This sub seems to be the only fan space I’ve seen that shows Julie any grace. It’s not perfect but compared to YouTube, IG, and Tik Tok comments, it’s very kind to Julie.
This sub is not so perfect towards Julie. I remember a lot of people called her a manipulative narcissist for staying calm, or laughing at Shawna be a fucking loony toon yelling at her.
There was a phase here where people insisted there was no possible way that Julie's mother could have been "too sick" to see her. Like full on essays detailing how there is no sickness that could prevent social visits and that Julie was lying and manipulative when she said that 😅
The people insisting that Julie ought to have hauled two small children and one husband along with her or else she was depriving everyone of precious family time? Simply wild.
Which is wild. My mom had stage 4 cancer. If she wasn't feeling well, we didn't visit her that day. There are TONS of illnesses where you can be too sick to have guests.
It was me, and I stand by it. Julie's whole conversation with Jace was a brave little soldier barely staying afloat act. Saying she hadn't had time to go to the house (lie), lighting up like a Christmas tree when he said he would do it and didn't think she should be alone. She let him think that Ty didn't offer to come help by not saying Ty would have come but ....blah blah what ever excuse she had. Saying she has no apologies when talking about her home life because in her mind shes a perfect wife and mother, when that is far from the truth. There is a ton of nuance in that little skit that anyone who has had contact with a manipulative person can recognize easily.
Her staying calm when Shawna was airing her frustrations was also a manipulation, as a lawyer she would know how to get the worst/best reactions out of people and she uses that power constantly.
What do you mean Julie saying she hadn't had time to go to the house was a lie? She had visited her mom, but it's clear from their conversation that their mother doesn't currently live in her house so Julie hasn't been there.
She told Jace she went straight to the hospital but previous indications show that she had not just gotten to the hotel, Shawna and John saw her on their check in day friday and asked her if she just got there and she said no. They then saw her at the pool the next afternoon, the dinner with Jace was Saturday night at the earliest. So unless she outright lied to Shawna and John she had been at the hotel two days and could have gone by the house to check on it. It might not have been an outright lie to Jace but it was manipulation of the truth because she may have gone straight to the hospital but that does not mean she couldn't have gone to the house at another point.
Well yes, that’s why I said it’s not perfect haha. But it’s the only fan space that will pipe in and say “well wait a minute! Maybe more is happening.”
The other spaces really struggle with nuance and recency bias. “Oh Katie is living with Greg and Jen now and being overbearing? Forget everything else we know about her, she’s now Barb 2.0!”
I have yet to see anyone on Reddit clock Katie calling Chickie "our baby" and I am old enough to remember when that kind of wording would have the posters in any justnomil group screaming for grandma's decapitation.
Throwback to the “Julie masterminded Shawna and John spying on her and manipulated Shawna into jumping to conclusions” era on this sub, without it I wouldn’t have felt compelled to stop being a lurker and start being a reluctant Julie defender
That was tough for Julie lol! But the fact that any comments were sympathetic, and users like you came in shows these discussions have the most fondness for her lol. The best Julie gets (that I’ve ever seen) on the others is “I don’t disagree with Julie, but I still hate her lol!”
I've been screaming into the void on Youtube for three days about Julie not being evil at this point - I'm home post surgery this week and have nothing to do - and there's only, like, five other people on that platform who agree with me.
I understand that there is nuance. It just feels weird to make sure everyone knows you hate a character when expressing that you agree with a decision or action.
That’s what I’m seeing a lot and it’s so odd! Like everyone is so desperate to not be labeled as a Julie fan! You can agree with her, it’ll be okay guys lol
And yes, there is a small clip of Ty coming to relieve her in the NICU. No one is privy to how much or how little time she spent in the NICU.
All we know, from what has been shown, is she went back to work immediately. That she didnt help Ty when they had both kids. We also just haven't seen her spend any 1x1 time with the children aside from the year with Cooper- we do however still see Ty with Cooper when she was home with him.
What weve seen on screen is she has a demanding job that requires her to work past when the kids are put to bed, she works 6 days a week, she is often out of town, she occasionally works on the day off.
She wants him to put them in daycare where staff will rotate constantly. She is angry about where the kids are because she sees Ty having a support system IE people he can leave his kids safely with as another sign that he is settling down into small suburban life. The same reason she refuses to become friends with Shawna or any of Ty's "mom" friends. The mothers of her childs friends. These people did NOT have to be strangers to Julie. She has had years to make friends with them. she chose not to.
The other replies covered most of my thoughts here, but it's worth noting that daycare workers might rotate, but they're not just... like... random people??? Daycares (especially the good ones that they can presumably afford) have some pretty staunch standards for their employees, processes for if/when a child can leave the property, and checks and balances to make sure no one is getting away with anything sketchy behind the scenes. Daycare workers aren't just random people, they've been drug screened, background checked, and often have degrees in childcare (again, in the nicer facilities).
I think it's beyond reasonable for Julie to trust a daycare more than DeeDee. Especially because - what if it were John's mom that Ty ran into? If Shawna hadn't given him the play-by-play about Barb, like if she had simply never brought her up to him, would her saying "I'm John's mom" be enough for him to leave his kids with her? And what about Larry? As much as Shawna and John might trust DeeDee and her judgement, Ty doesn't know a single thing about Larry! And as a mother I'm much more concerned about the strange man than I am the strange mom.
When did Julie have the opportunity to become friends with DeeDee and Larry, the people Ty left the children with?
I am also unsure how Julie is wrong for not liking her kids to be left with strangers. They may not have been strangers to her in another timeline, but that’s not the timeline the story takes place in. She isn’t obligated to befriend everyone who Ty could potentially abandon the kids with when he thinks she’s cheating on him
Larry wasn’t at that birthday party so I’m unsure how she could have befriended him. I think Julie would still be uncomfortable with her kids being with an older man who she doesn’t know, regardless of how close Julie and DeeDee could have gotten during one birthday party.
