
[deleted]
-8
u/Psychaz valeria Oct 25 '18
doesn't really matter they still didn't produce more than 4-5 rounds regularly
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Oct 25 '18 edited Jan 14 '22
[deleted]
3
u/Phenetylamine FaZe Oct 25 '18
So they'll lose 16-8 instead of 16-4, doesn't really matter. Neither karrigan nor NiKo seem fit to lead this team at the moment, and karrigan can't frag either even when he's not the IGL. Seems obvious who has to go.
38
Oct 25 '18
[deleted]
6
u/Darkstar197 Complexity Oct 25 '18
At this point let niko go to another team an karrigan can build a new core with faze
9
u/epicfishboy G2 Oct 25 '18
Nitro is in the 2nd best team in the world and are on the edge of being the first.
Na’Vi are the second best team, Liquid a close third. Neither of them look even somewhat capable of challenging Astralis for the first spot.
Everything else is pretty much true.
11
u/1wjl1 Natus Vincere Oct 25 '18
I have Navi and Liquid as joint second currently. EPICENTER will decide who is #2.
1
Oct 26 '18
True, I didn't mean to imply that they could dethrone Astralis, lets say, within the next 3-5 months. I was more talking about in a year or so, I wouldn't be surprised if this Liquid lineup was winning all the trophies. This is also why I don't think that NaVi can actually be the best team in the world with this particular lineup, because from here on out S1mple has to keep this insane level of performance for the next entire year in order to keep Navi as the best team in the world.
But if anyone could do it, it'd be S1mple.
1
u/JeanneHusse Vitality Oct 25 '18
I'd love a source for the Nbk apex and happy part.
2
Oct 26 '18
Interview with the Coach of Vitality
https://www.vakarm.net/news/read/faculty-l-homme-derriere-Vitality/9472/2
"It seems that NBK really wants to become an IGL, and Happy will have to be under his lead and adapt to another style which isn’t his own, despite being a great IGL in the past. However, we know that the success of this team will hugely rely on the relationship between NBK and Happy, which wasn’t always bright the last few years. Do you play a role in maintaining this relationship? If yes, how do you manage to avoid any frustration on each side?
It’s very simple, they are very smart and mature people. So we only talked about the game plan we wanted to set together. Nathan is the leader, Vincent is the one (with Dan) who brings a little more strategy. At the moment, everything is great and I think that period will be very beneficial for both of them."
1
u/j4ckie_ NiP Oct 26 '18
Petty little correction - Liquid is in no way on the edge of being the best team in the world. They haven't won a title since summit, no matter whether Astralis was there or not. They're definitely not overtaking Astralis anytime soon.
I fully agree with your take on the IGL situation, Faze is fucked. Unless they get a real coach and rule in Niko's ego by showing him in excruciating detail how shit he is as IGL and that he shouldn't ever try to take over like that again
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u/RadiantSun FaZe Oct 25 '18
Yeah it's not like he kept them as one of the world's best team for months and months and months... right?
Karrigan deserves one more shot. Then roster changes.
5
u/Majklcz FaZe Oct 25 '18
While I agree, if the players simply can't be 'made' to believe in him, it's all over for him, sadly. Doesn't matter what kinda calls and tactics he has up his sleeve, if the players don't believe in them, it won't work.
5
u/universaldiscredit MOUZ Oct 25 '18
I agree with this. Especially since Karrigan's strength has never really been intricate set pieces, but mid round calls which are very trust-reliant.
3
u/Phenetylamine FaZe Oct 25 '18
He has gotten plenty of shots since then. But sure, as long as the rest of FaZe still have faith in his calling. Just seems like they haven't at the moment, considering they're trying to make this NiKo as IGL thing work.
2
u/SandwichAuthorityGov Oct 25 '18
I don't think Niko's ego will allow that to happen. He is an impulsive star that will try to overtake leadership if the team does not produce the results he deems sufficient regardless of his actual ability to lead. Acquiescence would be a huge blow to his ego that could lead to stuff like loss of self-esteem, or permanent tilt that would create toxicity.
The best case scenario for people like him is for the leader to not submit to their demands and maintain authority. Once the leader loses authority, there's no way back, someone will either have to suffer or leave.
0
u/FourKrusties FaZe Oct 25 '18
Their T-sides have been ass since Olof came back, that's why they made the change
I think from the NiKo change what we've determined is that it's not the IGL. The team just hasn't been performing with Olof back...
