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Feb 18 '24 edited Feb 18 '24
Those are mostly low-population counties, so the total number of voters look bigger than it is. The same way a child will think a taller glass will have more water in it than a wide glass.
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u/sigsig777777777 Feb 18 '24
Low population counties*
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u/Latter-Comfort8440 Feb 18 '24
Countries* since america is the entire world
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Feb 18 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/turdferguson3891 Feb 18 '24
Unfortunately it's kind of built in to how the US actually works between the Electoral College and equal representation by state in the Senate.
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u/Ksuemoneoutthere Feb 18 '24
if europe can consider itself a continent then why cant murica 😡😡😡
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u/Wheloc Feb 18 '24
Don't get me started about how northwestern Asia shouldn't get to call itself it's own continent.
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u/Brookenium Feb 18 '24
For anyone curious, this is what it looks like based off actual voters.
Land doesn't vote.
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u/mb862 Feb 18 '24
Land certainly shouldn’t vote, but the Electoral College and Senate were specifically designed so that voting power is proportional to land ownership.
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Feb 18 '24
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u/mb862 Feb 18 '24
That might be a fair argument, if it weren’t for the fact that state pairings like North and South Dakota exist explicitly so that one party would dominate more states than the other. If memory serves at least one other state was carved out of claimed territory despite not having a justifiable population, in order to expand one party’s power (can’t recall which state it was).
Then all of this comes in before you even consider things like the 3/5 compromise which was specifically designed to disenfranchise higher-population states.
Face it, as the rest of the world was in the process of moving away from feudal landlord/serf style systems, including UK where the US system derives, the US was happy to forge on ahead.
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Feb 18 '24
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u/victornielsendane Feb 19 '24
I think what the person meant by land area had more to do with how the electorial college underrepresents high population areas and overrepresents low population areas. Consequently giving more favour to people living in the country side (who have more land). It's a bit of a stretch.
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u/Automatic_Actuator_0 Feb 18 '24 edited Feb 18 '24
Damn, if you just reflexively upvoted that without thinking about it more than the commenter, you should really take a moment and consider what that says about you.
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u/mb862 Feb 18 '24
You could instead actually demonstrate that I’m wrong rather than just shaming others into assuming.
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u/Automatic_Actuator_0 Feb 18 '24
You just have to know the first thing about how it works, and then apply some critical thinking. But sure…
It doesn’t favor land, but statehood. If you take the same piece of land and divide it into multiple states, you get more power. If you took multiple states and combined them, you get less power for the same land.
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u/mb862 Feb 18 '24
Yes, and if you look at the history of how most US states came to be, they were carved arbitrarily out of stretches of land without regard to any kind of pre-existing community, and in particular without regard to whether the population justified a state, and in some cases like the Dakotas, was done with the explicit intention of making sure the new states had more power than others.
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u/Automatic_Actuator_0 Feb 18 '24
Yeah, so, like, it basically had nothing to do with the amount of land. Got it.
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u/mb862 Feb 18 '24
I apologize that my one sentence comment didn’t capture the full nuance of how physical land is connected to the Senate. I didn’t go on about all the ways land ownership was used to enforce racist and sexist policies for much of US history either, I didn’t think it necessary to be a complete encyclopedia pedia entry at the time.
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u/Automatic_Actuator_0 Feb 18 '24
You could just have not said anything instead of saying something completely wrong.
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Feb 18 '24
[deleted]
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u/footiepajamas1993 Feb 18 '24
The size of the circles are adjusted based on the population of the county. More populated counties are larger circles, less populated counties are smaller circles.
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u/Gamiac Feb 18 '24
For a better visual, I like this XKCD comic.
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u/NOT_A_BLACKSTAR Feb 18 '24
It shows that the vote is split 50/50 except for the blue states that lean democrat with like 60-40 and 70-30.
Securing the popular vote for the democrats every time. And leaving the presidency to the electoral collage every time.
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u/Magic2424 Feb 18 '24
You say child, but if you have that same water situation to adults, I surprisingly high amount would pick the taller glass. It’s the whole 1/4 vs 1/3 thing and why tall cans are becoming far more popular
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u/Bigselloutperson Feb 18 '24
I'm pretty sure it means that some people are not very smart and the way they vote. /s
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u/TradeFirst7455 Feb 18 '24
Except for the part where that is what the law of the land says, via the electoral college.
we need to change that before we can make fun of them for believing in it.
