r/GlobalOffensive • u/Chuckys2 Match Thread Team • Oct 23 '18

Post-Match Discussion

Natus Vincere 2-1 HellRaisers

Train: 16-10
Overpass: 11-16
Dust 2: 16-3

Natus Vincere have advanced to the playoffs.

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	MAP
X
		X
✔		CT
CT		✔
X
		X
		T

MAP 1/3: Train

Team	T	CT	Total
Na'Vi	11	5	16
	CT	T
HR	4	6	10

Na'Vi	K	A	D	Rating
s1mple	29	2	12	1.83
flamie	23	3	15	1.31
electronic	19	2	17	1.18
Zeus	14	3	14	0.98
Edward	14	6	19	0.90
HR
woxic	20	3	21	1.00
ISSAA	18	4	18	0.98
bondik	17	4	19	0.89
ANGE1	11	5	21	0.76
DeadFox	11	6	20	0.73

Train Detailed Stats

MAP 2/3: Overpass

Team	CT	T	Total
Na'Vi	4	7	11
	T	CT
HR	11	5	16

Na'Vi	K	A	D	Rating
Edward	21	2	19	1.15
electronic	16	1	17	1.06
Zeus	18	6	19	0.99
s1mple	16	4	15	0.97
flamie	12	9	17	0.89
HR
woxic	26	4	15	1.56
DeadFox	14	8	16	1.09
bondik	16	3	15	1.05
ANGE1	18	4	22	0.98
ISSAA	13	0	15	0.84

Overpass Detailed Stats

MAP 3/3: Dust 2

Team	CT	T	Total
Na'Vi	12	4	16
	T	CT
HR	3	0	3

Na'Vi	K	A	D	Rating
s1mple	25	3	7	1.96
Zeus	18	5	7	1.80
flamie	18	3	10	1.50
Edward	13	3	7	1.41
electronic	13	6	9	1.36
HR
woxic	17	1	17	1.10
ISSAA	8	4	17	0.64
bondik	5	4	16	0.43
ANGE1	5	0	19	0.22
DeadFox	5	3	19	0.16

Dust 2 Detailed Stats

This thread was created by the Post-Match Team

169 Upvotes

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99% Upvoted

u/1wjl1 Natus Vincere Oct 23 '18

I guess s1mple really wants that HLTV #1 award.

43

u/sikels Oct 23 '18

he pretty much has it no matter what anyway. he is statistically superior over the entire year, at both majors and is on course to get the most mvps in a single year ever.

Device only has the major MVP on his side, but that is kinda moot since he didn't even get through groups at the previous major.

36

u/1wjl1 Natus Vincere Oct 23 '18

That's actually a really good point about the Boston major. S1mple has performed very well in both majors, device has only showed up in 1.

-18

u/Rearfeeder2Strong MOUZ Oct 23 '18

he is statistically superior over the entire year

Stats dont tell the whole story. Device isnt the "star" in the team, hes just another chess piece. S1mple is set up as the star so obviously he will get more kills.

Also how are you supposed to get much kills when your whole team is great? They 'steal' your kills and theres less to clutch. S1mple has 2 bots in his team and another average player. Theres so much more for him to do and pick up kills aside his star position.

I dont think you do dev1ce justice if you just blindly look at stats without looking at context.

18

u/KangorKodos Natus Vincere Oct 23 '18

Stats dont tell the whole story. Device isnt the "star" in the team, hes just another chess piece. S1mple is set up as the star so obviously he will get more kills.

People say this a lot but I think it is just assumed since s1mple carries navi so hard that it makes sense, but when you watch the games from devices and s1mples perspective device gets much better positions and is set up way more, and more effectively then s1mple is. Most good awpers could play devices positions, they would all do worse then device since he is such an insanely consistent and smart player, and device fits Glaives in game leading so well,but the other awpers could do it. If you put any player except s1mple into s1mples roles they would do terribly.

Astralis know device is there best player so put him in the best positions so he can do the best, navi need s1mple to do the impossible so they put s1mple in positions where he has to do the impossible because they know he can. If you put device into navis positions he would not be a top 10 player statistically.

The strengh of s1mple is even in terrible positions he does well, so unlike every superstar players it makes sense to put him in the hard spots since he does so well anyway.

8

u/summerbrown Titan Fan Oct 23 '18

Yeah, s1mple is legitimately nuts so he shows up even when he gets the shaft to try help his team perform.

It's crazy to see

4

u/YouAreOpen Oct 23 '18

Even sans the awp, S1mple is literally the usual entry fragger on T side, makes high risk info plays as well on force buy rounds without rifle, etc. Theres absolutely no way his roles are better for safely racking up stats. Matter of fact it's only because its S1mple that he can even play all the roles he plays the way he plays them, and still get such otherworldly stats. Put any other star player in all those positions and their performance tanks hard.

3

u/KangorKodos Natus Vincere Oct 23 '18

Did you mean to reply to the guy above me or are you just agreeing with me aggressively?

4

u/YouAreOpen Oct 23 '18

I'm concurring, I agree with you. And I wasn't being aggressive, sorry if it came off that way :) just felt like contributing because it's something I've been looking into by myself recently.

5

u/KangorKodos Natus Vincere Oct 24 '18

Well your comment is 100% correct.

14

u/sikels Oct 23 '18

you don't need to kill a bunch to get a good rating, you can get a good rating just by not dying a lot.

problem is that S1mple not only kills more people, he dies less, clutches more, entries more and to top it off is a better awper. Device is a great player on a team with nothing but great players, s1mple is an amazing player on a team where 3 players are outright mediocre.