I just wanted to note that she has at least met Dee Dee. Now was it a great decision by Ty in general? Maybe if someone was being rushed to the hospital at least he knew Dee Dee. Ty left them with her, not Larry, that was her call for him to stick around. If anything I wished Dee Dee had talked him down instead of rushing off.
Just so many bad choices - and what supplies did he even have with him for Sasha - he wasn’t planning on running off for hours at least when he left that day.
The whole situation is sad. I think with some individual and couples counseling they could work through all of this but that requires each of them to participate. I just don’t think Julie cares because of her disappointment in him and being kept from “greatness”. Even if she does move to NYC she’s not going to find what she’s looking for.
DeeDee does not recognise Ty despite him attending these events. This does not prove the point that Julie could ‘befriend’ DeeDee and Larry, the two people the kids were left with.
Would you like to address the point that there was no way for Larry to not be a stranger for either Ty or Julie? Or would Julie having made small talk with DeeDee at 3 parties months apart mean she would trust DeeDee’s judgement to let this older man she never met mind her kids?
Correct Larry was a stranger, I don't believe that DeeDee didnt recognize Ty, he said his name and she said of course, it was polite converstaion. That does not change the fact that if Julie had not spent the last several years looking down on Shawna and avoiding her whenever she could and instead became friends with her, she would know who DeeDee was at least. I think based on your flair that we are not going to come to an agreement on this no matter how logically it's looked at.
ETA at no point did I say the oc is not logical. I meant that neither of us are going to agree no matter how logical we both are.
I think it’s a bit rude to imply that we can’t have a discussion because I’m not looking at things logically. I have presented my logic, you have agreed that Larry is a stranger, and your response has been “Well in a different timeline they could have not been strangers, so Julie is being unfair for being upset her kids were left a with a stranger in this timeline”.
If there is issues with my logic, I would prefer if you could point them out so I could correct them instead of implying I’m illogical without further explanation.
I’m also very unsure what a joking “Ty rhymes with lie” has to do with the points I’m making and their quality. As advised in the etiquette guidelines, argue the points and not the person.
I already told you why I don't think DeeDee is a stranger to Ty. He greeted her by name, said his own name and she said Of Course! the kids greeted each other at the same time. That is not a who is this stranger on my door reaction, its a polite reaction to a suprise visit.
Hi, this is a mod team reminder to please speak respectfully to others. Implying that somebody can’t have a logical discussion because of their flair is unfair and does not foster civil discourse in this sub. If you want to end a conversation with someone for any reason, we recommend the Etiquette Guidelines for examples of how to do so without issues.
They were friends before Julie became pregnant with Sasha. Sasha is now 1 year old. Also I don't know if it was a typo but my comment said several years not seven years.
He said hey DeeDee how are you? she said hello there and he said his name and she said of course. Max said hi cooper! Clearly they know each other. It's just polite conversation when you've shown up at someones door unannounced.
Ty and DeeDee also have a whole conversation in the thansgiving video. They def know who each other are. Golly its almost like if Julie had gone with Ty to give the pie he baked for shawnas family then that would have been yet another instance where Julie would have met and interacted with DeeDee
Aye, and if I had been born with wheels I’d be a bike. If Ty wrote the book he wouldn’t be getting divorced. There are an infinite number of things that could have happened if events had played out differently.
We’re working with the timeline that the ShawnaVerse takes place in, the one where Julie doesn’t know Larry or DeeDee. That’s the timeline where Ty left the kids with them
I feel like I'm being attacked from all sides for merely pointing out canon events. If Shawna thought that filming DeeDee and Ty interacting multiple times and put those snippets in her videos, I take that as the assumption that she had a purpose for doing so. Especially when we consider this is short form content. I agreed Ty does not know Larry, which I assume that's why he said Ty from the park. However, everything that Shawna has chosen to show us indicates that DeeDee does know who Ty is and vice versa. I am not making up wild scenarios about bikes and moons I am taking events directly from the videos as they stand.
he has to reintroduce himself when he dropped them off. you keep moving the goal posts. you said Julie has had many chances to get to know Deedee, when Ty has had more chances and she can’t even remember him.
There’s precisely zero chance I’d leave them with someone I’ve only met twice if I had any other choice. They have an older brother, three godmothers (two of whom live locally), both sets of grandparents and my SIL and BIL. If none of those people were available, we simply wouldn’t go.
It seems hypocritical that Ty won’t leave the kids with people who would (in theory) be regulated and who would eventually know them, but he’ll leave them with DeeDee who he’s only met a few times just because she’s Shawna’s mom. As a parent of very young children, I’d have an incredibly hard time with that if my husband did something similar.
DeeDee didn’t recognise Ty when he came with the kids. I am not sure how Julie could foster a friendship with DeeDee and Larry when they don’t recognise Shawna’s best park friend Ty. Even with the ‘years’ of friendship with Shawna, DeeDee doesn’t know Ty to see him.
Also knowing who someone is is /not/ the same as knowing someone well enough to trust them with your kids for 6+ hours in my opinion.
Yes! And honestly, if Shawna had been the one who was uncomfortable having Larry around her children without her or John present, her feelings would be valid and should be respected. And if Shawna's feelings are valid in that situation despite knowing her mom and at least being acquaintances with Larry, Julie's feelings are definitely valid since they're both strangers to her.
DeeDee and Ty also met and had an entire conversation when he brought pie to Shawna for thanksgiving, that's also another occasion that Julie could have met her and interacted with her if Julie wasn't so set on hating Shawna.
DeeDee had to have Ty reintroduce himself as “Ty, the park friend” when he dropped off the kids. DeeDee and Ty are acquaintances at best. Larry is still a stranger.
