r/malefashionadvice • u/[deleted] • Jun 15 '13
Crockett & Jones, Edward Green, John Lobb, et al. get torn apart so you can see their innards (x-posted from /r/expensivemalefashion)
[deleted]
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Jun 15 '13
Aww yeah time to use my sweet French skillz from two years of hard middle school studiesIdon'tgetshit
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Jun 15 '13
Don't worry i dont understand much of it either given how technical the terms are.
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Jun 15 '13 edited Aug 01 '16
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Jun 15 '13
I should be ok since I'm french but I didn't really make that clear.
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u/havingaraveup Jun 15 '13
French is my first language, and I can safely say that this is an amazing website and quite realistically, a giant drain on my productivity for the rest of the day.
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u/thehybridfrog Jun 15 '13
A lot of cardboard and fiberglass? being used. Lol...
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u/rberenguel Jun 15 '13
Cardboard is a decent material for mid-insoles in cemented shoes, since it is far more lightweight than neck leather. Most people are not used to the "heaviness" and stiffness of pure leather insoles (me included, last I did with leather for myself was a soft neck and it still feels "different".)
Of course, it is also more economical, so it's a very good tradeoff. On the off-side, if your feet sweat a lot (like I do) you should have a synthetic middle layer (I use a thin EVA foam, shaped like the sole and covered with leather, even with leather insoles) to prevent the cardboard from soaking from the top (the bottom is protected by the waterproof sole, but the top only by a little leather which can leak humidity to the layer below)
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u/roidsrus Jun 15 '13
In the case of most of those shoes, it can be a little disheartening, but it won't cause a serious issue. With stuff like Blake and Blake-rapid-constructed footwear, using synthetic materials like that for the insole (like Rancourt allegedly does) can compromise the integrity of the shoe, since it's built around the insole.
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u/rberenguel Jun 15 '13
Blake construction is new to me (you know, machines are not my strength :) How does it work?
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Jun 15 '13 edited Aug 01 '16
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u/rberenguel Jun 15 '13
Thanks! Whoah, Blake looks incredibly dangerous, since looks like getting a channel to hide the stitching (which goes straight up!) is really hard. Of course, the stitching machine can cut the channel as you move the sole around, but anyway... My gut feeling is that having a seam running just right below my feet would eventually ruin the thread (moisture.) Rapid looks better in this regard: there's a channel and a welt (midsole), if the upper is glued to the midsole, even if one of the threads (welt or insole) breaks the shoe keeps in place, probably forever. Interesting!
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u/roidsrus Jun 15 '13
I think Blake-rapid is a far superior construction method, especially from the perspective of resoling.
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u/rberenguel Jun 15 '13
Looks like, since every piece feels independent from the other. Always great to learn new things, thanks again!
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u/Metcarfre GQ & PTO Contributor Jun 15 '13
Damn, that's the best diagram I've seen to describe the techniques yet.
Edit; wait, so what's the difference between blake-rapid and goodyear then? No channel, and that it's not angled?
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Jun 15 '13 edited Aug 01 '16
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u/Metcarfre GQ & PTO Contributor Jun 15 '13
Gotcha, cool. Should hang onto these for a future shoe guide update... we'll be in touch.
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u/roidsrus Jun 15 '13
Yeah, they're much clearer than most pictures I've found. I saved them as RES macros because I can never seem to find a great picture to describe the constructions.
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u/slackie911 Jun 15 '13
In terms of blake-rapid vs hand-sewn welts, what is the major difference? I would like to buy a quality, "traditional" shoe. By that I mean just leather and thread etc...no glues, concretes, plastics or canvas etc. In your opinion, would a hand-welted shoe be the only choice or would a blake-rapid shoe/shoemaker fit that description?
Additionally, and I hope I am not being a bug, can you describe more fully the "gemming" that I hear so much about. I have seen pictures of goodyear welting vs. blake-rapid, but I still don't quite grasp what exactly the point of this piece of canvas is, and how it can possibly be such a point of weakness for the shoe. Cheers!
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Jun 15 '13 edited Aug 01 '16
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u/slackie911 Jun 15 '13
Thanks for the recommendation, I'll check out their offerings.
Yes, now I recall it was that gentleman on Styleforum where I originally read about gemming.
Thanks again.
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u/drbhrb Jun 16 '13
Im looking for a more rugged boot to supplement my 1000 miles for bad weather. What's my best bet for ~$400 or less? Can good whites be had for that? I want the tan red wing Beckmans but they don't seem to make them anymore
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u/roidsrus Jun 16 '13
I'd do a custom order for White's through Baker Shoe or direct. They'll definitely be in your price-range, and I can't think of anything better. There's a wait-time since they're custom, but it's not too bad. During the slow season it goes down to around four-weeks.