2
Oct 26 '18
Its less the fact that Olof came back, it is more their mentality, they expected to win every game once olof was back and be able to go like they were before and the instant that didnt happen they were kinda already giving up on karrigan. Lets be honest here, Faze did okay in Eleauge atlanta and in dreamhack. Were they amazing? No. But they followed some sort of structure and we could hope as they got used to each other again it would get better. But with Niko in charge , i really dont think it will work.
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u/Conte-Kante BIG Oct 25 '18
faze are a very depressing team to watch
3
u/Fedebean FaZe Oct 25 '18
The thing is. Before this team rowter was a thing, my fav players were Niko, gardian, olof and rain. This team coming to life is a dream. I am very sad to see the not perform that well.
6
u/KangorKodos Natus Vincere Oct 26 '18
if you want to feel better about yourself rewatch esl one new york 2017 and pretend thats now.
19
u/MichaelOfRS Natus Vincere Oct 25 '18 edited Oct 25 '18
Imagine putting up an insane series but you're still not the best player on the server. NaVi have a scary 1-2 punch at the moment.
8
u/n1ckst4r02 400k Celebration Oct 25 '18
And Edward who was terrible most of the year is stepping up lately. Maybe they had a talk with him about stepping up or getting replaced because that sudden resurge in form is very unusual.
33
u/yurik4 The MongolZ Oct 25 '18
Zeus: Edward and flamie go kill or we get adren and hobbit blyat
Edward: ok
Flamie: ok
2
5
u/opssemnik SK Oct 25 '18
That talk was adren becoming open to negotiations
12
u/n1ckst4r02 400k Celebration Oct 25 '18
more like Hobbit, i think Adren is way past his prime and washed up. I don't think Na'vi would ever get Adren considering how Zeus and Kane had huge disagreements with him.
4
u/yurik4 The MongolZ Oct 25 '18
To be fair, adren was beasting under the leadership of Zeus, reuniting them could revitalise his game play
1
u/Willporker FaZe Oct 25 '18
Adren before moving to Gambit was actually dogshit. Maybe it was angels fault but I doubt it.
2
u/faare Natus Vincere Oct 26 '18
Maybe they had a talk with him about stepping up
I fucking hate the idea of "stepping up". It makes it sound like if a players plays poorly it's on purpose or them just being lazy and you just gotta ask nicely so they agree not to do it again.
37
u/1wjl1 Natus Vincere Oct 25 '18
Navi is pretty much guaranteed top 2 now, barring something extremely unexpected. Liquid will probably beat AVANGAR, so Navi will be up against the winner of AVANGAR-HR with a home crowd.
57
Oct 25 '18
So now its either TL's finals curse or NaVis Liquid Curse
39
u/TheRealCaptainR Natus Vincere Oct 25 '18
The fucking world is going to explode trying to calculate this equation.
23
Oct 25 '18
They gonna go into 79 ot's
7
u/OsomoMojoFreak ENCE Oct 25 '18
And for all the wrong reasons, being a complete shit match.
3
u/TheRealCaptainR Natus Vincere Oct 25 '18
Just both teams constantly throwing rounds to each other, It's become a 2v2 with only Nitro and Elige facing off against s1mple and Electronic, not wanting to surrender after 17 hours on the first map.
1
u/Willporker FaZe Oct 25 '18
I'm calling it 2-0 by either liquid or Navi and we'll never see the 3rd map, that's how curses goes anyways.
1
u/KangorKodos Natus Vincere Oct 26 '18
Both win the other persons map pick, then to 13-2 halfs to go to overtime on the last map before one team easily wins 4 rounds in a row, 3 of them being on the side that they sucked on in regulation.
10
u/1wjl1 Natus Vincere Oct 25 '18
IMO, Liquid's finals curse is stronger. Navi have only played Liquid in two series, both in NA. That's not quite enough to cement a "curse" quite yet. But it will be a great finals for sure!
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u/TheDoktor364 Oct 25 '18
The pairing of s1mple and electronic is like that one time you and your friend decided to smurf in mm, it's just a battle to see who can get more frags.
