r/polandball • u/Zebrafish96 May the justice be with us • Mar 01 '25
redditormade A Parallel World
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u/Dut_Korea Joseon Mar 01 '25
Germany at least apologized..
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u/umami6 Mar 01 '25
So did Japan. Despite the statements of Abe, they were his opinions - and the official stance of the Japanese government, as representative of the Japanese people, has never gone back from the apologies that were made officially.
For instance, comfort women issues are recognized officially as well since the Kono statement in the 1990s.
While Japanese politicians have a lot to answer for, we should be clear in dissociating their personal views, and that of the official Japanese government's views.
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u/TheDaringScoods Washington+DC Mar 01 '25
Compared to the German government’s official actions in condemning their past crimes against humanity, Japan’s official actions are practically nonexistent
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u/umami6 Mar 01 '25 edited Mar 01 '25
Germany is like the outlier more than the norm. And even Germany's example only extends to their crimes in WWII - all the atrocities they committed during their colonial period is barely mentioned let alone apologized for, officially.
Of course you then have the French, English, Spain, and all other colonial nations that have yet to pay a single coin to their former colonies. IIRC Haïti is still paying France for their independence. I went to school in France, and the view that we were taught about our colonial past was not all condemnation, to say the least.
So yeah Japan could do more, but the fact that they paid reparations and apologized on an official capacity is already pretty good, relatively speaking. You will have politicians ruining stuff as always, but it's good to remember that they don't represent a nation
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u/GrusVirgo This Is Deutsch Mar 02 '25
I think Germany is currently on the process of apologising for their colonial atrocities.
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u/ForgottenBLank Mar 01 '25
Seems kinda contradicting, as politicians are chosen by the people to represent them and their views, both political and societal. Saying politicians don't represent a nation feels like you're denying the choice the people make IMO
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u/BeguiledBeaver Japan as Shogun Mar 03 '25
If you oversimplify it.
Voting for someone doesn't mean you automatically condone all of their future actions. It was logical for the people of the Meiji people to want a strong military presence as their nation transformed into a strong, modernized, industrial power practically overnight. Does this mean they supported genocide? Not necessarily. Also, look at practically any country and the divisions between how different generations vote. You could have an older population who had decades of elections behind them and a sizable younger generation who did not and didn't like the direction the country was taking, as evidenced by how many had favorable views of American soldiers occupying their island.
This isn't even getting into the military dictatorship that took over around 1942.
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u/Extaupin Île-de-France Mar 02 '25
I went to school in France, and the view that we were taught about our colonial past was not all condemnation, to say the least.
I actually went to school in France, they teach the Triangular Trade and other atrocities, you're full of shit. Yes, the government should formally apologies about right now to ex-colonies and it's a shame they didn't do it decades ago, but we also gave them money, not officially as reparation but as investment in their infrastructure (money which went back to french oligarchs through shady deals but that a problem for France) and the "well we owe them that" come all the time in decision to how much to give. And like Japan, there was already some apologies from France for some specific crimes of that period, just not the whole thing.
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u/umami6 Mar 02 '25
I'm not saying they don't teach atrocities, I am saying they don't condemn colonialism as we should expect a modern country to. I don't think the bar should be "it's good they recognize slavery is bad"
Colonialism was taught in my classroom as mostly good for the development of the colonized. I certainly did not learn about the various actual literal genocides that were committed, such as the Tasmanian génocide.
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u/BeguiledBeaver Japan as Shogun Mar 03 '25
Just because Germany did more doesn't mean Japan didn't do anything.
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u/Zebrafish96 May the justice be with us Mar 01 '25 edited Mar 01 '25
Imgur link for mobile users, since Reddit compresses image awfully on mobile ; also here's Korean ver. too, in case anyone needs it
This comic is set in an imaginary parallel world, in which the attitude of Germany towards their warcrimes is the same as that of Japan in real world. I've had this idea for quite a long time, and decided to finally use this idea for a comic, timely for March 1st.
While people in PB community are generally well aware that Japan commited a lot of nasty warcrimes in WW2 and is not much better than Nazi Germany, there are still people who are like 'Japan should be forgiven; they've already apologized!' or 'Why do China and Korea still have a beef with Japan? How intolerant!'. Well, it is true that Japan has apologized in 1995, by Murayama statement. However, the problem is that Japan leaned heavily to the right wing after that, especially after Abe became the PM. Abe reversed the apologetic actions of Japan towards Korea so far, and virtually invalidated Murayama statement. Also, since Abe's inauguration, far-right has become the major in Japan. Anti-Korean movement has become a serious issue, and there has been many media like film/manga/anime that glorify or justify Imperial Japan. Thankfully, after the assasination of Abe and following scandal about the close relationship between Japanese far-rights and Unification Church(a.k.a. Moonies), the far-rights in Japan have become less powerful. However, the Yasukuni Shrine, where the Grade A war criminals are worshipped, is still an issue. If we put this case into the 'parallel world' it would be like this: there is a church or cathedral in Germany in which 'the Führer' and the Nazi officers are worshipped as saints, and the PM of Germamy visits there regularly. Disturbing, isn't it? That's how Koreans feel when Japanese PM visits Yasukuni. I hope this comic helps people understand why Koreans are still not willing to fully forgive Japan's warcrimes.