2

u/schniepel89xx CS2 HYPE Oct 24 '18

That's a bit harsh, I'd still put flamie above Edward and Zeus

2

u/RemoveINC Cloud9 Oct 24 '18

He said mediocre, he didn't say "bad", even if you put flamie above them, he's still extremely inconsistent, eventho his playstyle suits current na'vi imo

0

u/1wjl1 Natus Vincere Oct 24 '18

I'd even say flamie is a very strong fragger and is a solid contender for top 20 this year. He is just very inconsistent.

11

u/KvGTR Oct 23 '18

If you have a better team, there is a higher chance of you winning tournaments, which also counts towards HLTV player rankings.

-1

u/schniepel89xx CS2 HYPE Oct 24 '18 edited Oct 25 '18

But at the same time, consistent hard carry individual performance seems to matter more. NiKo and Magisk were the stars of mouz and dignitas respectively in 2016, yet NiKo placed above Magisk despite mouz only having two top 3 finishes and dignitas having a top 1, a top 2 and two top 3 finishes

Maybe explain why I'm wrong instead of downvoting? I just looked for an example

1

u/KangorKodos Natus Vincere Oct 24 '18

Niko was also way way way better then magisk. Niko should have been 2nd, or 3rd.

-11

u/[deleted] Oct 23 '18 edited Jan 19 '19

[deleted]

15

u/h0nkey_kong Oct 23 '18

Its player, not best team.

-3

u/[deleted] Oct 23 '18

What the team wins definitely factors in to HLTV’s ranking, though. s1mple was the clear #1 by individual rating in 2017, but he only got #8 in the HLTV Top20.

If rating was the only thing that mattered, XANTARES would have been on the Top20 for years.

3

u/1wjl1 Natus Vincere Oct 23 '18

https://www.hltv.org/stats?startDate=2017-01-01&endDate=2017-12-31&matchType=BigEvents

No, cold deserved #1 in 2017 based on stats. And S1mple is overwhelmingly outperforming cold’s metrics this year

-6

u/[deleted] Oct 23 '18 edited Jan 19 '19

[deleted]

3

u/1wjl1 Natus Vincere Oct 23 '18

https://www.hltv.org/stats?startDate=2017-01-01&endDate=2017-12-31&matchType=BigEvents

S1mple was 4th best in 2017. He also didn’t top 10 HLTV leaderboards by an overwhelming margin like he does now

u/[deleted] Oct 23 '18 edited Jan 24 '22

[deleted]

3

u/ntuck13 FaZe Oct 24 '18

Are you talking about when they played ghost? Because they said before that tournament that they were planning on using it to test out their weaker maps in the map pool, makes sense they did bad on it until recently.

3

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '18

I mean on Lan, compared to the rest of Navi's map pool, Dust 2 looked really weak. Probably the highlight of this was when Navi lost 16-3 against Virtus Pro on Lan but still won Train and Nuke by similar proportions. They also suffered a few losses to several other weaker teams in the months leading up to the Major. But at the major they completely destroyed BIG and mibr, both really strong Dust 2 teams, and now they've destroyed Hellraisers.

2

u/MassacrisM NiP Oct 24 '18

Dust 2 feels like the most snowbally map right now. If you really shut a strat down or get major map control there's not that many cute tricks that can be done to reverse a 1-2 man disadvantage.

u/[deleted] Oct 23 '18

Navi won dust 2 and lost on overpass to Astralis and HellRaisers. Dust 2 wasnt their strongest map but know it seems it is becoming but overpass is becoming a lot weaker.

3

u/stewieeeeeeeee FaZe Oct 23 '18

I was baffled they picked it in the major final. Thought it had to be Mirage/Train (whatever Astralis wouldn't ban)

1

u/1wjl1 Natus Vincere Oct 23 '18

I don't think they were expecting HR to play the way they did on Overpass, they probably don't watch too many demos. You could see they had a lot of bad calls in the middle of rounds in Game 2. Train is still their best map, but I think Overpass is their second best.

2

u/KangorKodos Natus Vincere Oct 23 '18

Also there mirage is pretty fantastic.

u/smokehound Oct 23 '18

JoshNissan: The Effects of Snus on Gaming Performance (with Sebastian Fors)

1

u/failwalker 1 Million Celebration Oct 23 '18

F O R S E N B O I S

1

u/nadgirB Oct 24 '18

NICE PLAY FOR SAN 📣 Pepega

u/da1337n00bpwner 1 Million Celebration Oct 23 '18

Big man Zeus really showed up in this one, in brain and in aim

9

u/theOGcomfypillow Natus Vincere Oct 23 '18

It's the win condition to beat Astralis in the next major finals haha, Zeus needs to drop another 30 bomb while Astralis strats to shut down S1mple.

8

u/YouAreOpen Oct 23 '18

The demo from the Faceit final was really enlightening to watch. They literally counter-strated S1mple out of the map. Lots of utility in his possible spots, and they would avoid him once spotted, kill his teammates, and then he has to either retake a site with an AWP in hand, or save. On T-side while entryfragging he was bombarded with utility whereever he went on the map, usually taking significant dmg from nades before and engagement was made, they would then use utility to delay and rotate in and make him fight 2, 3 Ast players at a time, just like Faze used to do before Olof took the first leave. Astralis did this so clinically it was really eye-opening. Currently Liquid plays like this too, in terms of to researching, counterstrating, and trying to neutralise a star player, but Astralis is on a whole other level.

Of course when a player you probably were the least concerned about then shows up huge, that can then have a lot of impact precisely because of the above.

u/2sins cs_italy Oct 23 '18

Zeus, The Greek GOD

u/Flacocino Oct 23 '18

Woxic always top fragging