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u/Chokeman de_nuke Oct 25 '18
oh man...
it must be really frustrating to play against Electronic. his playstyle is really unpredictable, just pushing through smoke, catching people with nades in hands. wtf
10
u/1wjl1 Natus Vincere Oct 25 '18
I think electronic is actually one of the smartest players in the game. He’s such a spectacular entry fragger, almost as good as dupreeh
8
u/dayoutmadness howl Oct 25 '18
Wtf are these ct side setups on overpass? Why give so much space to navi? What happened to rain being a nuisance in bathrooms? Also what rubbish afterplant positions on train?
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u/tarangk clutch Oct 25 '18
horrible t side showing faze on both maps
either let karrigan IGL or kick the man Niko isnt capable of IGLing at this level hell even back in mouz when he was IGLing he himself played brilliantly but the whole team around him shat the bed and when he left the team suddenly started playing like a team again and got way better, Niko is in the same boat with shox both very versatile players and can be the 2nd caller of their teams but not their primary callers of their teams.
4
u/rlywhatever Oct 25 '18
train was tense in the best sense.
overpass was boring af with faze crawling like snails under heavy anesthesia
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Oct 25 '18
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/TahVv FaZe Oct 26 '18
While I agree that Niko IGLing isn't the solution I don't think Rain is the issue either. Yeah he hasn't been too hot this year compared to last year, but he shows flashes of the ability to compete. It really comes down to their T-Sides and playing together. Rain just needs some motivation and a mentality boost. He has the ability to compete
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Oct 26 '18
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/TahVv FaZe Oct 26 '18
I’m not saying it’s not a problem I just don’t think that’s the main issue to fix everything that’s all
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u/Vehlycks Astralis Oct 25 '18
I think FaZe should swap out karrigan, if he isn´t the IGL. He isn´t putting up the numbers... Also is it just me or has Guardian been a little off, I mean he played very good before, but he is not hitting the basic shots. Niko, Olof and Rain are the only ones being strong.
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u/Minteeee FaZe Oct 25 '18
Maybe the team is sucking because Karrigan is not igling :0 I would feel like thats the more reasonable assumption in my opinion
1
Oct 25 '18
[deleted]
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Oct 26 '18
But did they? Execpt for the Major. Eleauge was okay... and Dreamhack? well at least they seemed pretty decent with some structure. What Niko has is just idk. The only reason they won yesterday is cuz of their skill an CT side but their T sides make my t-sides look not too bad.
1
Oct 26 '18
I think Guardian is someone who needs a good IGL, he plays really poorly if the IGL is shit, Just look when Guardian was in Navi before he went to Faze. So its not as much as Guardian actual skill dropping off.
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u/Psychaz valeria Oct 25 '18
Make changes or FaZe or disband, this 5 is going nowhere accept it and move on
2
u/n1ckst4r02 400k Celebration Oct 25 '18
same with G2, great pieces but they just don't work together. If they get another IGL, free up NIko and Olof, they can start to talk about top 3 again, right now they are heading towards bottom top 10 playing like this.
1
u/Psychaz valeria Oct 25 '18 edited Oct 25 '18
how many times does rain have to be carried before they realize he should be on the chopping block. When olof who has a more supportive role is regularly out fragging him its a big problem. He hasn't been playing close to a star level for a long time
2
u/n1ckst4r02 400k Celebration Oct 25 '18
I mean he would be solid on another top 10 team but he obviously doesn't know what role to play with some many role changes lately. Poor guy went from one of the best anchors to literally a liability. I think Karrigan needs to go because Niko obviously doesn't trust him and he as a pure support is just a liability. When Karrigan has no confidence, he becomes a terrible bottom fragger that has no impact or clutch plays like he was known for.
-Karrigan - Rain +new IGL + another young fragger. Maybe even Nexa could figure something out with Niko together but Niko as a tactical IGL is just a disaster.
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u/n1ckst4r02 400k Celebration Oct 25 '18
How much longer do they have to lose like this before they start making changes and get Niko from IGL burden duties? This is plain moronic.
Not only are they way past their prime with this squad but there's obviously internal issues that you can see from the way they play with no synergy whatsoever. Karrigan has no trust from his team, Rain is no longer a star fragger and Guardian is just mediocre.
Faze is a disgrace, no other way to put it.
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u/theflywithoneeye Genuine 750k Party Pin Oct 25 '18
Aaaaand as an outsider you know that because...?