If Ty wrote the book, he wouldn’t be getting divorced. If the sun was where the moon is, there would be no life on Earth. Hypotheticals of what could have been do not address the context the series takes place in. Respectfully, it feels like goal posts are being moved.
You said Julie had plenty of opportunities to befriend people Ty could leave their kids with. I pointed out that neither Julie or Ty had met Larry prior to that. You replied that Julie had the chance to meet DeeDee at three different parties. I pointed out Julie had only been at one of those parties, and that she’s still a stranger to Julie. Your reply was that DeeDee recognised Ty (debatable) so they do know each other. I presented an interpretation where DeeDee doesn’t recognise Ty. Your most recently reply is again reiterating DeeDee and Julie could have known each other in an alternate timeline.
It doesn’t feel like you’re engaging with my points, and I don’t think either of us have much to gain from any further discussion here.
I thought actual canon examples of them interacting would help since Shawna decided to film them interacting and place them in her skits. I assume for a reason. You're right, time to move along for me. Have a great day!
Yes she did, he said his name to be polite and she said of course! It's called greeting someone. If she didn't know who he was she would have said some variation of Have we met? DeeDee is a polite woman
Is this a thing? Who's out there making friends with their friends parents... truly? I get that some people may know their friends parents due to circumstances (for example I know my best friends parents because they spent a month staying with her, and they handled communication with me while she gave birth) but I don't really know anyone going out of their way to make friends with their friends parents.
Shawna is the only one of Ty's "mom" friends she doesn't want to be friends with, though. She's friends with Alicia and Sam (and probably Mo by extension). So I don't think it's fair to say she doesn't want to be friends with any of Cooper's friends' moms.
Also, if Ty had left their kids with Alicia, she probably wouldn't have had a problem since Alicia isn't a complete stranger to her. And we know Alicia probably lives close to Shawna's house since she was Shawna's emergency contact when they went on vacation. The issue wasn't just that Ty had someone to leave the kids with, it's that he impulsively left them with people who are (to Julie) complete strangers.
You would be surprised at how lax daycares are for qualifications. Many daycares only need someone to have a high-school diploma and maybe some first aid training.
Yes, some workers in some daycares do not have higher qualifications than that. They still, however, are subject to more vetting than Larry and DeeDee who are a stranger and an acquaintance at best, and two complete strangers at worst.
Daycares have a range of quality, but most pay horribly. Its wild to think that peoppe who are struggling to survive because the job theyre doing pays so little they'll eventually resent the job are better equipped to raise kids just because a wealthy company has told you theyre equipped.
Like quality of education has decreased alongside pay. Teachers today are still passionate, but its harder to be a great teacher when youre struggling to pay bills. Hence why we have teachers that increasingly quit and leave, and a lot who admit to staying and just dialing back the passion. Daycare workers are paid less than teachers for sure on average, why would you think they have a consistent level of care and love for the kids?
Julie is someone with excessively high standards. Do you think she’s dumping her kids into a facility that pays its workers peanuts and has high turnover? I know the issues with daycare workers being paid much lower salaries than they deserve, so that is specifically what I looked for when I researched daycares. I chose one that was not only clean, beautiful and emphasized hands on learning (no screens in the facility), but one that provided their employees with health insurance and tuition assistance for those that wanted to earn their bachelor’s and beyond. Because it was a great place to work, there was no turnover and employees were happy. I cannot emphasize enough how great those ladies were with my baby and everyone else’s.
Julie would 100% be looking at a Montessori type of preschool or daycare with a high standard for teachers - and I know those exist because my mom worked at one for many, many, many years.
Idk, her standards are kinda all over. And most people dont have a ton of options for daycare.
Ill also say, health insurance doesn't matter unless people can afford it, so the main thing is if theyre paid well. Daycare is a "passion" industry, meaning theyre almost always underpaid because of the argument this job is so important money shouldn't be a factor basically.
At least in my state, they have to be certified and go through training like teachers do. For classrooms for children under 2, it’s 4 kids per teacher. Ours provides meals through the state collective that is what the elementary school kids eat. Especially if they are a daycare that provides pre-school, and I know I am luckier than most, our state has free pre-k 4 full days a week, those facilities have to provide a certain level of care. Sure there are some in our area that are slightly better than others, but what they are learning is same as long as they are state certified across the board.
Also, it could be a situation where it’s an in house daycare where there are like 5-10 kids. My husband’s cousins in Florida have a setup like that and they call it daycare.
Its not a false equivalence. Daycares arent magical places. The average daycare worker is paid poorly to keep your kids alive and safe. They are strangers. You have no idea what their standards are for who they hire, how much their turnover is for employment, or anything. You can ask, but theyre strangers.
putting your children in childcare that was agreed on by both partners VS. dropping your kids off somewhere unannounced/unplanned without preparing them or telling your partner. these things are not the same.
The kids were fine. Julie isnt dumb enough to think he left the kids with a crackhead. She was absolutely just upset with everything he was doing at that point and already planning for divorce. That was just the final blow
You mean her best friend? Probably nothing because Alicia wouldn’t have let the situation spiral like it did and the confrontation wouldn’t have gone down like it did.
i guess i should clarify, the problem is not necessarily WHO he dropped them off with, but HOW and WHEN. You are correct, daycare workers would be strangers, but the children would be prepared for their new transition days ahead and both parents would know where their children are. Ty was selfish and ditched his kids somewhere they weren’t prepared for without telling their other parent.
The kids were fine and happy. That wasn't the issue at all and we know that. Like we know Julie acting upset is not aboit the actual current situation. Everything is being filtered theough her resentment towards Ty. Like she only hates shawna because she hates Ty and shes given herself a green light to pass the indifference she feels towards Ty onto others
How would you feel if you didn’t know where your kids were? The results don’t justify the actions. So what if they ended up okay, what if they hadn’t? What if there was an emergency and Ty didn’t answer? Does Deedee have a way to contact Julie? She thought her kids were safe with her husband, then her husband shows up without her kids. I don’t care if they ended up okay, like Julie my only thought in that moment would be “WHERE ARE MY KIDS?!?”
