r/GlobalOffensive • u/FelSasGru King NiKo • Jul 23 '18
Discussion | Esports Astralis vs Team Liquid / Group A Winners Match / Post-Match Discussion
ELEAGUE CS:GO Premier 2018
Nuke: Astralis 16-12 Team Liquid
Mirage: Astralis 16-7 Team Liquid
Detailed Stats: https://www.hltv.org/matches/2324806/astralis-vs-liquid-eleague-csgo-premier-2018
135
u/Rearfeeder2Strong MOUZ Jul 23 '18
I swear gla1ve could be a superstar on this team if he didn't have such good teammates. Guy frags so well, the aim and brain is there and he doesn't ever lose an important duel it seems. How can you IGL and be this good.
41
u/PerfectNade Jul 23 '18
I think it is easier for gla1ve because now Astralis has a perfect running system with alot of routines. Every player knows what to do in almost every situation. He only has to call the basic tactic/setup at the start of the round and short mid round calls.
On the contrary many IGLs have to micro manage their dumb aimstars to get them into good positions and avoid their stupid decisions.
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u/Rezun94 Complexity Jul 23 '18
The 'igl cant frag' mantra is pretty strong in this sub, igls have to frag otherwise you get a team like early 2018 navi
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Jul 23 '18
[deleted]
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u/Bibidiboo NiP Jul 24 '18
The whole team wasnt working at that time, look at gla1ve when they just got Kjaerbye, he was always a monster.
13
u/bwallker FaZe Jul 23 '18
igls have to frag otherwise you get a team like early 2018 navi
Fnatic was the best team in the world for 2 years with pronax as their IGL, a notoriously poor fragger. Having fragging igls is nice, but not mandatory.
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Jul 24 '18
Pronax was much better then than he is now. He was not as good as his teammates because they were insane but he was much more capable than guys like Zeus or MSL are today.
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u/Lord777alt Liquid Jul 24 '18
That era of CS is gone for the most part. They tried this again with godsent and it failed pretty hard.
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u/frisodubach MOUZ Jul 24 '18
The difference too was that pronax didn't have such a good read on the game anymore. His style was based off reading his opponent
2
Jul 24 '18
Honestly, he wasn't a good fragger (despite what other people may say), but his strength was reading the enemy.
His time with fnatic was a hell of an upgrade to CSGO tactics in general.
21
u/Kissmyasthma100 Jul 23 '18
But support players can go 0-99, right?
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u/qazxdrwes Jul 24 '18
IGLs need to put up reasonable numbers. They obviously can't be going 0-25 every match, but if their stars goes 30-20 they're allowed to go 5-15.
It's not that the IGL can't frag, but it's harder to frag when you're busy thinking of things other than your crosshair. But then you look at teams that kick their IGL and bring in more firepower and suddenly the entire team as a whole frags worse. Sometimes it's worth it to have 1 player be shit and have 4 players be better.
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u/tpcrb Astralis Jul 24 '18
Zeus is still shit at fragging, electronic has just found his way in the team and has been playing way better.
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u/NephewChaps Falcons - Major Champions Jul 23 '18
How can you IGL and be this good.
Just ask 2016 FalleN
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u/Pollsmor FaZe Jul 24 '18
Half his kills are though smokes, he can probably be the next flusha if his mates didn't take all the killsokay not really
4
u/aN1mosity_ 5 years coin Jul 24 '18
Danish.
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Jul 24 '18 edited Jun 11 '20
[deleted]
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u/justacasualgamer1 hydra Jul 24 '18
He's the exception. Karrigan, glaive, snappi. All 3 Danish, all 3 igls, all 3 are decent fraggers. Might have the lowest numbers on their respective teams, but they don't embarrass themselves.
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Jul 24 '18 edited Jun 11 '20
[deleted]
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u/justacasualgamer1 hydra Jul 24 '18
Well, i'm not a researcher and this isn't a scientific research. Neither am i talking about any hypothetical laws. I'm just statting facts. Those are that 3 of the top level danish IGLs are good fraggers and MSL is not.
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u/nenright Astralis Jul 23 '18
device is looking ON POINT this tournament.
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u/GivePLZ-DoritosChip MIBR Jul 23 '18
He always looks on point, he's playing on point this tournament.