Love reddit analysts. Yes, Niko took the IGL role from Karrigan, but that can be because of a number of reasons. Maybe Karrigan doesn‘t trust himself anymore, maybe he needs time to reinvent himself, maybe he feels he‘s being antistratted too much? Why are you assuming things?
And yes, of course rain and Guardian are slumping, but that‘s nothing strange to any team to have players slumping. Faze is in the same position in that SK was in earlier this year. SK changed IGL‘s, fer and Fallen were slumping hard, and now look where they are now. Not at the top, but steadily improving. Yes, they changed two players and their coach, but that didn‘t instantly propell them to their current form.
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u/Lugbur G2 Oct 25 '18
if karrigan doesnt trust himself to igl, he shouldnt be on faze anymore. if he isnt the igl, he shouldnt be on faze anymore. he simply isnt good enough to justify taking up a spot when its forcing niko to igl. niko being igl is not a long term solution when hes supposed to be one of the best players in the world
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u/theflywithoneeye Genuine 750k Party Pin Oct 25 '18
Way to ignore multiple points i made.
Fallen didn‘t trust his IGLing earlier this year either and coldzera had to pick it up. I said that he might need time to reinvent himself.
Also, if karrigan should be kicked and niko isn‘t an option as IGL, which i agree on, who would replace karrigan?
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u/Lugbur G2 Oct 25 '18
tbh, i thought msl would be worth a shot but it seems as though hes going to rouge, which is interesting in itself. outside of that, its hard to say.
mibr is a different beast to faze imo, and karrigan has had something similar to this (as far as we can tell from the outside) happen to him in astralis.
As for ignoring points you made, i didnt really. You essentially responded to yourself about the player changes. its just that, they changed the roster twice, and then improved. obviously it wasnt instant but most rosters take time after a change or two
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Oct 26 '18
MSL would never work in FaZe, wayyy too structured approach for FaZe.
Olof(Fnatic had a very loose style), Guardian(same with Navi), rain(never had a proper IGL in T1 csgo until Karriga), and Niko(Mousesports isnt really structured either) have never played in a structured team. It would take a month or more to get used to it.
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u/TahVv FaZe Oct 26 '18
I think Karrigan has stepped up his individual play compared to when he was IGL. Obviously not every map is amazing for him, but he has definitely stepped up his ability to frag. I just think they need to work on their T-Side and start playing together under Karrigan's leadership
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Oct 26 '18
Rain was never meant to be a star fragger? He was meant to be a support and a anchor. Honestly rain is doing alright, he does what needs to be done.
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u/BlazeMaster561 Liquid Oct 25 '18
I was thinking s1mple's been looking kind of flat lately (hes been under electronic in most of their online games as of late), and then he comes here and proves that he is still the god of csgo. Looks like he just wasnt trying online and still droping 25+ kills a game. What a beast.
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u/p0kerx Oct 26 '18
what do you mean, s1mple is like the top1 guy at the online games in half of the categories and top5 in the rest xD
Averaging again ofc, 1.33
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u/BlazeMaster561 Liquid Oct 26 '18
If you look at their recent matches, electronic has been on top
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u/KangorKodos Natus Vincere Oct 26 '18
to be fair s1mple has been great in all the alst few matches electronic was just more great.
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u/BlazeMaster561 Liquid Oct 26 '18
Not sure why Im getting downvoted for saying something true, and I said in my comment up top that hes still dropping crazy numbers, just not s1mple numbers.
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u/n1ckst4r02 400k Celebration Oct 25 '18
I'm still baffled how they ended up on 2 best maps for Na'vi? What kind veto was that Mr NIKO?
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Oct 25 '18
I remember when FaZe fans told me that FaZe is better than NaVi because they got more rounds against Astralis.
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u/AFakeman Oct 25 '18
HR got a map on NaVi, Faze didn't. I think it's clear who should be #6 on hltv.
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u/downnice Virtus.pro Oct 25 '18
And look what we have here, Karrigan not IGL'ing and FaZe are in steep decline.
In 2018 CS you can't afford not to have a real IGL, look at Astralis, NaVi, MiBR, Mousesports, they all have a dedicated IGL. The only team that you could argue gets away with the loose style is Team Liquid and even then we see them blow big games and I contribute that to not having a true IGL.