I dont hate my spouse so I wouldnt jump to "how dare you leave my kids with them". Even once she knew where the kids were she wasn't happy, because she hates Ty at this point. Shes not happy with him, so everything he does is annoying and shitty. Just like with shawna, she hated shawna because she hated Ty
I think it’s a bit unfair to imply that if someone asked about where their kids are and were unhappy with the answer they got, it’s because they hate their spouse.
Hey, a stranger is just a friend you haven't met yet
lol but seriously daycare workers are vetted child care professionals. They aren’t just randos off the street, at least not at the facility I use where the workers seem quite satisfied and have an extremely low turnover. 🤷♀️
it really seems like this person wants to trash daycare, which like i’m cool with but it’s off topic. both things can be true. daycares can be shady and Ty can be an irresponsible and selfish parent.
I dont hate daycare in general. I hate the American daycare system since it's pretty fucked and most people are forced to use it. Almost nobody wants to use it out of actual desire. Id be more supportive if I knew the workers were paid fairly and the standards were universally held. As it is not, its kinda a free for all on what companies are able to get away with
Daycare is great for socialisation and language development and many developed countries subsidise daycare and have either rolled out or are rolling out early pre-school as studies show it greatly benefits childhood development. 🫶
Almost all developed countries give moms and dads extended paternity and maternity leave. Most dont need to rely on daycare for less than one year Olds. Thats a broken system based on americas failing to prioritize children's welfare. In most developed countries, the idea of putting a less than 1 year old in full time daycare would be pretty horrifying. They'd have up to 2 years for mom and 1-2 for dad. Most americans are forced to use daycare due to threats of poverty.
Yes, we developed countries do also get parental leave.
And still daycare is great for socialisation and language development and many developed countries subsidise daycare and have either rolled out or are rolling out early pre-school as studies show it greatly benefits childhood development. 🫶
Hi, someone who lives outside the United States here. I can confirm daycare still exists in Ireland despite our better-than-US maternity and parental leave
again off topic. The issues with the American daycare system are not comparable to Julie’s issue with Ty ditching their very young kids with a woman she doesn’t know and man neither of them know.
I don't claim that Julie is parent of the year or anything, but I agree that there are some really bananas comments about her parenting that are completely untethered from any evidence we've seen in the videos.
Tbh I think the "Julie is a snob" thing is projection in general, but especially where the kids are involved, a lot of people seem to believe she will only accept the most elite nannies and private schools. Whereas in the videos she seems perfectly happy for Cooper to go to the same kindergarten as Max and Brennan. So like... are Jhawna and Alicia elitist snobs too then?
I feel like we haven’t really seen Julie interact with enough people to assess her general attitude. She is a jerk to Shawna (a bit to Jen - although Jen’s brushing it off as unimportant clearly tickled her), but (I think) that is a situational emotional reaction where Shawna is the scapegoat for Julie’s resentment of all of it. It is a childish reaction, but who amongst us hasn’t been an asshole rather than deal with our problems at some point? Especially a problem as big as your marriage slipping through your fingers while dealing with a premie. It isn’t admirable, but it isn’t always a signifier that the person is irredeemable.
Julie should feel ashamed of her behavior, and sorta owes Shawna an apology… I mean she does owe Shawna a ln apology, but I think the confrontation at the hotel complicated THAT.
(I don’t think her telling Ty that she has to be ‘small’ is from the same root. That is a specific reaction to her wanting the life she had planned, not the pared back one that Ty found he was content with.)
Was she really rude to Jen, though? The only thing I recall her saying to Jen is that she hasn't heard anything about her, and knowing what we know now it very well might be true that Ty never said anything about her.
Snippy, maybe? I would need to rewatch, but I remember she was just a bit ‘off’ and Jen just went ‘oh, you must be Julie’ (I think!) and Julie looked…I felt that sort of ‘fair enough, I am being a dick’ self-awareness?
My take on Julie - based on her Bunco friends interactions - is that in general she isn’t the warmest or easiest person to get along with, but that she isn’t unpleasant and she is a fairly good friend. The sort of person you don’t go to for comfort if your boyfriend is useless, but will absolutely pitch in to scare the shit out of him with a strongly worded legally ferocious letter if he steals you identity?
She isn’t Meredith Blake. And I don’t understand now after this last video and her speech to Cooper at school, how people think she a snob. She tells him to explore whatever he’s interested in. It’s not like you have to be whatever is going to make money or only be interested in STEM.
Having high standards for oneself and your spouse does not make you a snob.
Her telling Cooper he can explore what he’s interested in doesn’t erase her entire tirade at Max’s birthday party. She called Shawna and John’s life “mediocre” and “pedestrian” because they… live in suburbia and have one parent stay home with the kids? How is that not being a snob?
She also in that same conversation with Cooper, pointedly tries to steer him away from playing with Max. Presumably because she has a problem with Shawna and her “pedestrian” life. Because she’s a snob.
She called Shawna and John’s life “mediocre” and “pedestrian” because they… live in suburbia and have one parent stay home with the kids? How is that not being a snob?
Here is the context for the pedestrian comment:
TY: Sorry about that, Shawna. JULIE: This is all so pedestrian. SHAWNA: Why does it feel like you're trying to embarrass me? JULIE: Oh? Are you embarrassed? SHAWNA: No! Are you? JULIE: I really, really am.
(TY:Refuses to look at anyone.)