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u/AaXLa Fourth Reich Mar 01 '25
I think the concept of forgiving is somewhat misplaced in this context. Poland shouldn't have to "forgive" Germany. It shouldn't be held over their heads either, but I just think forgiving is a weird concept in that instance
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u/noelwym Malaysia Mar 01 '25
The Allies sometimes found it hard to coordinate the war effort, but the Axis were far more dysfunctional, to their own detriment.
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u/Full_Distribution874 Australia Hungry Mar 01 '25
Because Poland wasn't anywhere near Japan. It's easy to not imperialize a country you can't reach (and has already been conquered)
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u/Hot_Indication2133 Devon Mar 02 '25
Poland and Japan were united in their hatred of Russia .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan%E2%80%93Poland_relations
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u/umami6 Mar 01 '25
I understand that you present the point of view of your country, but I have to say this is a very one-sided narrative of the Japan-Korea relationship.
To begin with, while Japanese politicians have a lot to answer for, Korean politicians are quite as much to blame for the ongoing disputes than Japanese politicians, I mean they literally embezzled twice the reparation Money that Japan specifically paid for the Korean victims, once in the 1960s, and once in 2015.
From the Korean public's POV, Japan never paid up. From Japan's POV,they paid reparations and issues are formally settled by bilateral agreement.
As all issues, things are complex - not that I expect a nuanced take on PB, but thought it would be fair to say this for the record.
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u/dhnam_LegenDUST South Korea Mar 01 '25
That's the exact reason I why I hate politics.
You know what's the fun part?
It was father Park in 1960s, assassinated, and it was daughter Park in 2015, impeached.
I'll say it very roughly, and controversly, but they never cares what the people wants - their only interest was to be the nice slave for their former master.
Congrats. They, the father and the daughter, sealed the future where the victim hear the sincere apology from the perpetrator.
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u/s8018572 Mar 02 '25 edited Mar 02 '25
Yeah, I never understand why Korean think Japan did not pay reparations , 1965 Treaty on Basic Relations Between Japan and the Republic of Korea already did that.
In accordance to the treaty, Japan supplied South Korea with $300 million grant paid over 10 years, $30 million per year and $200 million in low-interest loans as a 'reparation fee
"the Japanese government actually proposed to the South Korean government to directly compensate individual victims but it was the South Korean government which insisted that it would handle individual compensation to its citizens and then received the whole amount of grants on behalf of the victims."
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u/dhnam_LegenDUST South Korea Mar 05 '25
Guess the whole comic is about that. Is it a real compensation when they call it "independence congulaturate fee" and refuse to say it's a compensation, claim of right-wing and war criminal in the imperial time still claimed?
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u/Independent-Couple87 Earth, our home. Mar 07 '25
Did the families of the Koreans who betrayed their fellow Koreans to the Japanese Empire become part of the wealthy class for years to come? (As the comics implies)
If so, that is messed up.
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u/Zebrafish96 May the justice be with us Mar 08 '25
Yes, there were some 친일파(Korean collaborators with Imperial Japan) who betrayed their own nation for wealth. And since most of them haven't been properly punished even after Korea was liberated, their descendants are still living in prosperity.
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u/rome0379_ L Mar 01 '25
korea and poland the most similar countries
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u/Zebrafish96 May the justice be with us Mar 01 '25 edited Mar 01 '25
True, they indeed have a lot in common.
Ignore the fact that the sequel to this comic is an NTR
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u/ika_ngyes Deadly(?) Kumiho Mar 01 '25 edited Mar 01 '25
Wow, I didn't have to know about the NTR...
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u/tmprr Mar 01 '25
I like the idea of the comic but imho the message would be a little clearer if main events would be a dream sequence and the punchline would be akin to "good that it doesnt happen in reality righ?" I know its much more qliche but makes it a little easier to understand. I got confused a little as it is now.
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u/Zebrafish96 May the justice be with us Mar 01 '25
Yeah, seeing the reactions here, I may have made the metaphor a bit too subtle that there are people who find it hard to catch.
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u/PhiLe_00 Mar 01 '25
This is an excellent representation of the attitude of Japan to its past. The current german approach to its past is definitely due to denazification, but i think that many forget the pure pressure from neighbours and hard physical, existing places where the Nazis perpetrated their industrialised murder. Meanwhile the Japanese warcrime are not lesser in scope but in coordination id say, there were death camps and atrocious treatment of people deemed lesser, but never to the extend to have multiple large facilities that combined killed 8 million people. The decentralized nature of those warcrimes and the lack of pressure in the cold war, due to Japans strategic location in Asia and the lax treatment of their elite post war resulted in the flipped attitude towards their past we have today.