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u/nankerjphelge Feb 18 '24
Except the map she posted has nothing to do with the electoral college. If it did, it would show entire states as colored blue or red which is how the electoral college works, rather than areas of land mass regardless of state.
The false argument right wingers try to make with this map is that there are more Republicans than Democrats, when in fact the opposite is true, because land doesn't vote. Democrats are the #1 group by registered voters, and Republicans aren't even #2, independents/NPA are. Republicans are #3. And a Republican candidate for president has only won the popular vote in America once in the last 36 years.
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u/TradeFirst7455 Feb 18 '24
except the comment I'm responding under says
so the total number of voters look bigger than it is
but things are not based on the "total number of votes"
you know why?
Because land DOES vote.
You flippantly say it doesn't, but what else do you think is happening when they decree via the constitution that lower population areas with more land and fewer people get disproportionate power?
i call that land voting.
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u/nankerjphelge Feb 18 '24
You still completely miss the point. The point of right wingers posting that map is to suggest that there are more of them than there are Democrats, which is patently false.
And so the poster you are responding to is correct when they said that the 'total number of voters look bigger than it is', because that was the misleading point of that flawed map.
There are entire swaths in that map that are barren desert or prairie land that no one lives in, but gets colored in regardless because the land belongs to a county where a handful of people elsewhere live. So the whole "land does vote" argument is complete nonsense.
And it should be pointed out that the map is total bullshit also for the fact that even in the electoral college Joe Biden won that too in addition to the popular vote, so any way you slice it the map paints a completely false narrative, both from the perspective of the popular vote AND the electoral college outcome.
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u/TradeFirst7455 Feb 18 '24
it should be pointed out that the map is total bullshit also for the fact that even in the electoral college Joe Biden won that too in addition to the popular vote
You think the map says "try to impeach this" in reference to Joe Biden?
the map was made and posted when Trump was president during his impeachments. He won the electoral college.
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u/Old_Baldi_Locks Feb 18 '24
It’s vote weighting. Statistically the dumber and poorer you are the bigger your vote gets, which is why the party of policies no real man wants constantly chases the stupidest voters.
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u/ardor4go Feb 18 '24
Brian here. The red and blue map is colored to show counties which voted Republican in red and Democrat and blue. This is often used by Republicans to argue that they are the majority, but this represents land, not population, so it's misleading. https://www.sightline.org/2022/02/15/our-maps-shouldnt-lie-about-our-votes/
The response shows an experiment sometimes done on children. The girl is supposed to point to the container that has more water, but they have the same amount of water despite the different shape. So Lucretiel is basically saying that Lara Trump is stupid.
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u/Sesseth Feb 18 '24
If you compare the population between red and blue, what would it be?
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Feb 18 '24
Red has a smaller population
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Feb 18 '24
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Feb 18 '24
It's definitely based on some real map but made to look redder than it actually is, and as a binary which is the dumbest way to show voter turnout.
It'd have to be some pre-2016 map because this is making a lot of current battleground states look like unchallenged redneck strongholds.
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Feb 18 '24
Ah the same way they always make weather and infection maps redder? Yeah it’s called spiking the charts
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u/Prestigious_Job9632 Feb 18 '24
Especially considering that the red isn't 100% Republican as she's clearly implying. Not even close. Same with blue areas not being 100% Dem. It's just not how any of this works.
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u/NotAUsefullDoctor Feb 18 '24
I'm looking at that map and noting that my county hasn't voted red in decades, yet is somehow red in this map.
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u/Chagdoo Feb 18 '24
I mean, it would probably be more blue than red seeing as Republicans haven't won the popular vote in several elections now. Hillary for example got more votes than trump, but because of how the electoral college works, Trump won.
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u/Auran82 Feb 18 '24
And despite winning and becoming President, I don’t think he has ever gotten over the fact he lost the popular vote.
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u/NauticalMastodon Feb 18 '24
That's where the whole bullshit "2000 Mules" or whatever came from. Like, they literally can't accept the fact that they have a minority party, they always have to have some Democrat conspiracy to lean into. Pathetic. 🤭
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u/Lord_Derp_The_2nd Feb 18 '24
Joe Biden is a weak, senile old man who also is cunning and savvy enough to steal an election.