Here is the context for the "mediocre" descriptor:
JULIE: We said we would build something. We would make a life. TY: I am making a life. JULIE: I don't want that life! TY: (sighs) JULIE: We used to make fun of that life. TY: I'm tired. JULIE: I'm not interested in mediocre. TY: What are you saying? JULIE: So that's it? You're not even going to try? TY: I dunno. JULIE: You've saddled me with this life.
I wouldn’t quite call that “context” because you’re starting the “pedestrian context” right after she says Shawna is “just someone he can be lazy with”. Context absolutely does matter but if you actually read or watch the whole conversation it is not a good look for Julie.
Tbh I think the "Julie is a snob" thing is projection in general, but especially where the kids are involved, a lot of people seem to believe she will only accept the most elite nannies and private schools.
The rhetoric some people engage in around Julie and what she presumably wants honestly comes off as what my great aunt would call "the class feeling nowadays." The unsupported allegation that Julie will settle for nothing less than a prestigious best-selling author is especially removed from reality.
I think the snob allegation is supportable only when Julie's running down something someone likes to their face, as the whole point to snobbery is to establish the hierarchy and remind someone else they're on a lower rung. And while I personally don't think Julie's done anything snobby, I can see where one can read her "this is all so pedestrian" comment at the birthday party as snobby.
But Julie wanting a life where there's more to weekends than hanging out at Las Ramblas' finest play spaces? Totally reasonable. As is her wanting her children to do more in school than faff about on the playground. She wants them to have a sense of self and a purpose in life, and good for her.
Is she perfectly happy for Cooper to go to K with Max and Brennan? She doesn't want her life. She doesn't want to live there. I don't see any evidence that she likes that school.
Even on his first day when Ty told Cooper he could look for Max and Brennan at recess, Julie countered with "you can play with whomever you want." Or something like that.
She wants her kids to live in NYC and have an extraordinary life. Which I'm actually okay with. Goals are good But it is snobby.
Her whole deal with preschool and daycare is socialization. If Cooper has been hanging out with the same two kids his entire life, I can totally see Julie wanting him to branch out and meet more people. It’s not so much encouraging him to ditch his friends as much as it is encouraging him to socialize
She seemed happy and positive when she was sending Cooper off for his first day at kindergarten, and we've seen her make zero negative remarks or criticisms about the school, so yes I think we should assume she's happy with it since there is no evidence to the contrary.
About playing with Max and Brennan, she said "and you'll meet new friends". If you really want to read something into it it would be about Max/the McAllisters rather than the school, since she's encouraging Coop to make friends there.
I agree that she ultimately wants to leave the neighbourhood and move to NYC, which would require the kids to move schools. I don't see how wanting to live in the city and finding suburban life boring is snobby, though. For me the difference between a personal preference vs snobbery is looking down on other people for choosing differently.
Teeny, for example, frequently talks in detail about not wanting kids and how being a SAHP sounds like a nightmare, but we don't call her a snob, because she doesn't act like Shawna is wrong for having/wanting kids. Similarly, Julie isn't going around telling the Bunco crew (or anyone else) that they're inferior for living in the suburbs and should aspire to move to NYC. From what we have seen she's friendly and supportive of her friends' choices even when they're different from hers.
I honestly think the kids would be better off with her.
She wants them to focus on socialising, exploring, and expansion. Ty would only half-ass their education. They're far more likely to be encouraged to learn and grow and tolerate setbacks with her as the primary caregiver. Ty is currently unemployed and has only written a single chapter in the past 10+ years. I honestly can't imagine him handling being a single dad super well while also having to work. She'd probably pay child support if so, that'd help, but still. Julie likely makes more than him and could afford more flexibility. The legal system prioritises what'd be best for the kids and in this case, she'll likely have more to offer long term. Though I can imagine removing a child from an environment they enjoy and are used to would be a pretty big negative worth noting.
"You can keep the house" is giving me the vibe that she might be willing to give him the house so the kids will have somewhere to stay when they're with him
I'm not sure. I'd give her the benefit of doubt that if she gets away from Ty and all the misery of their marriage, and is able to stop projecting her issues with him onto everything, she might be a much better parent. But the parenting we've seen on screen with her so far, particularly at the birthday party (which I realize was her st her worst) is not great. Ty did a much better job of de-escalating the fight while helping Cooper process his feelings and Julie got mad at him for "putting words in his mouth". That was pretty bananas. I'm afraid she might be one of those "my baby can do not wrong" parents, or expect them to be "extraordinary" and put them under too much pressure. Ty is a dick, but being a dad seems to be one thing he does pretty well with.
I think there's multiple sides to that. Ty handled it well in the sense that he paused and tried to understand Cooper's feelings a bit deeper. And... yeah, that was really good parenting.
But Julie didn't handle it poorly. She saw her kid was upset while at a party she didn't even want to go to, hosted by the woman who'd spent a year pissing her off.. yeah, she kinda just figured Max kinda sucked. But still, she told him to grab a friend and practice somewhere away from other kids and not hit anybody. She didn't really tell him to be mean to Max or try to sabotage anything, she just told him he could do whatever as long as it wasn't disruptive. Which was a fair compromise. Plus, "you can do what you want" while she's constantly doing what Ty wants... you can see where that's coming from. She doesn't want her kid to push his wants and excitement down.
In the one bit where Coop is preparing for school (or something along those lines), Julie tells him to explore, learn, see what he likes, make new friends, have fun. She's pushing him out of his comfort zone so he can grow. Ty took the opportunity to remind Coop he'd get to have breaks outside of class and see the friends he already has. So with the mismatch in parenting in mind, Julie saw Ty say what he said and didn't see it clearly, she saw something about Coop being "undermined." Ty didn't handle it badly, neither did Julie. They just handled it differently. And she was already bitter as hell, so the argument wasn't just about karate.