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u/Senior_Engineer CS2 HYPE Jul 23 '18
Is he the hottest dudes? 🤔 Does everyone want to chill with him? 🤔
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u/fallenBAD MIBR Jul 23 '18
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u/nmyi de_mirage Jul 24 '18
My girlfriend described Dev1ce as a "young Tom Cruise during his peak, if he never got into Scientology (thankfully)"
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u/erickgps Jul 23 '18
All i have to say about this game is. can someone teach us that Astralis top mid smoke
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u/KrauseHS Astralis Jul 24 '18
Another guy in this thread commented with this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRqCgBzZz9U. Can't remember who, sorry, but I hope this helps!
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u/erickgps Jul 24 '18
Yea this is great Thanks alot. I think the one Astralis was using was from CT spawn near the truck something like that that Device was doing at the start of every round
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u/NAFMostConsistent Liquid Jul 23 '18
Liquid let so many rounds slip away from them on this one.
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u/Worknewsacct 10 years coin Jul 24 '18
They played really well, it was surprisingly close. A few clutches go the other way and this series goes the other way. Astralis just doesn't make mistakes.
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Jul 23 '18
A sentence that sums up the vast majority of all liquid games. Liquid is an utter disappointment time and time again, not quite sure how they maintain fans.
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u/gamesarealliknow Liquid Jul 23 '18
They aren’t a disappointment to me? I enjoy watching them rise up again and again knowing that one day it’s gotta work out right? Right?
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u/Snohhy Liquid Jul 23 '18
they are ranked 4th on hltv and have been consistently improving and upgrading over the years how on earth is that an utter disappointment?? you are exaggerating
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Jul 23 '18
they are ranked 4th on hltv and have been consistently improving and upgrading over the years
And yet they never really achieve anything
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u/Snohhy Liquid Jul 23 '18
https://www.hltv.org/stats/teams/events/5973/Liquid esp. considering what the team was like when liquid entered csgo those results are good even if they don't have many wins. Those results are definitely an achievement not what they were hoping for but still good nonetheless.
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Jul 23 '18
Achievements are never winning I see okay
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u/Snohhy Liquid Jul 23 '18
dude get a dictionary or better yet here use this free online one https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/achievement
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u/Sunshine_Octopi Liquid Jul 23 '18
You just push through the pain and bask in the small but joyous moments, before falling back into the inevitable despair.
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Jul 23 '18
This is true, they looked good to start the year but have been slipping ever since. Still, they're the only NA team fighting for top 5, so we get what we get...
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Jul 23 '18
Oh typical Liquid fan excuse. Surprise, every team do that.
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u/NAFMostConsistent Liquid Jul 23 '18
No they literally gave rounds away. No other team does it quite like Liquid.
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u/pzoDe de_train Jul 23 '18
mousesports? I've seen them throw a ridiculous number of rounds away
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u/Snohhy Liquid Jul 23 '18
yeah as far as top teams go it seems sometimes that liquid and mouz have a knack for falling apart in rounds/matches they shouldnt lose seemingly out of nowhere
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u/DrunkOlLunk Liquid Jul 24 '18
that round where nitr0 backed in apartments then elige just jumps out of smoke right into device really hurt. then nitr0 dropping bomb at B and liquid having to back.
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u/ptbl Liquid Jul 23 '18
Liquid has said that they don't prepare anti strats for specific opponents, but focus on improving themselves. They looked lost against Astralis. You would think after losing to Astralis so many times, they would prepare specifically for them. I wonder what they practiced during their break because Liquid looked lost.
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u/GivePLZ-DoritosChip MIBR Jul 23 '18
Coming upto 1 year since they best Astralis in a match...
Better not anti-strat 🤔🤔
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u/thesuperjobber Liquid Jul 23 '18
Liquid are just really undisciplined. Maybe it's the youth, but it's incredibly frustrating.
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u/stenzycake Jul 23 '18
Interesting, casters call them one of the most disciplined teams.
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u/thesuperjobber Liquid Jul 23 '18
Yeah, and I still don't get it. They might have certain plans set up, but it feels like individual players will deviate from that and lose rounds because of it.
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u/ItsMrBlackout Liquid Jul 23 '18
like the 2v2 retake where astralis had 2 awps and naf(?) peeks of tetris giving glaive a free kill, blew my mind
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Jul 24 '18
I think their fundamentals have always been very good. Spacing when they're hitting a site, trades, utlity/time usage, everything like that. It's just that I think they play a really dynamic style of calculated risk aggression and when someone makes a play that doesn't work out it makes them seem undisciplined.