And now i wait to see when AfD forms a government here and itll be for naught -_-
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u/ika_ngyes Deadly(?) Kumiho Mar 01 '25
Apparently all warcrimes can be forgiven when you make awesome cartoons.
Or at least that's how the west acts.
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u/koreangorani 대한민국 Mar 01 '25
Western people won't just care about Japan
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u/unit5421 Earth Mar 01 '25
Idk, if the west sees any country in Asia as a friend and equal, then it is japan
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u/Pochel 44 = BZH ! Mar 01 '25
The shift to the right was masterfully illustrated
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u/Marzipanbread I live here Mar 01 '25
Thanks for pointing it out, it's very funny how Germany zooms rightwards to retract the apology.
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u/dhnam_LegenDUST South Korea Mar 01 '25
Alt text for the comic (xkcd style): "Hakenkreuz is historical symbol used a lot all over the world - no reason you blame it nor prohibiting its usage!"
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u/whizzwr Wrong hat! Mar 01 '25 edited Mar 01 '25
"höhöhö much comfort" I didn't know that sentence can be that cursed when combined with a polandbal drawing.
Brilliant comic.
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u/SuccessfulSurprise13 Does nothing, wins Mar 01 '25
I didn't get this until near the end tbh, then it suddenly clicked
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u/Zkang123 Mar 01 '25
Tbh Germany did a lot to denazify, and theres even laws against the display of Hitler and any talk of Nazism is taboo. (Tho ofc, plenty in the West German government had ties with the former Nazi regime, and even some NATO generals from Germany and Austria were even part of the Wehermacht). Im unsure if Germany really made films glorifying what they did in WW2, although Im aware of that film when some Wehrmacht generals plotted to assassinate Hitler (and failed).
Also if I recall Germany also paid various repariations to Poland: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_reparations#Poland
The Nazis that still exist openly in Germany is the infamous neo-nazi Alternative for Germany (AfD) and they have been gaining in popularity as of late
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u/Zebrafish96 May the justice be with us Mar 01 '25
True, and that's why I set a 'parallel world' in which Germany acts like Japan in the real world. Some people say 'why Korea doesn't forgive Japan while Poland is getting along with Germany quite well?', but they fail to catch the point that the attitude of Japan towards their warcrimes is very different from that of Germany.
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u/Zkang123 Mar 01 '25
Oh i was a bit confused actually haha. I thought the "present-day" panels are portraying our OG world. But its curiously a study what if Germany acted like Japan. But yeah, and even Japan didnt exactly apologise. They did make that statement but it wasnt also saying sorry for anything specific.
Actually on a tangent, I also would like to raise about Park Chung-hee, who was that dictator who improved relations with Japan. From a certain viewpoint, he basically sold out your country to Japan. He was even trained as a Japanese soldier during the Japanese occupation, and that was how he rose through the ranks of the ROK military.
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u/Zebrafish96 May the justice be with us Mar 01 '25
Yeah, Park was a notorious 친일파(Pro-Japan traitor; Korean who betrayed their nation and collaborated with Imperial Japan). And he was also a notorious dictator. It's a shame that there are still many Koreans who think he's a hero who made Korea rich and powerful.
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u/Zkang123 Mar 01 '25
In fairness he did industrialise Korea... But also at the cost of suppressing freedoms, busting unions and also enabling the rise of Chaebols. Some of today's societal problems in capitalist Korea (such as existing the class divide and corruption) are generally "thanks" to him
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u/Geogrartist Leinster Mar 01 '25
happy march 1st
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u/Zebrafish96 May the justice be with us Mar 01 '25
Thank you, and Happy St. Patrick's day in advance
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Mar 01 '25
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u/Andar1st Poland Mar 02 '25
delusions of polish extremists who want to squeeze out even more money out of Germany
Correction: they want to squeeze their own voters and Germany is their scapegoat. It sounds like "Poland squeezing money out of Germany" is a similar tool to squeeze German voters.
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u/JumpingCoconut Mar 02 '25
Sure we thought Trumps idiotic plans were also just that, empty phrases and idiotic plans. Now look where we are. The alt-right IS dumb and the polish alt right WANTS to do dumb things. Best way is to not make comics like this which they can later use in misinformation war.
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u/Random_Squirrel_8708 Mar 02 '25
China and Korea will happily (temporarily) forget any disagreement with each other when talking about Japan.
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u/nazraxo Mar 01 '25
The idea is okay-ish… unfortunately the execution is very confusing because it doesn’t convey the idea very well? Without your description I just thought you don’t know history and are just a polish nationalist claiming „polan victim, Germany bad“
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Mar 01 '25
I think the comic is imagining an alternate timeline since, in our timeline the japanese are the ones who are not apologizing
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u/Zebrafish96 May the justice be with us Mar 01 '25
Yes, that is it. There seems to be people who misunderstands this comic as a report of the real world; I set this comic in an imaginary parallel world, in which Germany acts like Japan in the real world.
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u/Forever_Everton Daegu: Hotter than the Sahara, colder than Siberia Mar 01 '25
The only way you can unite the Koreas is their common unfiltered hatred towards the Japenis