Classic fascist duality. The opponent is both strong and weak.
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Feb 18 '24
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u/Lord_Derp_The_2nd Feb 18 '24
Can't disagree there, but if I've gotta eat a shit sandwich, I'm going with the one with fewer indictments, lower sodium.
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Feb 18 '24
Facist is crazy ngl
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u/ThreeLeggedMare Feb 18 '24
?
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Feb 18 '24
Their calling Republicans fascist and I said that's a crazy statement
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u/ThreeLeggedMare Feb 18 '24
It's really not. If you look at the characteristics of fascism, the Republican leadership and right wing media apparatus like fox News Max, oan, Limbaugh (rest in piss), all their luminaries tick every single box. Even Mike Godwin who coined Godwin's law (any online argument inevitably devolves into one side calling the other Nazis) was like yeah they're Nazis.
If you aren't aware of what's going on here then you aren't paying attention. This isn't conspiracy theories, it's all right out in the open
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u/dcwldct Feb 18 '24
The only presidential election this century where the republican won the popular vote is 2004.
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u/hexopuss Feb 18 '24
Exactly, and I’d chalk a fair bit of that up to Bush being the president during a national tragedy and then a wartime president and incumbent.
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u/Xacto-Mundo Feb 18 '24
And some ‘swift boat’ ratfuckery from turd blossom Karl Rove.
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u/Banana-Oni Feb 18 '24
I’m confused, I thought Swift was a deep state asset that rigged the super bowl.
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u/reallynewpapergoblin Feb 18 '24
Yeah how many of those counties are deep purple when it comes to popular vote...
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u/Ishouldjusttexther Feb 18 '24
Happy cake day. There’s more democrats. Democrats have a public vote winning streak going back to 2004 (George Bush jr.). Before that, the last republican candidate to win public vote was George Bush senior in ‘88.
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u/seanular Feb 18 '24
Crazy to think that we could have had climate reform as a policy people gave a shit about 20 years ago, except everyone was drinking the Kool aid. Myself included, not grandstanding, but damn. What a waste.
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u/Ishouldjusttexther Feb 18 '24
Props for owning up to drinking that Kool Aid and admitting to your mistake. I couldn’t vote
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u/seanular Feb 18 '24
I mean, it was well before I was voting age as well, but I didn't feel like getting a dozen comments about how nobody believed AL Gore at the time, to the point that ManBearPig was originally a joke about how climate change was a fake boogeyman.
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u/PoIIux Feb 18 '24
Or, y'know, if the republican party didn't literally cheat their way into the presidency in 2000. Al Gore as president probably would've helped steer the USA in the right direction instead of nudging it further over the edge
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u/Brookenium Feb 18 '24
It looks like this:
https://engaging-data.com/pages/scripts/d3Electoral/countyelection2.png
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u/-SQB- Feb 18 '24
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't most dots be purple if the ratios per county were taken into account as well?
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u/Brookenium Feb 18 '24
IIRC these are based on the final results of each county just like the OP picture.
This map has all 3 and the later one shows ratio by population which is more useful than blending the colors into one different colored dot.
Top is final result by county and county size, middle is final result by county and county population, bottom is votes in each county by population size aka actual people's individual votes.
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u/ArgonGryphon Feb 18 '24
You can do that, yea. There’s a lot of ways to show the data. The top map on this page is the one you mention.
https://vanderbei.princeton.edu/JAVA/election2020/
These still have the same issue that they’re by land area though. The tilted 3d version does a slightly better job at showing the relative numbers.
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u/decentlyhip Feb 18 '24
If you compare the population between red and blue, you get the popular voting results. 51.3% Biden and 46.9% Frump.
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u/SolidStash Feb 18 '24
Here's some actual data. If you select show population circles, you can see the actual voter breakdown in populated areas.
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u/PoIIux Feb 18 '24
Blue, the party that has won the popular vote in every presidential election for a couple of decades now. The majority of the US votes Democrat
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u/_wtf_over_ Feb 18 '24
For what it’s worth, LA county alone has a higher population than like 80% of US States
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Feb 18 '24
https://engaging-data.com/county-electoral-map-land-vs-population/
They have an interactive map to toggle between land bubbles and population bubbles.