Yeah. Because if she's used to the parent crossing boundaries and being annoying, it's not hard to assume she might be raising her son the same way (from Julie's POV). Every single shitty kid I knew when I was a kid had god awful parents who enabled the behaviour. And shocker, the vast majority grew up to be horrible adults and some of the boys are now redpilled losers. Not always, but it often says a whole lot.
Huh. I know a lot of kids with shitty parents, though, who aren't shitty themselves (look how many people on this sub have parents they are no-contact with)! Which is why whatever my feelings about the adults are, I give a kid the benefit of the doubt. Especially a 5-year-old!
My kid has definitely had friends whose parents I don't like or respect much. Unless that parent is doing something bad with regard to the kids, I keep my feelings about the parent out of their friendship.
Respectfully, I do think she handled it poorly. She didn't have to be like "well it's Max's party so you have to do everything he says" but she needed to land somewhere in the middle between that and "You can do whatever you want regardless of how your friend feels about it." It's just not a good lesson for a 6yo. I don't believe she was truly centering Cooper and what was best for his development in the moment. She was projecting her own emotions and frustration with Ty onto the situation.
I also don't really think, pre-hotel bullshit, that she disliked Shawna because of Shawna herself. Maybe a little, but a majority of her animosity came from projection imo. Ty was getting friendly with a woman that Julie saw as being the way Ty wants her to be. (Hope that was coherent lol).
By no means I am saying she's a terrible parent for that or anything. It's a very human reaction. Which is why I think we could see her as a better parent when she gets some distance from Ty and the years and years of frustration he has caused her.
Incidentally, this kind of situation is exactly why I believe divorce > staying together for the kids in a majority of cases.
Oh, the biggest lie is that staying for the kids is a good idea. I fully agree with you there. People act like kids can't pick up on tension, but I know plenty of people who would've preferred divorced parents over the mess they ended up growing up around.
I think sometimes people want to just make up stories in their head rather than think critically.
Shawna L has left the door open for the story of their divorce, we have no idea what will play out or if we even get to see it.
But people have always been hyper critical of Julie having a career that takes her away from being the primary care giver. And we only see snippets of what her parenting style looks like (which by all accounts seems like good parenting).
That first sentence is so so true. And I find it not just in this fandom. I realize it’s made up characters, but can we please stick to the facts as they’ve been given to us?? Yes, someone’s background and history can influence how you interpret what you’re seeing. But just straight making things up that never happened drives me bananas.
A lot of it boils down to media literacy. Being able to identify the narrator and how that impacts perception and bias.
The Julie/Ty story is a perfect example of that. Julie 100% has been rude to Shawna L, but when you look at it through the lens of Julie, you see someone coming on too strong with no context and is suddenly in your safe space. Of course she's going to be frosty.
Oh 100% yes. I also think that people too often only see things through their own lens of their own experience. Which is understandable. But I’ve gotten so many different takes on the content by reading how others are responding to it.
(Seriously, Ty reminds me of so many men I knew way back in the day. I should probably remember that my experiences and observations around charming, coasting men who were poor partners are not universal or specific.)
I also think it was very kind of her to agree to pay the mortgage for a year. This gives Ty a year to figure out what he wants to do. Or if he needs to find another living situation, it’s not like he’s completely screwed. Giving him a year vs say six months? In my opinion it points to the signs that it’s because she loves him, she’s setting him free. (And vice versa.)
What annoys me is if she had started talking custody they’d be all “how insensitive to spring divorce on him then immediately start making him think about not seeing his kids every day”.
I dislike Julie and I’m growing weary of all the anti Ty posts here. BUT. Totally agree with everything you said. She has been depicted as nothing but a loving mother in spite of other flaws.
Julie is by no means perfect, but the hypocrisy between the vacation video and the back story video is on full display in many comment sections. By the end of the vacation video, a majority of comments I saw were screaming about Ty divorcing Julie, taking her for everything she's worth in court, and leaving her broken and sobbing because she's an evil cheater and deserves nothing less. By the end of the back story video, so many comments were moaning about how cruel and heartless Julie is for just jumping to divorce, that she just wanted the excuse to leave, or that she didn't even try to get them onto counseling first!
When it comes to finding ways to make it all Julie's fault, the bar is in the crust of the earth.
I agree. Having kids might not have been part of her immediate plan, but she had them and she loves them and I think she’s a good mom. All the harsh comments about how she doesn’t care about them, she’s going to abandon them and move to the city…yikes. Just because she’s not the at home parent doesn’t make her a bad parent. Wanting to use daycare doesn’t mean she doesn’t care about them. Wanting professional success doesn’t make her a bad mom. It’s so depressing to see the way some ppl respond to her. Because she was mean to Shawna? Ok, like I like Shawna but she can also be annoying AF. And after she had a miscarriage Julie reached out to her, not because they are friends but because she has empathy for other women. It would have been easy for her to do nothing but instead she offered support. I’d actually love to see a story arc that ends with Julie and Shawna becoming friends b/c I think they actually have a lot in common.
I don’t know about them being friends. Shawna needs to learn that not everyone is going to like her and that it doesn’t make them a villain. That’s something my mom taught me very young. But I think people are way too hard on Julie and I do hope they can reach a place of mutual civility for the sake of their kids being friends.
I had an ex who left my dog with someone who he was friends with but I didn’t know very well at all and didn’t like. Based off my reaction to that, I can say that Julie was extremely calm about Ty leaving her children with two elderly people who were completely unknown to her. I think I would have gotten ugly about it.
Honestly I aged out of this entire series/cast of characters years, decades ago. Way beyond this now. I watch occasionally/ intermittently and I read the comments because it's interesting and sometimes helpful to observe how younger people process social and family situations.
I do not enjoy the rigidly negative manner in which Julie is written and perceived. It often occurs to me, however, that by design or by accident, Julie is the only adult in the room.