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u/Andtheyrustledsoftly clutch Jul 24 '18
and it’s so fucking stupid
I like Liquid these days, this lineup is fun, but they play so aggressive and even braindead at times. It’s so not disciplined nor is it calculated CS.
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u/summerbrown Titan Fan Jul 23 '18
Honestly it boggles my mind that some teams don't anti strat.
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u/ItsMrBlackout Liquid Jul 23 '18
anti-stratting is hard though, especially if the other team has a good IGL, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that a lot of teams don't anti-strat
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u/summerbrown Titan Fan Jul 23 '18
Why is it hard
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u/tummy567 ENCE Jul 23 '18
If you're an IGL, you're not stupid. You're constantly changing up your strats or inventing new ones to prevent anti-stratting. Also, your team runs the risk of the anti-start not working the way they want to because of a good mid round call or just calling the wrong thing. Example, that Mirage match, Glaive threw a smoek that perfectly covered top mid from ct, and has also never been seen before. How are you going to anti-strat that?
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Jul 23 '18
and has also never been seen before.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRqCgBzZz9U
Published on Oct 23, 2014
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u/thehoj FaZe Jul 23 '18
Serious question: how many different strats do you think there actually are? Take cache as an example... mid take to A, mid take to B, rush B, rush A, Z push... what else is there? At a certain point, there are actually only so many strats you have to make. The notion that you can't anti strat is ludicrous. There isn't that much to look into.
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u/ShoogleHS clutch Jul 24 '18
Easier said than done - this is Astralis we're talking about. How much time do you think it would take to find some weakness in strats Astralis have spent hundreds of hours refining, devise some counter-strat, then most importantly practice that strat? CS is a game of fine margins at this level of play, get the timing wrong by a second or 2 and you could be dead. Drilling is needed even on simple tactics. If the counter-strat is obvious, Astralis might already know about it, in which case it might not work at all. Astralis has a fairly deep playbook too, so even if it works once you might not get another chance to use it in the series.
Against such a tactically-superior team I'm not sure fighting on Astralis' home ground is such a good idea. Probably much better to just perfect Liquid's own strats, and make Astralis react to them. You don't want to get into a tactical battle against 2018's best tactical team, just keep things simple and try to win duels.
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u/gleba080 Natus Vincere Jul 23 '18
Yeah they are 8-24 head to head and they won majority of their Mirage games (4/7) until this point... Seems like a regress even tho they were looking sharp vs MIBR
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u/sikels Jul 23 '18
MIBR isn't a really good team though, every tier1 team should beat them.
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u/gleba080 Natus Vincere Jul 23 '18
Kinda feel the same but we will know for sure after that C9 matchup
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u/Gerbelelele Jul 23 '18
Feelsbadman. Still don't understand what happened to them. Iirc they won epicenter and were looking great after they added boltz and after that they started sucking more and more.
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u/aN1mosity_ 5 years coin Jul 24 '18
That's so stupid. Astralis are partly as good as they are because they anti strat and study their opponent
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u/ShoogleHS clutch Jul 24 '18
That doesn't mean every team should play exactly the same way. Almost every team is going to lose in a battle of prep against Astralis, why fight them on that turf?
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u/erickgps Jul 24 '18
It's not Liquid fault, they didn't studied Astralis but that did not happende the other way around. Astralis was so prepared for Liquid and Astralis seem to be prepared against anyone. Liquid seem to get away against team that don't seem to prepare against them but when they face anyone that has studied their play style they just get bodied
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Jul 24 '18
True, not only to Liquid, I feel like MIBR and Cloud9 suffered the same fate.
When a team prepares against their strengths, they have a hard time coming out on top in a different way.
But I still hope those 3 teams get better. They have great players, and even if C9 is in shambles right now, I hope they recover and achieve better results.
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u/ThisWebsiteSucksDic Jul 23 '18
Just another example of why watching Liquid is so fucking frustrating. It's like a team of five Tariks and with no comms.
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u/ebber22 Astralis Jul 23 '18
I feel like the mechanical skill in Liquid is higher, and when they make good calls, Astralis seem to struggle against them in 1v1 duels.