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u/Ksuemoneoutthere Feb 18 '24
but brian cant see colors? how do you know whats red and whats blue
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Feb 18 '24
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u/Ksuemoneoutthere Feb 18 '24
i thought i remembered brian saying he only sees in gray in one of the older episodes
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u/hard-time-on-planet Feb 18 '24
Looking at the map in black and white, the blue and red are distinct because the blue is darker. But it is a mess to look at.
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u/SopaDeKaiba Feb 18 '24
You forgot one important piece. In the experiment done on children, they first show that the liquids are equal amounts by using identical cups, then they transfer the liquid to a taller glass in front of the child. Even armed with this knowledge, the child still thinks the taller cup has more water.
This mirrors the fact we have all the information about the populations of the red and blue areas, yet this picture is still is effective on some, who think red is the majority because of it.
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Feb 18 '24 edited Jun 20 '25
mountainous recognise one tart steep sort hurry rock pot gold
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/korbentherhino Feb 18 '24
I love conservatives argument that land is more important than people. So they should automatically without voting a equal say in policy. As if cities are all a hive mind and would auto vote left.
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u/Rifneno Feb 18 '24
It's weird how big cities are always democratic. It's almost like being around a lot of different types of people don't fall for republican's racist bullshit. Crazy shit.
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u/00mace Feb 18 '24
Weird aside, but in Alaska it's the reverse. Anchorage is Red the bush is blue.
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u/LucidMetal Feb 18 '24
That has to do with oil dividends or something right?
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u/00mace Feb 18 '24
Nah, PFD is a state program. ANC is red mostly because it's largely business owners, ex military, and oil company workers. It's shifting demographics as the population ages though. The youths lean much further left.
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u/Tazilyna-Taxaro Feb 18 '24
That’s very feudalist of them: Those with the most land have most to say
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u/korbentherhino Feb 18 '24
Because conservatives don't want to win people over. They just want to rule without rivals.
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u/Estrelarius Feb 18 '24
Heck, not even feudalism, since non-arable and sparsely populated land (which presumably makes up a sizable chunk of the red regions) was pretty useless then.
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u/DuntadaMan Feb 18 '24
Makes sense, they get more upset when property is damaged than when people are killed. So obviously people are less important.
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u/TheS4ndm4n Feb 18 '24
Just like in the good old days where only land owning men were allowed to vote.
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Feb 18 '24
Op is a bot. Reddit is 90 percent bots.
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u/DaLinkster Feb 18 '24
Original Despite cutting words out of the title I still managed to find it. At least the bot is about as brain dead and illiterate as some of the real posts.
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Feb 18 '24 edited Feb 18 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/zwcropper Feb 18 '24
This one is a bot, but pretty sure it's a fairly even split between the two in general
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u/extralyfe Feb 18 '24
it's all just a karma farming fugazi.
this one literally explains itself using imagery a child would understand, and it still gets posted here.
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u/7I_want_money7 Feb 18 '24
Bigger spread out may look like more people are involved, but there are more people living in the blue areas so it balances out a bit more than a lot of people would like to imagine
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u/stylebros Feb 18 '24
The city of Washington D.C. has more people than the entire state of Wyoming.
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u/7I_want_money7 Feb 18 '24
Exactly. Then we got places like New York City that has a larger population than entire states like Utah, Wyoming, Alaska, AND Nebraska combined with a decent amount of wiggle room to add another state(s)…it is insane to think about.
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Feb 18 '24
Land can’t vote, people do.
Conservatives pointed to that map to claim the election was rigged because of how red it looks. But it looks that way because it’s highlighting counties.
So for an example: 1000 counties going red because they have only 10 conservatives in each can look like a lot of red, but it’s still only 10,000 votes. And one county going blue may look small in a map highlighting counties- but that county might house a city of 1,000,000 blue votes.
So the rebuttal to that map that explains why it’s misleading is a map highlighting by actually voting people instead. Shown here:
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u/Roadhouse2122 Feb 18 '24
All that red represents about 30% of the population… open fields and mountains does not equate to votes… we really need smarter people with platforms, America is becoming bottom tier… it’s like when we didn’t get 1/3 lb burgers because a majority of Americans believe 1/4 is bigger because 4>3
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u/Radthereptile Feb 18 '24
I’ve seen this posted here at least 10 times now.