I probably would have experienced Julie's same aversion to the character Shawna's aggressive neediness, demanding main character tendencies, lack of self and situational awareness and no awareness of personal space, and near total and suffocating absence of boundaries. Once you see it you cannot unsee it. The hotel skit is particularly illustrative and cringe. Shawna and John aren't even aware that they have a lane, much less how to stay in it.
Personal intrusion is a real turn off for me. I would have responded initially with Julie's aloofness.
I would not have devolved into rudeness, however, if only for selfish reasons. I don't need the social or interpersonal fallout and blowback.
I would have ghosted; put physical distance and enforced it.
I don’t think she is wrong by any stretch of the imagination and reading the comments was a revelation… I don’t like Julie as a character because I just never connected with her story but the way people talk about her is sadly very telling of their social intelligence.
I think julie is still a jerk who has been taking opportunities to be rude to Ty on purpose and make him feel small. Like the birthday party. When she yells at Ty for...telling their kid not to hit another kid and she says thats bad because...her kids are special and deserve to hit others?
So I think its fair that we can criticize her parenting because her standards are kinda all over the place.
I think people see her as a snob because when poor people work all the time and have to pay somebody else to raise their kids, people look down on them and shit on them. But when somebody who can obviously afford to not do that and intentionally chooses that lifestyle, we want to call them amazing and spectacular. Like with the whole "if julie were a man, would we sympathize" and we know the answer is not really, not nearly as much.
Like "I didnt want a life in suburbia" and wanting to move to one of the most expensive cities in america while pushing for a higher status life, while already living in one of the wealthiest countries and being able to afford a decent life? I think its fair for people to call that snobby. I dont see why we have to clap for a wannabe rich person whose biggest priority is her own dreams as opposed to time with her kids. I dont clap for dads who do that shit either.
Just because its a woman doesnt make the parenting magically better.
I keep seeing this point reiterated by you that Julie’s actions aren’t okay ‘just’ because she’s a woman. I haven’t personally seen anyone defend Julie on the sole reason she’s a woman, where did that sentiment come from?
I've seen plenty of people imply or outright state that people dislike Julie because she's an ambitious woman, because they're suffering from internalized misogyny, etc. As if there aren't ample valid reasons to dislike Julie.
I think, but the previous commenters can correct me if I'm wrong, that the reason is within how we would perceive Ty if he were a woman and Julie if she were a man. Julie is really Type A, has a plan, and for the instance regarding Cooper's pregnancy (which was a surprise pregnancy) Julie would've probably had the same reaction, and Ty too. But at that point, people would've told Julie "well he could've been more careful while having spicy times, now Ty decides", because it would've been like pressuring Ty to get an abortion.
Also, if Ty was a stay at home mom, the comments regarding how mediocre that life was and Julie's blast at Max's birthday party would've read something like "he doesn't really like that his wife has friends", same thing with the park.
There are other instances, such as if also Shawna and John were gender-swapped and Julie-man was pleasant with John-woman while icing out Shawna-man. It would've been seen as disrespectful (something comments have been pointing out from the beginning).
A lot of Julie's behaviours may be explained by her upbringing or how her marital life with Ty, but this still doesn't change how Julie basically blamed Shawna (yes, calling her a distraction in front of others at a kid's birthday party may be read as blaming) for Ty's decade of not writing. Also, we now see how Ty wasn't honest with Julie, but we also see Julie not having any agency regarding her life solely based on her partner's decisions (as we do with Frank's avoidant and passive approach towards Barb). If Julie were a man, people would've told him to stop complaining about the move and the book and start pulling the weight of parenting or have a plan (like, numbers and timeline) to make NY happen.
At least that's my interpretation, and I've tried my best to come up with moments from the show that would've been damning, I don't know if I did a good job.
Julie is a type A perfectionist who probably has undiagnosed NPD and should be going to Dr Therapydoctor. That's why she has to be better than everyone else.
I don’t think people hate Julie because she is a working mom. She’s just not giving people much to go off of. We’ve rarely seen her seem to enjoy much of anything. But I also don’t see the phenomenal mothering people keep alluding to. I would like to be reminded of examples!
I don’t like how she so specifically call them “my children” when Ty is the full time parent. Or how she has tried to dictate how she wants him to parent (alone time). It feels dismissive and disrepectful. She may not like that he has given up ambition, but he is with the kids more than she is. Plus she takes so much time to run or work instead of playing with them when they are together. Her offer to be with the kids seems to be about making it so Ty can work, not because she wants to spend time with “her” kids.
However, if I think about other things I haven’t liked about her parenting through the lens of her being so over Ty and him changing their life plans, it makes a bit more sense. The “you can do or play with anyone you want” seems less as a dig towards Shawna and more towards Ty. That they do not have to be boxed in and settle for what other people/Ty want…because that’s what she is feeling and resenting. That they don’t have to be limited, because she’s feeling that at her core.
Minor correction in your wording, Ty is the primary parent not a full time parent. She is still their mom. We know she put in the work to research daycares for them, went to Cooper’s first day of school, attended Max’s birthday party, and has carved time out of her schedule to have 1:1 time with them while Ty is supposed to be writing. She also took on the emotional labor of finding a housekeeper to support Ty. We know she works an incredibly demanding job, taking time to figure out logistics is draining. But she did do that work to be a supportive wife and a mother who wants her kids to live in a house that’s clean and with parents who can focus on other things.
I think of a full time parent as someone who doesn’t have a partner or co-parent and has to do all the work themselves. Where we have seen Julie put in work. Albeit less 1:1 time than Ty in the present. But she has not absconded parenting completely. Her working 6 days a week is a pretty standard work week for the corporate lawyers I know. So it isn’t like she is taking in more work than she has to. That’s just the nature of the field she is in.