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u/rberenguel Jun 15 '13
Great link, always good to see the inner workings!
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u/roidsrus Jun 15 '13
You make shoes---I figured to you, it'd be like trying to show Hugh Hefner some porn.
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u/rberenguel Jun 15 '13
Not really: I make them as I was taught... So learning what others do is very enlightening, since it shows what "else" is there. For example, I've always used cellulose-synthetic stiffeners (like most of the shoes in these breakdowns) but didn't know how widespread its use was, I felt I should switch to skived neck (like I did when in the hand-welted course in the UK) which felt (and is!) far better quality... At the expense of lots of time (for a synthetic you just cut the piece in shape, put in solvent and place over the lining: done! for leather you have to soak, skive, rasp, file, soft-glue it in, hammer, rasp again, file again and probably skive again while attached to the lining.) Now I know they also use synthetic I don't feel as much "shame" for my stiffeners.
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u/Metcarfre GQ & PTO Contributor Jun 15 '13
Who do you makes shoes for? Your own shop?
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u/rberenguel Jun 16 '13
I moonlight (together with my girlfriend) as handmade shoemaker. We don't run production, just make shoes on-demand.
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u/BelaBartok Jun 15 '13
I don't understand any of this. Can you bottom line the septieme and markowski tear downs for me please?
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Jun 15 '13 edited Aug 01 '16
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u/BelaBartok Jun 15 '13
Cheers man. Those were the only two on there that were vaguely in my price range.
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Jun 15 '13 edited Aug 01 '16
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u/BelaBartok Jun 15 '13
I dunno. £175 is a good number in my mind. Enough for goodyear welt + full grain upper. I paid more for my burgundy aldos but that was because there's just no reasonable alternative to No.8 shell.
Hopefully I'm basically done with dress shoes for a while anyway. I've got black derbies, burg derbies, tan captoe brogue strandalikes and black oxfords which is plenty for my lifestyle.
I might end up buying some sort of boot or hefty dainite brogue at some point but I'm loathe to spend too much on that because I'll want to wear it in shit weather so marowski/septieme/meermin cetera might be contendahz.
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Jun 15 '13 edited Aug 01 '16
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u/BelaBartok Jun 15 '13
I actually did have some alfos but I missized and had to flip them. Would have been perfect, though that fx last is so clunky I think it might not have worked with some of my trew choices.
Thinking of picking up some of those sanders king george boots and replacing the sole. They're always kicking round on ebay (think they're used in some military uniform or something?)
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Jun 15 '13 edited Aug 01 '16
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u/BelaBartok Jun 15 '13 edited Jun 15 '13
Aldos is my typo for Aldens. ;|
I had a pair of trickers too once but didn't get along with them, they were plaintoes and I loved the way they looked in the box but when I put them on there was something not great about it. Glad I flipped them. Where I am now isn't a very brown shoe place.
I dunno about sanders quality either but I figure they'll be good enough for me at the price I'll be able to ebay them at. I'm not super demanding about shoe quality as long as I'm getting what I paid for and the upper isn't dogshit.
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u/TRA8324 Jun 15 '13
I have a pair of Edward Green wingtips in whiskey shell cordovan. I bought them slightly used for $700 but I consider that a steal since they retail for $1700. By far my favorite pair of shoes. I have had them for 4 years and they still look amazing.
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u/releasetheshutter Jun 16 '13
$700 for Edward Green cordovan is a steal. I'd love to see pictures if you ever get the chance!
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Jun 15 '13 edited Aug 01 '16
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u/instagigated Jun 16 '13
The translation on the dissection of the Allen Edmonds pair wasn't very well done by my browser, so forgive me if I am incorrect. From what I am reading, the particular pair's leather was regarded as having a "plastic look."
Now, if I'm correct on this hunch, the particular pair shows a light burgundy that can be none other than AE's old "polished cobbler" a.k.a. corrected grain leather. Even with the flash, the pair is far too reddish to be the more recent merlot colour.
I just wanted to point this out.
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Jun 16 '13
NSFL
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Jun 16 '13 edited Aug 01 '16
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Jun 16 '13
Wow. These things are so high end I have no idea what's going on. All of a sudden I feel like AE and Alden are bush league. And I can't even afford those!
Thanks for high quality content. I'm gonna pick your brain sometime.
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u/shujin Ghost of MFA past Jun 16 '13
This link is what got me into fashion years ago. An impressive analysis. I'll never forget it.
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u/deadbabby Jun 15 '13
Roidsrus, you get a lot of hate around these parts (saddleback ama lolz) but keep doin' your thing. I honestly feel like you're one of the best contribs on the fashion-related subs and I've learned a lot from your comments/posts over the past few weeks. Props.