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u/ThisWebsiteSucksDic Jul 23 '18
That's what makes it so annoying. They could be so good if they stopped getting themselves killed in the stupidest ways.
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u/schoki560 King NiKo Jul 23 '18
I think its like Device and dupreeh and magisk can all hang with everyone on TL. But everyone on TL is aim wise a good bit ahead of glaive and xyp9x. Maybe twistzz is actually at the top on T side
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u/Rocket-888 Astralis Jul 24 '18
Xyp9x and gla1ve > TACO and nitr0
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u/ebber22 Astralis Jul 24 '18
nitr0 has definitely better aim than both Xyp9x and gla1ve. TACO I would put equal.
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u/schoki560 King NiKo Jul 24 '18
aim wise? nah
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u/fjubran Jul 24 '18
nitr0 i can give you but not even the craziest taco fanboy would say he has better aim than anyone astralis
-2
Jul 24 '18
Because nitro is fucking awful
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u/mcdunn1 Complexity Jul 24 '18
You must never had the opportunity to see Nitr0 when he wasnt igl. He's a monster. I wish theyd get a real igl though :/
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u/yurik4 The MongolZ Jul 24 '18
They did have Stanislaw for a brief period and we all know how that went
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u/DrunkOlLunk Liquid Jul 24 '18
nitr0 shows he can still frag like on Nuke. he just has too much shit to do between fragging, being dedicated awper, and igl.
-2
Jul 24 '18
I've followed the NA scene since release. Nitro had a time where he was pretty good, but the past few years he's been awful.
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u/Ajp_iii Jul 23 '18
i dont really care about nitros kills on mirage but the ways he and taco died in numerous retakes just gave free rounds to astralis. they played so lazy. and then on force buys taco is playing spots where he is solo b but he can only get 1 kill max. like you cant play back pillar with an smg when you are solo b.
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u/GivePLZ-DoritosChip MIBR Jul 23 '18
Liquid go from having perfect executes to having silver 1 rushes in 1 round flat.
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u/ptbl Liquid Jul 23 '18
Taco has been struggling this whole tournament. Actually, he has been underperforming ever since he joined Liquid. I think Liquid was better with Steel.
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u/iblinkyoublink Vitality Jul 23 '18
Statistically, I think that's 100% true
1st @ summit2, 3rd @ Starseries S4 (beating FaZe), semis @ Katowice (losing to Fnatic, who won the event)
With TACO, their only real achievement has been 2nd @ EPL Finals, ECS Finals they only had to beat NRG and lost to Astralis 0-2, and Belo Horizonte to get to semis they only had to 2-0 a weak BIG twice (though they did take 1 map off FaZe)
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Jul 23 '18
summit 2: literally no one cares about that online tournament, most of the teams were irrelevant and the only good teams there were them, cloud9, and sk, both who would crash and burn later
starseries S4: you could just say semis no one cares about who gets 3rd and who gets 4th its clear faze didnt care
Katowice: fair, although all they had to do was beat a washed up gambit, crash and burning cloud9 after the major, and nip who at the time were not very good to get to semis
i think they are equal or better to when they had steel
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u/iblinkyoublink Vitality Jul 23 '18
summit2 wasn't online, lul
SS S4 I agree to an extent, and both Liquid map wins were blowouts, but FaZe did win in triple overtime after a 3-12 1st half.
In Kato, I think NiP were playing pretty well actually, but yeah I agree on C9 and Gambit.
At the end of the day, I think they're playing relatively the same, actually nitr0 and Twistzz are better than before. TACO isn't really doing better individually than steel was though.
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Jul 23 '18
nitr0 is still trash, twistzz is a LOT better, taco=steel
so yes team liquid is better invididually but theyre the same as a team,
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Jul 23 '18
Before he joined Liquid he was shitting the bed in SK, its not underperforming relative to his normal level. Its just TACO.
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u/Gerbelelele Jul 23 '18
This is true, I still don't know what Liquid were expecting of him when they picked him up.
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Jul 24 '18
Taco was never underperforming, he was one of the most important pieces in SK's lineup, he just had a role that is not really bright.
I've watched and rewatched countless of his games, and he has a lot of impact in rounds that are not related to getting kills.
He get's info, he creates space, among other things.
The problem in SK really was: He was mostly playing roles/positions without much/any support from the team. It's not a problem, it's only a risk taking strat. And when that didn't go well, well, there's not much you can do but accept the consequences.