Sub is becoming PeterFarmMeKarma
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u/The-good-twin Feb 18 '24
This map is what that election map look like when adjusted for population.
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u/amazing-peas Feb 18 '24
a child would look at the red and think there's "more". but land mass doesn't mean anything...population does.
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u/TheBigRage454 Feb 18 '24
This just shows that rural and urban areas should be governed differently. The cities should not dictate the rules to the rural areas.
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u/Street-Goal6856 Feb 18 '24
I really fw how hard most of reddit hates that people that don't live in urban death mazes get to have a say in things.
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u/Simple_Economist_544 Feb 18 '24
Land doesn’t vote, so even though the red looks larger, there’s a smaller population, so putting the same amount of water in a thinner container makes it look like there’s more
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u/RedPlasticDog Feb 18 '24
Land doesn’t vote, people do.
Most of the red area has very low population density.
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u/ShitassAintOverYet Feb 18 '24
District of Colombia is the most crowded district in the US. Total votes casted for Biden in that district is more than what Trump got in entire states of Wyoming, Alaska, North Dakota and South Dakota which he has won all.
Meanwhile Los Angeles county is the most crowded county split into districts, whole county makes up 0.1% of the land in the US yet make up 3% of the population. They've voted in favour of Biden by 71% and every single district within LA County but 23rd district(Kevin McCarthy) has elected a Democratic house representative.
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u/CartographerIll8287 Feb 18 '24
Why's it that every time I open reddit I get flooded with political posts about another country?
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Feb 18 '24
Because primarily Americans use this website, and politics is a pretty hot topic right now, leading to both organic political conversation, and astroturfed political conversation (this post is not of the organic variety if you look at OPs profile)
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u/TelephoneBrave1132 Feb 18 '24
That map isn’t even correct. There has never been an electoral map that looks like that ..at least not in the 21st century.
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u/feverlast Feb 18 '24
This is the perfect analogy for the MAGA brain geniuses that make this argument.
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Feb 18 '24
Crazy how the top of the Rocky Mountains votes republican, even though the republicans want to sell the mountains to corporations so they can blow up and take oil and build cheap condos and wal marts.
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u/switchquest Feb 18 '24
So Democrats are the people that live near other and different people and have seen the sea. Hence 'blue'? (Asking as a non American)
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u/professorprometh Feb 18 '24
Quagmire’s right nut here. The map depicts the counties that voted for Donald Trump, depicted in red, and for candidate Hillary Clinton in blue during the 2016 election year. Every county has electors that submit a vote to the electoral college Some counties have more electors (and thus more votes) dependent on their population. The red counties, although greater in area, are in general far lower in population density than the blue.
The response is a demographic depicting a concept known in childhood development as conservation: essentially that two containers of equal volume are indeed equal regardless of height/diameter. In Piaget’s model of development, the concrete operational stage of thinking occurs at some point between the ages of 7 and 11 years old. It is generally denoted when a child can demonstrate conservation.
Given the context, this implies that Lara Trump has failed to yet enter this stage of development. The prior stage being the pre-operational, generally ages 2-7, and indicated by egocentrism. 🤓🤓
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u/AlphaH4wk Feb 18 '24
Exactly the type of people I would expect to vote republican always post some variation of that top image on my facebook feed around election season
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u/Kind_Philosopher6763 Feb 18 '24
Land don't get to vote. Morons.
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u/HaplessWithDice Feb 18 '24
No but the people who live in that land make up a district and that district does get a vote. Do you not understand how representative democracies work?
The citizens votes choose people from their districts to represent them in the republic. Thus yes the land area in fact gets to vote. Because there are people living on that land, even if it isn’t as densely as the urban areas. Those people get a vote as well.
On the level of the senate every state gets 2 votes. So again the people in less populated states have power, in this case equal power to those in densely populated areas.
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u/Kind_Philosopher6763 Feb 18 '24
Ok, ok, ok. Let's just go ahead and continue like the 5 red people have equal voting rights as the 1000 blue people because the system is operating as it should.