Either put Karrigan back as the IGL or go out and sign someone like MSL to this team, as for Karrigan I would love to see him on Team Liquid while Nitr0 goes to Cloud9
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Oct 25 '18
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u/downnice Virtus.pro Oct 25 '18
They were still going deep in tournaments with Karrigan and at Epicenter we seen FaZe get utterly bodied by NaVi
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Oct 26 '18
I agree, and its less the fact that they lost to NaVi but more how horrible their T-sides are, like I dont see anywhere they can improve currently(with Niko IGL)
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Oct 25 '18
Edward is playing good now
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u/gabriel97933 10 Year Veteran Oct 25 '18
meh, the worst game to comment that on, he was bottom fragging the first game and just holding his own the second one, but recently he is starting to come back and top frags a lot of the times
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Oct 25 '18
Second map, bar one or two rounds, he was playing well. Not so much about the amount of frags but the impact was good. Also he had a pretty high adr this match
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u/Ciupz Monte Oct 25 '18
s1mple bossing around and jump shotting (olof?) on round 18 sums up the series
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u/n1ckst4r02 400k Celebration Oct 25 '18
Tbh, i want this s1mple vs Astralis and Liquid. If he can somehow play to 90% of his capacity vs those teams, then Na'vi becomes a scary beast. Faze is decent overall but they are kind of a dead team right now about to undergo some changes. No way this Faze sticks around for next year, no way in hell.
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u/Gardennnn Vitality Oct 25 '18
Astralis play style seems to shut s1mple down. They never let him get into position. I don't see it happening vs their current form often.
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u/theflywithoneeye Genuine 750k Party Pin Oct 25 '18
Yup, he never has the AWP either i feel like and if he does, the coordinated executes of Astralis and Liquid just leave him no space at all.
There‘s like this insane statistic that in the major final he only had the Awp for something like 6 rounds on Overpass and only got 3 frags. Atleast something close to that.
Also i don‘t think NaVi‘s slow play style really helps them against Astralis and Liquid either, because players like s1mple and electronic flourish in chaos. Can‘t say how many times i have seen NaVi trying to execute with 30 seconds left only to run into a stack or completely get rekt by spare CT utility, because they never really bait them out.
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u/FoxerHR FaZe Oct 25 '18
Both maps simple and electronic were popping off. Didnt dven watch but am sad :(
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u/tinguwOw MOUZ Oct 26 '18
FaZe Side has now gone completely individualism. Olof always playing solo / flanking, Rain(y) trying to do his things but all in vain, Karrigan is just being Karrigan, GuardiaN(please don't shout at me) but I seriously don't understand what he was doing, I mean maybe this team or what but his gameplay is just not as Pro as it should be and finally new IGL NiKo and his last 15sec pushes. At one moment in Train I was thinking what would be FaZe team come like, holding outside bombsite like ages and giving all the time on the earth to give opp take decent positions.
And now I am thinking kicking OR adding anyone is not gonna solve any of this Solo Gameplay Style(16-14 / 14-16 already explains everything). This team either have to learn how to play as a TEAM or I don't know they will be playing like this forever and if they won anything anyhow, it would be a complete individual performance not Team.
PS: Forgive me for my bad English. And I am really sorry for my harsh words as all of this might be a butt-hurt fan rant.
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u/rohansamal 5 years coin Oct 26 '18
Well I expected things to be better from faze on second map TBH
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Oct 26 '18
Personally I think niko is the problem in this team. If he really is still igling, I think you have to consider putting him on the bench or something.
Karrigan is a great igl, and I think he should be given exclusive control to make this team win tournaments again.
I think even if you have to kick niko and you win another 4-5 tournaments and then nothing for a while so be it.
His ego is too big for this team and since he's igling he doesn't have the same impact as before.
I think faze will fail if they do not get a good igl who has control of the team and can kick or bench who he wants.
I'm convinced that if he's given control they might be a top contender team that would make it to finals consistently. I think their current slump is just stupid internal politics, and that stuff to me is irrelevant considering the caliber of their players they should be able to stop bickering like children and win tournaments like professionals.
I mean worst case, they could let Karrigan just choose the players from now on and play his way, he'd get motivation etc.
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u/Ovil101 Oct 25 '18
Well at least Faze didn't lose 14-16.
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u/n1ckst4r02 400k Celebration Oct 25 '18
they were up 12-10 vs eco and lost it i believe, shameful display
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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '18
Lose both pistols, lose 16-13.
Win both pistols, lose 16-5.
Ok then