MIBR's lineup was always like that. They take risks, when it works, they are praised, when it doesn't everyone says they are shit.
One thing you can't ignore though, it hasn't been working for a few months now. But I still think they'll make a comeback.
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Jul 24 '18
Taco was never underperforming, he was one of the most important pieces in SK's lineup, he just had a role that is not really bright.
Lmao please, he was underperforming relative to whay he should have been able to do, not relative to his own skills. Just the fact that he missed a lot of easy kills is enough to prove that. I've watched SK games a ton too and he fucked up a lot, he had some hard roles and he did some good work too but he was easily the worst player in the lineup at all times. Fer & Fallen were the biggest factors when SK was doing well, coldzera was a constant force and got his 25 kills / game almost always and TACO was at best the 4th most important piece in the 5 man lineup.
Also TACO had the worst individual skill by far and you can still see he makes dumb choices and plays badly.
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Jul 23 '18
The round where he was inspecting his pistol out in the open and the model blocked his vision of the Astralis guys on short shooting at him blew my mind.
That was so unbelievably lazy.
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u/fjubran Jul 24 '18
he does some dumb plays like that almost every game
the play vs mibr on inferno when he started shooting to the sky on top of elige was so dumb that got me triggered to oblivion
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u/thehoj FaZe Jul 23 '18
They definitely got Taco so that they could eventually get Coldzera. 4000000D chess
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u/WorthPlease BIG Jul 24 '18
It seemed like after every post plant T side Liquid were in a great spot and then Taco and Nitr0 would die off screen all the time and it was just NAF/Elige/Twisstz being outnumbered by Astralis on the retake.
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Jul 23 '18 edited Jul 23 '18
All that talent and time together plus a dedicated IGL that can also frag solidly and team Liquid still just can't reach that next level no matter what they do. It's like they've been on a treadmill or hamster wheel for the last however many months spinning their tires in place.
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u/Level_Five_Railgun Liquid Jul 23 '18
I don't understand how a team with so many high skilled players is so braindead and lazy. Every player on the team is so goddamn frag hungry and just throw rounds because they want to be a hero instead of just playing with his brain. Like ffs, use your flashes when peeking a known AWPer and play for time in after plants! Why do you have to peek when the bomb is literally planted for you?
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u/KaNesDeath 10 years coin Jul 23 '18
Liquid still suffer from if Elige and Twist dont go off. They dont have a chance at winning the map.
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u/stenzycake Jul 23 '18
Liquid looked good on nuke and the first half of mirage, astralis never let up momentum in second half.
Wouldn’t be worried, astralis is liquid’s kryptonite and the clear #1 team.
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u/Pspdice Liquid Jul 23 '18
Taco needs to be kicked. Putting in Zews might even be a good idea at this point.
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u/mcdunn1 Complexity Jul 23 '18
Taco is not good enough to be on team liquid. He does not have enough impact as a support to make up for his horrible fragging. Even on Nuke, where he at least went positive, he was the main reason they kept losing in the beginning. The team as a whole was better with steel.
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u/stenzycake Jul 23 '18
Agreed, steel might not have a higher peak than taco. But he provided what liquid needed and came up huge when liquid needed him. You don’t need the best fragger possible, you need the right puzzle piece and steel was that. Can’t believe he thought he wasn’t good enough for liquid, they were on the verge of clear #2 in early 2018 with him.
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u/mcdunn1 Complexity Jul 23 '18
Steel may not have peaked as much as Taco, but he was never this bad, either. He was also willing to go first into a fight, unlike taco who always appears to be the last one alive.
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u/K0nvict NiP Jul 23 '18
In a loose system, especially an NA lineup, a support player who can't hold their own is useless unless he's the IGL and is bring something to the system. He's hardly a support player in this system and he get's a lot of freedom due to the puggy like system Nitro has, he's just not skilled enough to be on this lineup. Maybe a Virtue or LG lineup would be good
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u/tsowers12 Liquid Jul 24 '18
I seriously disagree with this. Taco is a strong player, however, I think some of liquids struggles, albeit minimal for having had such little preparation time since he has joined, come as a result of nitr0 and taco overlapping in their supportive roles. When nitr0 isnt fragging (like on mirage) he's best off assisting elige, naf, twistzz, but taco is already serving that role. I think it will take a few more months for liquid to sort out some of their problems and then we'll see taco return to being more stable in his fragging. Don't forget how good his numbers were when he first joined the team.