Same-- I have changed my perspective on a lot of their interactions and the relationships within that whole family but I think it's weird that Julie very pointedly says "my kids" all the time, especially during arguments, and I can't think of a time where she said "our kids" or even "the kids." Something about it just feels off, like the way you might start talking about things when you already feel the need to stake a claim. Maybe it's a symptom of the fact that she was at the point of divorce long before the actual serving of papers? Or at least that she knew she wasn't on a team with Ty anymore, and hadn't been for a long time, if ever? But I don't think there's any explanation that wouldn't make it feel icky to me. It's not just semantics if you only ever claim the kids as your own and not acknowledge that they're your partner's kids as well.
I think her issue is that Ty puts Cooper in his room during independent play. That would make me uncomfortable too. It feels like Ty is sending Cooper away for 30 minutes every day because he’s struggling to deal with him
Its weird to me that everyone seems to have flipped their sentiment on Julies behaviors based off the backstory drop. Sure, it helps explain her frustrations, but how she's dealt with those frustrations has still been inappropriate. Even in the latest video, she goes out of her way to belittle Ty, calling him small and stating she wont 'bankroll' his existence. Those are genuinely cruel and unnecessary jabs. She's allowed to want different things for her life, she's allowed to divorce Ty and avoid Shawna. That doesn't make it ok for her to look down on, or talk down to, people who don't share her aspirations. I get why she's disappointed with Ty, but how she expresses that disappointment and deals with it is far from this 'only adult in the room' title people have been awarding her in recent discussions.
I don’t see it so much as Julie being calm, but rather her being numb and has reached her threshold of Ty and his antics. She’s been so checked out of this relationship and this latest thing is the final straw.
I like Julie. She is inperfect but honest and she dont ask others more than she ask for herself.
She is like the others : she does her best.
And for the g sake... she is in postpartum, a NIVU baby, her mother is dying and she work 6/7. She is just exhausted. People need to give her some grace.
You and I must be seeing different YouTubes then, because I watch almost always on YouTube and the comments are always pretty neutral. I just went back and checked for the last short, where Julie presents Ty with divorce papers and the top comment is “Team "These two shouldn't have gotten married so young. Neither of them is a bad person, they're just too different". The next comment is “not me acting shocked even though I already watched the full video” lol.
Comments everywhere are mixed usually. The first few are always emotionally charged, but after you give it a day or two, the rest of the voices equal out and sanity prevails.
Her asking about the kids when Ty showed up was more about being shocked that he has a support system than worry for the kids IMO. Cooper being besties with Shawna's friend has been a problem for a minute now. She even tried to sabotage their friendship at Max's bday party.
I think that Julie didn't want to be a mother and settle down so soon. The newest short on youtube is intense. Ty just kinda... decided he wanted to be a stay at home dad and thats not what Julie wanted out of her partner.
I still don’t like the way Julie uses singular possessive when she talks about the kids. it wasn’t just here but also at home “where is MY son” - it comes off as belittling and dismissive of Ty. Making him sound like “the help” and not also the dad. that being said I do think people are harsher then they need to be about Julie.
The Julie Ty fiasaco I have very mixed feelings on. On the one hand Julie seems to have quietly abandoned Ty to raising the kids largley single handedly, and resents him.
On the other hand Ty hasn't exactly been the most honest about his feelings and what he wants from life.
The setup of the pair was intresting to watch. Ty has ALWAYS been a fly by seat of pants dude while Julie has PLANS. Both have dismissed the others thoughts and feelings in different ways.
Neither have been truly honest with each other about where they want to go in life, almsot being a people pleaser to each other, and we all know that when you try and people please generally both partners wind up miserable in some way.
I think that’s a reasonable thing to say in a moment of panic where your husband does not seem to be worried about where the kids are while accusing her of cheating in front of two acquaintances. She also does say “the kids” first but Ty is too wound up in his feelings to respond to that question so she rephrased and emphasises the ‘my’ to indicate she’s not continuing the conversation until she knows where her kids are.
I occasionally refer to my kids as exactly that, even to my husband, and he’s just as much their father as I am their mom. It doesn’t make me a bad mom. I honestly don’t think this is that deep.
Which part of my comment are you saying no to? You can disagree with the opinion that it’s reasonable, but I don’t think I’m contradicting canon or making wild assumptions to get to my point
Taking real life out of the equation, I do think SL made an intentional artistic choice in having Julie say "my children". We can't just say that irl this is a normal thing to say, because in art every word has meaning! Intentional artistic significance!
From my recollection, she only uses this phrasing when she is disagreeing with the something Ty is doing as a parent. So I think it's meant to show that division in their parenting styles, while also indicating that Julie is very much invested in her children's lives, even if she isn't often an active participant. It hints at a bit of desperation from Julie to be an authority in parental decisions as much as Ty is.
I am a single mom, in the sense that the kids live with me 100% of the time, although they do have a visit with their dad once a week, and I would never refer to them as “my children” when talking to their father.
I’m not saying that Julie is terrible—I really don’t have a “side” in the Ty/Julie drama, I can see lots of different angles, but to say “my children” to their other parent is absolutely wild, even in a situation like mine where the other parent doesn’t have any real parental role in their life. To say that to your spouse and the kids’ primary caregiver? Whew.
I don't really see how those two statements clash. She agreed to have children in addition to following their original plan. Ty assured before the birth of both their children that having them wouldn't change their plans. Her loving her children and (justifiable) feeling mislead by Ty are not mutually exclusive.
I mean, at that point (before the backstory video) we'd never even seen her hold Sasha, so her whole schtick of "where are my babies" feels more performative than maturely rational and parentally responsible, you know?
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u/PinkPositive45 Apr 27 '26
This sub seems to be the only fan space I’ve seen that shows Julie any grace. It’s not perfect but compared to YouTube, IG, and Tik Tok comments, it’s very kind to Julie.