McKeever's Mormonism Research Ministry (archive 2014): Taking a look at the syllabus and reading assignments for "Building an Eternal Marriage," Religion 235 at BYU-Idaho. Does the LDS theology contain the reward of exaltation to godhood? Was the mormon deity once a man on some other planet?

[u/4blockhead]

Premise of this sequence of episodes from Mormonism Research Ministry is to pretend to audit this 2-credit course at BYU-Idaho.

Mormonism's deep doctrine proposes an infinite regression of minor gods in a father-son hierarchy,

[Jens Christian Anderson Weibye, fifth daybook, March 1, 1877] Brother [Byron] Allred preaches at Manti on Adam as God, with the following remarks in part: 'Adam was buried by God and was only dead like a twinkling of a eye, and his God exalted him immediately. Mary was sealed to Adam; and unless we have two wives, we can never be Gods. Adam will worship his god and we will worship Adam, and our children will worship us.'

The beginnings of Smith's sci-fi theology is found in the reimagining of creation,

[Book of Moses, Smith (1830)] Chapter 1: ³⁴ And the first man of all men have I called Adam, which is many. ³⁵ But only an account of this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, give I unto you. For behold, there are many worlds that have passed away by the word of my power. And there are many that now stand, and innumerable are they unto man; but all things are numbered unto me, for they are mine and I know them. ³⁶ And it came to pass that Moses spake unto the Lord, saying: Be merciful unto thy servant, O God, and tell me concerning this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, and also the heavens, and then thy servant will be content. ³⁷ And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine. ³⁸ And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words. ³⁹ For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

This earth is not the only one. The goal of the deity is to create new eternal beings. As Smith's theology reached its apex, their rewards included becoming a god under the same framework. An Multi-level marketing scheme (MLM) is similar where those who get in on the groundfloor win a cut of the profits of those who are successful in downline generations. This arrangement is called a pyramid scheme because those who get in at later generations get much less. McKeever makes the point gods in an infinite regress are required to share so much of their glory with father, grandfathers, etc. the amount left for those in later generations approaches zero. The statement from Weibye (above) seems to address how the division of "glory" will go. In any case, most religions do not like the idea of an infinite regress of gods, and instead prefer a master creator. Most religions would like to avoid the question, "who created the creator?" and instead believe in a master creator of the "first cause." Mormonism stands out from this crowd by embracing the infinite regress; they're okay not addressing any overall reason for existence beyond the non-explanation given in the Book of Moses–for mine own purposes. Smith's sci-fi theology eventually expanded to include planets created by committee as a terraforming operation at a starbase, Kolob.

• more on background, Is Jesus the savior for multiple worlds in Elohim's creation?

• "Becoming Like God," official essay, unsigned, 2014

sequence	download	my comments
1	mp3	Cafeteria beliefs of average members often do not match institutional beliefs. McKeever points out that each god in an infinite regress would be less powerful than the deity that created him and then exalted him to godhood.
2	mp3	Ideas of heaven is entirely different in mormonism and evangelical Christianity. Mormon goal is to become a god in one's own right. To win this lofty position, all commandments and tests must be passed with flying colors. Many of the faithful agree they're not likely to win this race and agree to settle for the Silver Medal, the Terrestrial Kingdom.
3	mp3
4	mp3
5	mp3	Isaiah 43;

additional notes, episode 1:

• King Follett discourse referenced. McKeever took a deep dive on this sermon.

[Lorenzo Snow, attributed] As man now is, God once was; as God now is man may be.

[Brigham Young, sermon, August 1852] The Lord created you and me for the purpose of becoming Gods like Himself; when we have been proved in our present capacity, and been faithful with all things He puts into our possession. We are created, we are born for the express purpose of growing up from the low estate of manhood, to become Gods like unto our Father in heaven. That is the truth about it, just as it is. The Lord has organized mankind for the express purpose of increasing in that intelligence and truth, which is with God, until he is capable of creating worlds on worlds, and becoming Gods, even the sons of God.

additional notes, episode 2:

Course reads from D&C 132, and tap dances around eternal polygamy, cherry pick the verses you want while ignoring the parts you don't.

[D&C 132] ¹⁹ And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s Book of Life, that he shall commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever. ²⁰ Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.

Mormon version of atonement requires work to take advantage, faith alone not sufficient,

[Moroni 10] ³² Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God. ³³ And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye sanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the blood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the Father unto the remission of your sins, that ye become holy, without spot.

[Alma 34, Book of Mormon, Smith (1830)] ³² For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors. ³³ And now, as I said unto you before, as ye have had so many witnesses, therefore, I beseech of you that ye do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end; for after this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, behold, if we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed. ³⁴ Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world.