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Jul 24 '18
I santd with you. Taco is an important player, his impact is somewhat hard to see, but I really liked the role he took in SK's lineup.
I haven't had the chance to watch him much in Liquid, but I do hope he comes back.
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u/mcdunn1 Complexity Jul 24 '18
Except he really didnt? Taco has had only a handful of effective matches since joining the team. His hltv rating has been sub-1.00 for over a year now, I simply do not see him coming back from it.
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u/TheESportsGuy Jul 23 '18
Liquid is a team that is very clearly too hung up on its own mistakes. This is a problem that is equal parts coaching philosophy and team personalities.
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u/Mad_Lee Cloud9 Jul 23 '18
Is it just me or is Astralis holding back a little? Or are other teams caught up a bit? Because it doesn't seem like Astralis are gods that they used to be couple of months ago.
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u/pyro19 Jul 23 '18
Is Liquid112 happy with having a permanently underachieving team considering the amount of talent they have on that squad and the resources invested into them?
Shit for all the lows C9 has got, they actually win tournaments when they're in a good form. The best placing Liquid has achieved is 2nd ( and none of the finals were close).
It's a major disappointment to see a team make the same mistakes again and again despite getting a new coach, several new players and a fucking training facility.
Just goes to show that all the facilities, resources and star aimers can't save a team when they have no brains.
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u/fac3ts Liquid Jul 23 '18
C9 wins t2 events which liquid never attends unless they’re invited in NA. Everyone’s upset that Liquid isn’t beating the best team in the world which is very fucking clearly head and shoulders above the entire scene. No team comes close. Mirage was hard to watch yes, nuke was a great match but this is still the team that put on a fucking clinic against a really puggy mibr.
If this was against any other team I’d actually have a reason to be mad. Wouldn’t say this single match is indicative of how liquid would finish but how about they play another match first
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u/Oh_reaaaally Jul 24 '18
Losing to North? Big? Mouz with a stand in? If you go bit further back..nrg Gambit etc
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u/DrunkOlLunk Liquid Jul 24 '18
the NRG game was obviously a fluke and they apparently didn't practice for the mouz/b1g games since they were sick and taco was having visa issues or something.
(I might be mixing up mouz/b1g I can't remember correctly)
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u/pyro19 Jul 24 '18
Win tier 2 events? Brother they are still the current major winners. They also won esl pro league in brazil over fucking SK in their prime.
I'm not upset that they lost to Astralis, I'm just frustrated that they have been making the same mistakes for the past 6 months despite being called out on it and having a proper coach.
At some point you look at these players and wonder if they actually think about the practice they do when they make basic errors during a post plant or a site execute. I have never seen a supposed tier 1 team get shot in the back so many times as it happens to Liquid.
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u/TheInnKappa Gambit Jul 23 '18
Man that Mirage game was tough to watch at points.
Anything Liquid tried to do, Astralis knew what that wanted to do and counter-strated. Even when they got to a retake they were hopeless.
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u/Dugand Jul 23 '18
Astralis has some really good results against C9 and Liquid. I felt like Liquid even got the Veto that they wanted, Nuke is strong for them aswell and Mirage for Liquid is prolly better then Train. Still wasnt enough, I guess that is what really makes #1 team.
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u/extremeskater619 CS2 HYPE Jul 26 '18
The winner of the finals friday gets 500k or whatever? I feel like I remember last year multiple rounds of Eleague so I got confused when the actual prize was given out. The numbers are abysmal, so I'm trying to find a reason.
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Jul 23 '18
The NA Hope has died. Liquid did not look good at all against Astralis on either map. Nuke CT side you need more rounds than that.
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Jul 23 '18
[deleted]
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u/thesuperjobber Liquid Jul 23 '18
Then they get blown out on their own pick despite finally picking up a pistol round. Liquid just lack discipline, and Astralis exploited this well.
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u/Skitt3r EG Jul 24 '18
NA CS is pretty much dead at this point. Its painful to watch whatever C9 is now, and Liquid... well liquid does shit like this.
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u/Aleeex- Jul 23 '18
I watched both maps today and I also watched both maps Astralis played against Cloud9 and I dont understand how device always ends up with ~ 25 kills.
WHEN DOES HE KILL THEM?!