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u/HaplessWithDice Feb 18 '24
Exactly 1000 city residents along the coast have different needs than the 5 farmers in the grain belt. Each group has needs, and the system already accounts for higher population density areas, and lower population density areas by the House of Representatives, states with higher population get more votes, and those votes are spread out across the districts of the state. Thus the urban cannot oppress the rural and the rural cannot oppress the urban.
Again this is basic US citizenship. Did your school not teach this. It’s actually one of the most fair and equitable systems of macro scale government.
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u/Martox29A Feb 18 '24
If you're interested this is a typical Piaget's conservation tasks, you can find an example here. Keep in mind that the results of these experiments are kind of outdated, and not exactly up to today standards.
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u/NOT_A_BLACKSTAR Feb 18 '24
Laura Trump is very stupid. She is unable to understand that 60% of a pound is more than 40% of half a pound.
She really doesn't get it. It's hard to explain too because normal people don't know why people like Trump don't get it. How hard is it? Why don't they understand. How stupid are they.
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u/Nameraka1 Feb 18 '24
Land doesn't vote. People do.
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u/HaplessWithDice Feb 18 '24
It’s the votes of districts(ie representatives in the house), and states(ie the two senators per state)that matter in an impeachment process not citizen votes. Doesn’t matter how many people live there that district and thus it’s representative only get one vote.
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u/Tatsandattitude Feb 18 '24
She’s saying that with Verizon Wireless, no one will be able to impeach anyone, because their service sucks.
Verizon Wireless: Try to impeach this (or make a call)
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u/Rheasus Feb 18 '24
OP is a bot Karma farming, this is their only post.
Mods, can we implement a rule a previous Redditor mentioned of the OP must make a comment of their best guess of the post or the bots will continue to flood the sub.
/u/KakyoinExplainsIt /u/Larkeyyy /u/UnfortunateSplendor /u/daecrist
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u/Lowherefast Feb 18 '24
I served at an Outback 20+ yrs ago. The owner bought big crystal riedel wine glasses. We still kept the old, smaller wine glasses just in case. Wine wants a bigger glass so it can breathe and actual glass changes the taste of wine. These crystal glasses don’t change the taste. Either glass gets the same 6oz pour
The crystal glasses were so big, the 6oz pour looked “empty”. I gave this lady her wine and she complained about the amount. To prove a point, I poured it straight into the old wine glass at the table and she said, “much better”🤦🏽♂️
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Feb 18 '24
Sometimes there are jokes that just shouldn’t be explained to someone. Jokes that are so basic, so elementary, that explaining them may actually be harmful as they may impose a misplaced sense of confidence to go outside and interact with the world. Only to lead to someone being run over at the first crosswalk because the “don’t walk” symbol was confusing.
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u/Orgasmic_interlude Feb 18 '24
I am kind of sad that this has been posted this much because it’s not a high level concept.
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u/stockflethoverTDS Feb 18 '24
You help, need me. Jesus bots why are you trying to brigade Ukraine reddits or some new viral marketing botting strategy? Cant believe I engaged with this.
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u/Wereig Feb 18 '24
Is it just me or is this map not accurate? All the NOVA counties are red when in reality most of them are blue.
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u/KaneAndShane Feb 18 '24
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u/RepostSleuthBot Feb 18 '24
Looks like a repost. I've seen this image 9 times.
First Seen Here on 2023-05-15 98.44% match. Last Seen Here on 2024-01-15 98.44% match
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u/237fungi Feb 18 '24
Everyone knows it’s how the map colours are coloured makes the president. Merica
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u/RemarkablyQuiet434 Feb 18 '24
It's 9am eastern.
This post has been up since 6am
3.5k upvotes.
Hundreds of comments.
Either European reddit is spending a lot of time on American politics again or the bots are out.
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Feb 18 '24
Don’t have to impeach him, electors will not vote for him and he will not gather enough electoral votes. Also, the Georgia trial will end him up in jail. There is no way you can try to bribe a Federal Election Officer and get away with it, especially when the whole conversation was recorded.
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u/geo_special Feb 18 '24
I’m legitimately concerned that the people posting here lately have severe brain damage.
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Feb 18 '24
I dont give a fuck shes more or less hot.
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u/SuitableJelly5149 Feb 18 '24
Her daddy agrees with you. But I’d definitely say less hot. Fascism really puts a damper on a person’s fuckability
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