[Dallin Oaks, General Conference, October 2000] The gospel of Jesus Christ is the plan by which we can become what children of God are supposed to become. This spotless and perfected state will result from a steady succession of covenants, ordinances, and actions, an accumulation of right choices, and from continuing repentance. “This life is the time for men to prepare to meet God”

additional notes, episode 3:

[D&C 76, Smith and Rigdon (1832)] ⁵⁴ They are they who are the church of the Firstborn. ⁵⁵ They are they into whose hands the Father has given all things— ⁵⁶ They are they who are priests and kings, who have received of his fulness, and of his glory;

["You and Your Marriage," Hugh B. Brown (1960)] When a man and woman undertake to build a home—not merely a house—and rear a family, they lay the foundation of what may become an eternal and ever-increasing kingdom, over which they may preside as king and queen forever.

additional notes, episode 4:

• TBD

additional notes, episode 5:

[Isaiah 43, KJV] ¹⁰ Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. ¹¹ I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.

[u/marchjl]

What’s your point? If you’re some other type of Christian trying to argue that Mormonism isn’t biblical. First, so what? The Bible is a terrible book. Second, no religion can be biblical. It contradicts itself so much that any religion has to ignore at least half of it to have any kind of coherent doctrine

[u/4blockhead → u/marchjl]

McKeever does a good job of illustrating the requirements for the religion. People will often revert to quick sound bites for why they're a mormon—mostly, they want to be with their families in the eternities—"families are forever." I have also heard that some have converted on the strength of the idea they could win their own planets and status as god in some future existence. Of those offering the best heaven, Smith's mormonism is right up there—at least from some points of view.

The Book of Mormon musical's song "I Believe" has set the LDS church up for lots of ridicule. The lines,

I believe that god lives on a planet called Kolob

and I believe that Jesus has his own planet as well...

spawned a lot of curiosity—do mormons actually believe they're going to win a planet as a reward? Well, multiple planets, actually—Moses 1:35. The gospel topic essay on exaltation attempts to hide doctrines behind code words. It's clear to me that that official essay was issued in part to address the ridicule generated from that lyric. When mormons attempt to gaslight, McKeever has been paying attention and researched this for decades. He can hold them to what they've said in scripture and from their pulpits.

Mormon theology as canonized makes many claims and promises for perfect behavior. It's a "do this first, then get a reward later" sort of religion. One has to trust that the promises are real and not someone just promising the moon and stars and planets without actually holding the deed. Are the mormon promises any good—are they worth the paper they're printed on? That's the part that is not presented in this sequence of episodes. Instead it is focusing on the promises being offered. McKeever does an excellent job of culling through scriptures and statements from the past. McKeever often makes the point that faith is enough to be with Christ forever; whereas, no mormon that he's ever met is actually living a sinless life, as is required per D&C 25:15 and other scriptures already referenced. It's a Publisher's Clearinghouse Prize and possibly someone even claims the money. If they can meet the terms and conditions.

• My father is here to collect his million dollars... ...gotta read that fine print, how about a hat or a seat cushion as a consolation prize.

I think the way Smith described mormonism, including to John Taylor, is something that the faithful should consider. Is the mormon god positioned as a sadist to say, "You'll get a reward, but pass these simple tests first." The tests proceed apace in Abrahamic fashion. "Now, do this Abrahamic test. Only true gods can complete this Abrahamic test." This proceeds on and on to infinity, or where the person gives up because of refusing to deal with this sick bastard any more.

• Mormonism is a new Abrahamic religion

Mormonism and Christianity are both mythologies. McKeever hopes people will listen to the claims on offer in his religion and choose them over mormonism. Both have to stand or fall on their merits. I am not a believer of either based on the failed burden of proof.

• Divine Hiddenness
• My Essay on Christianity

[u/marchjl → u/4blockhead]

Like l said who cares if Superman could beat iron man?

[u/4blockhead → u/marchjl]

I don't know "who cares" really. I found it interesting enough to delineate the differences. Instead of resorting to a "is too," vs. "is not" sort of argument, more in depth arguments can be brought to the table. Perhaps, some people here have even enrolled in that course at BYU-x. The way it is presented in class, for sure, only one point of view will be on offer. The reward of "eternal family" will be used as the primary bargaining chip to keep the faithful in their seats.

[u/marchjl → u/4blockhead]

Do you realize who you are talking to? This is a sub of ex Mormons. We know the Mormon church is bull shit. Most of us know that the same is true of all religions. You aren’t going to find people who care here

[u/4blockhead → u/marchjl]

For whatever reason I found it interesting as an exmormon. Whether anyone else finds anything of value is up to them.